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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2057
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 4:01 pm: | 
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Hi guys,
I know me of all people actually starting a new diary world thread. What's wrong with my? (thats not what I meant by questions BTW)
It occurs to me Diary World (as we call it for some reason) is bringing out the worse in us.
I mean do we have to be so rude to each other all the time(naturally I do like hugging armchairs and burning books but still?)
I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, (don't tell anyone it's bad for me you'll all get me in trouble), anyway where was I yes, sitting here and i'm thinking, why am i here, why are we here. And at the end of the day don't we want the same things. Wouldn't it be more productive if we were just a little bit nicer to each other?
I mean i don't expect miracles but
I just want to know who wrote this smegging diary and scratched this smegging watch!!!!!
THERE'S NO NEED TO SHOUT!!!!
that said feel free to tell me to shut the f*ck up and get a grip.
See you tommorow it's time for No Angels!
Jenni
"All you need is positivity"
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Sir Robert Anderson
Inspector
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 291
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 5:18 pm: |
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"Wouldn't it be more productive if we were just a little bit nicer to each other?"
There is definitely something nasty in the waters at Camp Diary.
And speaking of productivity...none of the regular posters puts forth Maybrick as a serious Ripper suspect, yet take a look at Maybrick's ranking in the polls at our very own Casebook:
http://www.casebook.org/suspects/suspect_av.html
I'd argue prima facie that shows the "discussion" here doesn't seem to carry very much weight with the masses. So how productive are we, carrying on the way we do?
Not very.
Sir Robert
"I only thought I knew"
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 803
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 5:24 pm: |
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Sir Robert,
My friend, how do you know that I haven't spent all day voting for James Maybrick over and over?
I agree that there is something nasty in the waters, though. So I'm going to do my best to bid Diaryland adieu. Just let me get my ruby slippers on. . .they're so tight.
There's no place like home. . .
There's no place like home. . .
There's no place like home. . .
Cheers,
Dave |
Chris Phillips
Chief Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 781
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 5:50 pm: |
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Oz - what a thought!
I shall be lying awake now trying to work out who's Dorothy, who's the Tin Man ("no heart, no heart ..."), who's the Cowardly Lion, who's the Scarecrow, who's the Wicked Witch, and who's the Wizard, hiding behind his scientific apparatus ...
Chris Phillips
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John V. Omlor
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 1251
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 5:52 pm: |
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David,
Have a safe journey back to the other side of the rainbow.
And take that yapping little dog Toto, too.
-- John
PS: The problem with the water here is because DW was built on a swamp.
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John V. Omlor
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 1252
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 6:00 pm: |
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Chris,
I wanna be a flying monkey. They were SO cool.
--John |
Donald Souden
Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 483
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 10:08 pm: |
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Jenni,
Nice thoughts, but -- ahem! -- shouldn't you be writing some things for the real world?
Yeah, go ahead, tell me it's none of my business. 
Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
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Carolyn
Sergeant
Username: Carolyn
Post Number: 39
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 11:38 pm: |
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Jenni,
I have just started reading some of the diary threads and yes, they do become a little hostile. Maybe it is because the people for the diary are so staunch in their beliefs. There is no room for either side to give. Unfortunately it does give way to heated emotional arguments, and because there is no proof either way the debates will continue.
Chris,
I can come up with a cast of characters but maybe that is better left to the insult thread!!!
Carolyn |
Alan Sharp
Chief Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 807
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 9:00 am: |
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Jenni
My best answer would be this. If you look at history, many of the bloodiest religious wars have been fought not between opposing religions, but between opposing factions of the same religion.
And in diary-world, people tend to be painted black and white, pro-diary or anti-diary. But the truth of course is that there are remarkably few pro-diary people posting here. The majority of those painted with the pro-diary brush are actually what I would call for want of a better term "diary agnostic".
