| Author |
Message |
    
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1729
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 4:22 pm: | 
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I'm told that DVT is a complaint which sometimes afflicts people on long haul flights. It comes of sitting in one place too long.
I believe it can also afflict Ken Dodd fans, owing to his act overrunning!
Robert |
AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 663
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 4:22 pm: |
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Thanks Richard
It is very difficult to actually imagine meeting the folks who post here, in the flesh so to speak, but I will wear something just for modesty.
I've been led to believe that my canoe will be quite safe parked up on the nudist beach at Brighton. |
AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 664
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 4:26 pm: |
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Sorry Robert
perhaps I didn't make myself clear in the first post. It was the DT's that got me not the DVT's.
Those giant pink hamsters were rampant in first class. |
D N Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 8:21 am: |
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Hi all
Just a quick comment on Cutbush
When given four possible suspects for the identity of Jack the Ripper, who would fit the bill?
1. A man known to be Insane. To eat from the gutter. A man not known for his violent tendencies.
2. A man known to be a fraudster. A common thief and a liar. A man who was more handy with a revolver than a knife.
3. A teacher. A man who wasn't known to be violent. A man who could possibly have been insane.
4. A man who was violent. A man who had attacked women with a knife and was convicted of this. A man who the press of the time believed to be a suspect.
When given the choice I think rational thought would point to number 4. (Thomas Cutbush) I cant understand why Macnaghton would say that 1,2 & 3 are more plausible. }
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AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 759
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 11:00 am: |
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I been saying that since I had a dummy in my mouth. I've still got a dummy in my mouth and I'm still saying that.
It is nice to know that someone out there somewhere is able to rationalise Macnaghton's bland statement and also the see the great cracks in it. |
David N Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 12:51 pm: |
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To AP Wolf
I have been interested in Cutbush as a suspect ever since I read your entry in "The Mammoth Book of JTR" and after reading the "Myth" my initial suspicions were confirmed.
I think to date T H Cutbush stands as one of the most likeley of suspects.
Have you ever read "Through the Mists of Time" by Peter Hodgson ? In this book Cutbush is named as the killer.
I dont know if the following has been mentioned before or not, but I came across something interesting recently: I read that in Macnaghten's first draft of the Memoranda it mentioned three suspects: a Polish tanner or cobbler; a man who went aroung stabbing young girls in the bottom , and M J Druitt.
The second man named must have been Cutbush or Colicutt. Interesting - when you consider the whole point of the Memoranda was to exonerate T H Cutbush. Unless of course Macnaghten intially did suspect Cutbush.. who knows!!
One last question, do you know if any photographs of Cutbush or his Uncle have survived ?
David
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AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 763
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 5:21 am: |
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David
A reader at last!
Yes, I too believe Cutbush to be the most likely of suspects, but no I haven’t read ‘Through the Mists of Time’ by Hodgson, and I’m almost too afraid to admit that I’ve never even heard of it. The only possible excuse that I can have for this appalling gaff is that is was hopefully published after 1993, the year of my graceless retreat from the Jack world. So please tell me it was published after then, or I shall look rather silly.
Have you read the ‘Myth’ on-line here or in book form?
Just that the on-line version has been updated and revised and does contain more detail and information of the nature that will interest you.
Macnaghten’s memo is discussed in much more detail.
I am not aware of any photographs of the Cutbush clan, unfortunately there was no photograph of uncle Charles in his obituary, but I’m sure one must exist somewhere of Charles when not Thomas… either would be a great find.
Nice to know you are keen on young Thomas.
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David N Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 7:28 am: |
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Hi AP
Thanks for writing back.
With regard to 'Through the Mists of time' It was published in 2002 and went out of print soon after publication. Thus making it quite a rare book and not very well known.
I have recently come across mention of another book which puts Thomas in the frame. This book is called 'Saucy Jack', but I dont think that this has been published yet.
I read the 'Myth' in book form and I am about to start the on-line version.
I have read many books on JTR and I must say that there is something about Cutbush that always seems makes me wonder - could he have been Jack?