I place myself firmly in that category. I, along with Sir Robert and several others, make absolutely no bones about the fact that we don't believe for one single solitary second that the diary was written by James Maybrick. But we would like the latitude to discuss who it was written by, where it might have come from, what might have been its original purpose, and we are not prepared to toe the "party line" on these subjects.
And so what you end up with is arguments not between people with opposing views, but between people who hold very similar but not quite identical views. Which brings me right back to the first sentence of this post.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me" - Hunter S. Thompson (1939-2005)
Visit my website - http://www.ashbooks.co.uk/
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2060
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 9:15 am: |
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Don,
not at ten o clock at night!!
its 3,340 words long and all of them rubbish (that is the essay from hell) but i divert!
Alan,
yes - very few people are firm pro diary - Feldy perhaps, and er, so on.
theres nothing wrong with being a diary agnostic, a diary antagonist (as i read it first time round!) that would be a different story!!
of course you are right about diary world in what you say. it is the nuts the bolts of the situation (how many times me and John argue about that damn library for eg!!)
Anyway,
as you were
Jenni
"All you need is positivity"
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John V. Omlor
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 1255
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 9:52 am: |
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Just for the record,
I, for one, have never called any diary agnostic "pro-diary." There used to be a pro-diary poster or two here regularly (Peter Wood in the old days and that mysterious Tiddley guy) but they went the way of the dinosaurs.
Alan is right that most people around here do not believe for one second that the real James wrote this book or killed these women.
In fact, I can't think of a single regular poster who does believe that. If there are any, perhaps this would be a good place for them to come forward and we could use Jenni's thread idea here as a place to hear them out.
As for when the hoax was created, well, that's another issue and one that's not really all that important but sure is fun to argue about.
Where happy little bluebirds fly,
--John |
Ally
Chief Inspector
Username: Ally
Post Number: 864
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 10:58 am: |
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Oh please...I am so definitely the Wicked Witch of the West. I look MARVY in green. Although the wardrobe leaves something to be desired. I'd have to off Glenda and steal her crown...
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1615
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 6:19 am: |
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Hi Carolyn,
Maybe it is because the people for the diary are so staunch in their beliefs.
But who posts here on a regular basis who is 'for' the diary and expresses beliefs about its origins that appear fixed in stone?
Paul Feldman has never, to my knowledge, joined in the discussions here.
If you read on, I think you will find that the only regular posters who will never consider for one second changing their minds are those who have concluded that the diary and watch could not have been created ealier than 1989 and 1993 respectively.
I do want to respond to Jenni's plea and try to keep a civil tongue if I have offended any individual posters in the past.
No one has offended me - yet. If someone wants to take offence, they will always find something on these boards to be offended about.
Love,
Caz
X |
John V. Omlor
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 1267
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 7:08 am: |
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Jenni,
Just before she mentions the spirit of this thread and says she wants to be civil in her post above, Caroline writes:
"If you read on, I think you will find that the only regular posters who will never consider for one second changing their minds are those who have concluded that the diary and watch could not have been created ealier than 1989 and 1993 respectively."
Still, it was a good try on your part.
For the record, if I ever saw any real evidence that said the diary was written in anything but modern times, I'd certainly consider for one second changing my mind.
So, I suspect, would everyone else here.
Too bad this claim was made on this thread,
--John
(Message edited by omlor on March 31, 2005) |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2067
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 7:28 am: |
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Hi,
I myself am a narrow minded arm chair hugging book burning idiot, who is partial to pulling the wings off all manner of insects. its true, i'm a lot of things. i do sound quite offended but i doubt i am.
now I would ask if anyone had concluded that when they use the word modern? in would mention that its not about changing your mind and i would say i dont care if people do change their minds i've changed mine on several occasions but i wouldn't want to be a Hypocrite now would i?
Jenni
ps Victoria Wood is a dinner lady i am not!
"All you need is positivity"
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2246
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 7:41 am: |
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Jenni
Thank God for that the world needs dinner ladies...............as the Divine Jamie has proved.......without em we'd all be sitting here talking about rubbish like Diddles being a suspect!!!! Lord Help us!!!!