The image of Thomas being familiar to the prostitutes and the bobbies is a striking one. He wouldn't have seemed out of place walking the streets at night as the police and prostitutes alike would of thought him to be harmless.
The loner. The young man with a great deal of luck on his side possibly felt that he was above the law and above capture.
I think thanks to you the Jack the Ripper mask is starting to slip and a young man's face is beginning to appear...
Hope to speak with you again.
David
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AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 767
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 9:22 am: |
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David
you are too kind and make me blush, but I thank you for your positive comments.
I shall try and track down a copy of 'Through the Mists of Time' as I should dearly like to read it.
Interesting what you say about another publication in the pipeline concerning Thomas Cutbush, as I have it on good authority that there are two researchers out there somewhere busily and diligently gathering facts about uncle Charles and Thomas - sad to say both appear unwilling to share information - with a view to publishing books and actually solving the case. My understanding is that one of the researchers enjoys unparalled access to documents still under lock and key at the Home Office, Scotland Yard and the PRO, and that these documents are indicative of the complicity of Superintendent Charles Henry Cutbush in the unsolved crimes of Jack the Ripper.
This is not to say that dear old Charles was the Ripper, but that he had some involvement in the crimes and certainly more knowledge than he should have done.
Like you, I do feel that the opportunity to solve these crimes will appear very soon, and it would be a very neat fit if I had been right all along the line. We must wait and see.
Yes, you must read the on-line version of the 'Myth', it will help to resolve many of the issues you raise.
Thank you again for your positive - and charming - comments. |
David N Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 9:56 am: |
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AP
What are you thoughts on the supposed messages & clues left by the Ripper?
Do you think if indeed Thomas was Jack he may have left any?
I initially didn't go along with the notion that the Ripper would take the time to leave messages & clues, but when looking at the type of character that he may have been - a risk taker, a man above suspicion, a man of self superiority, a madman, then perhaps the idea isn't so daft.
I have been studying a particular Ripper photograph and I believe that I may have possibly found a message.
Your thoughts would be very welcome.
Regards
David |
AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 769
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 1:30 pm: |
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Now that is a difficult one, David.
I have to say right at the start that I am not easily persuaded that Jack would have left messages or other material not directly associated with the crimes he had committed.
Having said that though, I have always considered the Lusk letter as being genuine in its origins and content - which isn’t the same as saying that the letter was written by Jack - in that the letter was obviously written by someone with a good street knowledge of the area of the crimes who perhaps had a personal grudge against Lusk as the head of a group of people who were interfering with the nightly criminal activity that commonly took place in that particular area of Whitechapel.
There is much that draws me to the Lusk letter as being genuine, not the least that it could have easily been written by someone like Richard Chase… or Thomas Cutbush. I have pointed out before that the Lusk letter does strongly bear the mark of a clerical hand - the flourishes that begin lines and sentences etc as in a ledger book - and we do know that Thomas was a clerk before his troubles begun, but that doesn’t mean that much. More importantly perhaps is our knowledge of Thomas’ madness and his fondness for writing letters - he wrote letters of complaint to the Treasury, Lord Grimthorpe and his own doctor threatening to shoot them all when he believed he had been given ‘bad medicines’ for the treatment of his imagined syphilis - and this does seem to make it very likely that Thomas could have penned something like the Lusk letter. In fact I’ll be bold here and say that I believe the Lusk letter to have been written by Thomas Cutbush, which then I suppose means that Thomas must have been Jack, for where else would he have got the kidney included in the package for Lusk? Mere speculation, sorry.
The most honest thing I can say about the Lusk letter is that the fact it was sent to a private individual rather than the press or police almost certainly gives the letter an authenticity that no other letter or message carries. This is vital distinction.
I’d still be interested in hearing - or seeing - more about this message you might have found, but will understand if you want to develop the idea yourself.
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David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 5:14 pm: |
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Hi AP
I have always believed that the Lusk letter was from the killer and the strongest indication of this in my mind is the fact that it wasn't signed 'Jack the Ripper'.
If a forger wanted Lusk & others to believe that it was from the murderer then surely they would have signed it 'JTR'. Whereas if the actual Whitechapel Killer sent it, then in his mind there would have been no need to try and convince anyone that the letter was genuine.
Hope to speak with you again
David
PS There is another issue surrounding the letter that I would like to discuss at some point
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David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 3:00 am: |
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Hi AP
I have always thought the Lusk letter to be the most likely sent from the Killer. The main indication of this being the fact that it wasn't signed JTR.
If a forger wanted to convince Lusk & others that JTR had sent it then surely it would have been signed JTR. Whereas if the real Whitechapel Killer had penned it then in his mind there would have been no need to convince anyone that it was genuine.
Hope to speak with you again
David
PS There is one more issue regarding the Lusk letter that I would like to discuss with you at some point. |
SPEARS
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 12:20 pm: |
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Hello
With regard to the Lusk letter, I have heard the story of a supposed Irish man entering a shop and asking for Lusk's address. But does anyone know if on any of the days preceeding the letter being sent there were any newspaper articles published which inferred that Lusk & his men had their eyes on any particular suspicious individuals.
The reason I ask is that if there were any such articles this may have giving the Ripper the idea to sign off - CATCH ME WHEN YOU CAN
Kind Regards
SPEARS |
AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 787
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 1:26 pm: |
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I have always felt that the Lusk letter was a personal letter, sent and received by two individuals with a rudimentary street knowledge of one another. I don't imagine it to have been a 'hoax' letter at all.
Thank you for your kind comments elsewhere, information about Thomas is not easily available but a close study of the original Sun reports does reward that study. |
David N Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 6:05 pm: |
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Hi AP
The other issue regarding the Lusk letter that I wanted to discuss was just something that I suppose really does belong in the realms of fiction.
Working on the basis that:
1.Thomas Hayne Cutbush wrote the letter.
2.That he was familiar with the whitechapel
prostitutes.
3.That he may have known one or two of the victims names prior to the killings.
4.That he was cunning enough to leave a clue in the Lusk letter.
I looked at the sign off of 'Catch me when you can Mishter Lusk', and I pondered on the possibility of a hidden statement within this and by re-arranging some of the letters what I found was:
Thomas Hayne Wil Cut M K
Is this a cocky pre-warning of a Ripper attack yet to come?
Probably not! but it was an interesting thought.
I know this proves nothing whatsoever, I know that I haven't used all of the letters in my re-arranged statement and I also know that other statements can be made such as:
Thomas Hayne Cuts Uncle CH - (Charles Henry)
or
Thomas Hayne Cut M K - Referring to the fact that he had murdered Mary Kelly as Catherine Eddowes was sometimes known.
AP please don't think me daft.
It was just something I wanted to share.
Regards
David |
AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 792
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 1:44 pm: |
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Why should I think you daft for such things?
Why, I have been sat by my chimney now for over fifty years waiting for Santa Claus to appear and the utter varmint still hasn’t shown up!
I can tell you right at the start that a man who goes around chopping up prostitutes on the streets has no need for secret messages or the like.
I reckon his message is pretty much obvious.
If I may offer you some heartfelt advice it would be to work with the obvious and avoid the intricate machinations of the unobvious.
Man with knife, stabs women, goes to jail for life.
Man with knife has uncle, top cop in shop, papers say him culpable, police chief says him not, uncle shoots ‘imself in head.
Case closed say Cornball.
Artist did it.
I hope you see what I mean.
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1254
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 2:32 pm: |
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Found this little snippet about arrest procedure of interest:
'When an arrest has been made, it is usual to pass the prisoner with as little delay as possible to Holloway Prison; but now and again a person suspected of mysterious or political crimes is taken to New Scotland Yard for examination of a special kind.'
From Sims, 1902.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2834
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 4:39 pm: |
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Hi AP
Well, he seems to have gone to Holloway, where Dr Gilbert decided he was insane.
We don't know whether or not he went to Whitehall, but Woodhall's story seems to combine elements of Dr Holt, Druitt and Cutbush.