Carry on Jenni!!!
Suzix |
Restless Spirit
Sergeant
Username: Judyj
Post Number: 47
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 1:52 pm: |
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Hi All
For what it is worth, when I read the book the the Diary, I felt that it was well written and had me almost convinced that he was/is the Ripper.What a great suspect he made, I thought, not what anyone of us would have suspected, apart from the norm etc,etc,
However something bothered me a great deal, the why. Not why kill but why write it down. Jack was either very smart or very lucky. He was able to dodge the police and fool the whole of England.He sure as hell made good his getaways or was he standing right there when the police arrived acting as an onlooker only, was he a cop and so on? But whatever he was he sure gave me the impression that he did not intend to get caught, based on my information on J t R, limited as compared to many of you I am sure.
So why write it down in a diary, I could handle him sending letters to taunt (if he did) and I do believe he did, but write it in a diary of your own, sounds careless to me.
I actually thought that the Diary was possibly written by the ripper but not James Maybrick. I like his brother Michael better than James. Who knows?
Just my opinion.
all the best
Restless Spirit
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John V. Omlor
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 1271
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 3:50 pm: |
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Hi RS,
Thanks for those thoughts. We need more people to offer such positions concerning who might have written the diary so we can discuss them. They aren't offered here very often.
I do have one question, though. Do you have any evidence that Michael could have been the Ripper or that the diary was in any way ever anywhere near either Michael or the real James?
If so, I'd love to see it and it would certainly add to what we already know.
Thanks again for joining the fray. It was a welcome bit of freshness.
All the best,
--John
PS: Your phrase "well written" is interesting. It has always struck me that the diary reads like a cheap melodramatic novel, complete with easily recognizable rising action, climax, falling action, the perfect exposition moment at the beginning (even though it's supposed to be starting in the random middle it conveniently tells us all we need to know on the very first page), a clear battle drawn up between a single good guy and a single bad guy (the killer vs. Abberline) and an over-the-top melodramatic and even prophetic conclusion complete with death scene and final curtain and signature bow. In short it reads as if it were consciously created, planned out, a set-piece, completely contrived and perhaps even composed over a fairly short period of time. I do this for a living (read and analyze written texts) and have a couple of graduate degrees in it and I know the conventional style of formulaic genre fiction when I see it. And this is it. That's why I'm amazed that anyone bought it in the first place. It doesn't have any of the random and immediate qualities of a daily lived life and the details about the murders are sketchy at best and just wrong at worst. But I suppose others can read it differently, that's for sure.
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1618
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 4:37 am: |
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Hi John,
For the record, if I ever saw any real evidence that said the diary was written in anything but modern times, I'd certainly consider for one second changing my mind.
You don't consider Alec Voller's evidence real, for example, do you? You have convinced yourself that he was plain wrong to believe the ink had been on the paper for 90+ years. So excuse me for wondering why you would reconsider if any future scientific opinions happened to endorse Voller's.
I'm quite prepared to accept the modern hoax scenario as the least unlikely if it turns out that the diary ink has been bronzing away like mad over the last decade.
What will your reaction be, I wonder, if the verdict is no discernible change?
We'll see, won't we?
Have a great weekend all.
Love,
Caz
X |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2069
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 4:55 am: |
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what he'd just say??
Jenni
"All you need is positivity"
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John V. Omlor
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 1276
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 5:49 am: |
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Caroline,
When expert scientific testimony is directly conflicted by other expert scientific testimony I think it's impossible to determine, until the conflicts are objectively resolved through further investigation, which of the testimony should be considered real enough to change one's mind.
That's exactly why I have been calling for those conflicts concerning the ink to be resolved through further state of the art testing and analysis.
Thanks for the opportunity to demonstrate how such a resolution might be useful.
With appreciation,
--John |
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