Robert |
David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 4:58 pm: |
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Hi AP and Robert,
I just wanted to check if either of you know if Thomas ever worked in a Tea Warehouse on Whitechapel High Street or Whitechapel Road? The reason for the question is that I have recently obtained a book within which is a photograph of this area and in it there is a Grocery and Tea Warehouse, and the photo is of the period.
Regards
David
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3767
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 12:56 pm: |
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Hi David
I don't think AP's ever mentioned his working in a warehouse. Sir Melville said that Thomas was employed as a clerk and traveller in the tea trade in the Minories, and that he canvassed for a directory in the east end.
Do you happen to know the name or street number of the warehouse, please?
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1680
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 1:56 pm: |
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Yes, Robert and David
according to the 'Sun' reports Thomas was employed at a tea warehouse - but not for long - for they do report the incident where Thomas threw an old man down the warehouse stairs, severely injuring him as well as knocking him out, and then telling the concerned workers who gathered at the bottom of the stairs: 'Poor gentleman has fallen down the stairs.'
When the poor gentleman recovered in hospital two weeks later he told the true story and Thomas was fired.
Where that tea warehouse was I can't say, I'm afraid, as I don't know. My understanding though is that there were a powerful lot of tea warehouses in the particular area.
I've been running with the idea that it was one of Kearly & Tonges, but that's more wishful thinking than anything else as two victims were actually murdered outside their tea warehouses.
Kearly & Tonge most definitely had the tea warehouses in Mitre Square, for they marketed their tea under the 'Mitre' brand. |
Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 255
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 2:22 pm: |
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AP-
For what it's worth, I read your article in the Mammoth Book too and was unimpressed at the time. It seemsed to end rather abruptly and I found it unsatisfying.Cutbush dropped off my radar.
Then I read the dissertation here just a couple of weeks ago.What a difference! I'm very interested in your ideas now. Thomas is now on my list at number 4 or so with a bullet.
I'd advise anyone who really wants a thought provoking read to go to the dissertation section.
Mags
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3768
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 3:17 pm: |
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AP, sorry I forgot about the stairs. How could I have done that? Must have been concussion.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1682
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 4:44 pm: |
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No worries, Robert
I'm falling down those stairs all the time myself.
Mags
Yeah, I was unimpressed by my contribution to the Mammoth Book as well - though I did enjoy the Billy Liar bit - and I'm afraid I didn't even know there was a dissertation.
Please tell me that I didn't write it?
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2699
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 5:21 pm: |
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AP,
"I'm falling down those stairs all the time myself."
There's that Spanish brandy again! I told you...!
Mags, dear,
What dissertation is this?
I have checked the dissertation page over and over again and can't find anything concerning either Cutbush or our dear friend AP.
Assistance, please.
All the best
G, Sweden
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1684
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 6:03 pm: |
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Glenn, thanks,
I've looked myself with no luck.
I can only assume that Mags is referring to the post I made on the 'Cutbush in the 1881 census' thread some time ago, perhaps on the 28th December?
You are right, it is the Spanish brandy, but I'm in Australia in four days so it's Bundaberg for me for a month.
I hope you lot don't fight too much.
Kitty and Stan just need a little rub now and then to keep them sweet. |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2701
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 6:55 pm: |
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Ah OK,
Thanks anyway, AP.
I'll see if I can find it later.
Is that the one you yourself referred to when you suggested that someone should read the updated version on the net instead of the book? What did you mean by this?
Have a good time in Australia, in spite of the Bundaberg... 
All the best
G, Sweden
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 260
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 10:47 am: |
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I thought I was losing my mind there for a moment. It wasn't a dissertation, it was the full text of "Jack the Myth" here:
http://casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/non-fiction/jackmyth.fulltext.html
Mags
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2704
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 11:01 am: |
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Aaaaaah!
Thanks Mags. I had no idea about this.
Not something one usually sees on those reviews pages. Now I get it.
Thanks. Shall be an interesting read.
All the best
G, Sweden
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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SirRobertAnderson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 106
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 12:50 pm: |
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"I have always felt that the Lusk letter was a personal letter, sent and received by two individuals with a rudimentary street knowledge of one another. I don't imagine it to have been a 'hoax' letter at all. "
Agreed. I understand why it is reasonable to assume all the letters were hoaxes, but when it comes with a human kidney in the caboose, one should be prepared to question one's assumptions.
Sir Robert
"I only thought I knew"
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1690
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 1:05 pm: |
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Yes, Sir Robert
and I would also speculate that exactly the same 'rudimentary street knowledge' relationship existed between Jack and all his victims.
The Lusk letter is quite a fascinating document which I am able to study for hours at a time, especially when magnified enormously using the pixel technology of modern computers.
Whereas I'm afraid none of the other letters rouse my interest at all.
I believe it to be genuine. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3782
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 1:07 pm: |
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Sir Robert
I'm going to reveal either my appalling ignorance or my shocking memory, but could you tell me whether there were any other letters posted with organs included? I can't think of any, not even "copycat" ones after the Lusk letter, but as I say, I'm not sure about this.
Robert |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2709
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 1:13 pm: |
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AP,
I am inclined to agree with you, and I do find it fascinating myself and for several reasons: the handwriting, the fact that it is NOT signed Jack the Ripper plus the fact that it contained an item.
I can't say I feel 100% sure, but I feel that if any of the letters would be genuine, the Lusk letter is it! there is just something about it, that makes my gut feeling spark...
Robert,
As far as I know, I don't think any other letter contained an organ (and I don't mean the musical instrument...).
All the best
G, Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 06, 2005)
"Well, do you... punk?"
Dirty Harry, 1971
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David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 4:09 pm: |
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Hi Robert
The Tea warehouse in question was at the end of Whitechapel High Street and was number 72.
Regards
David |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3790
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 7:31 pm: |
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Thanks David. I found a grocer, a Mr Spitter (?memory). If I find the tea warehouse at the same address I'll post any info.
Robert |
Sir Robert Anderson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 111
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 10:00 pm: |
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Dear Wolfmeister,
I have gone and done the evil deed and listed Cutbush as my suspect on my profile, along with an old favorite, D'Onston.
Sir Robert
"I only thought I knew"
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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Sir Robert Anderson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 112
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 10:26 pm: |
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" whether there were any other letters posted with organs included? I can't think of any, "
Nor can I. If med students were up to pranks, they perhaps might not have stopped with just one. Of course, hard to say, but if med school back then was anything like it is these days, I can't imagine a student risking his certificate for the sake of a joke that he/she knew would bring down massive heat.
Sir Robert
"I only thought I knew"
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3791
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 3:54 am: |
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Thanks Sir Robert and Glenn. Yes, one occasionally reads of "pranks by medical students" - I think there was a brief suggestion of this during the Whitehall mystery - but they hardly seem to have deluged the police, press etc with pranks during the JTR investigation.
Whether or not the Lusk letter was genuine, one might have expected to see copycat organ-sending afterwards, if medical students were really into this sort of thing.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1697
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 5:55 am: |
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Pleased to hear it, Sir Robert!
The one thing that cannot be denied is that Cutbush is fast becoming the most interesting suspect for a long while.
The boy certainly has some history. |
David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 4:55 pm: |
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Hi all
With regard to the ripper letters, I too believe that the Lusk letter is very likely to have been sent by the killer, as discussed with AP above on 28/01/04.
There is another letter though, that I have been interested in for some time. My interest is based on a couple of ideas, one being that Thomas possibly used the name James instead of his given name, possibly giving this name to the police when he was arrested, as The London Times on
24 March 1891 reported his name as James Cutbush. Also a witness came forward stating that a victim was last seen with a man she called Jim.
The second idea is that Thomas, if indeed he did write the letter wanted to give a cunning clue as to his identity.
The letter which I am refering to is signed 'Jim the Cutter'.
If as stated above Thomas did like to use other names than his own, then I have found a possible link to Thomas and an article in John Blunts Monthly 16th Dec 1929 which I would I would be more than happy to go into if anyone would like me to.
Regards
David
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3798
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 12:42 pm: |
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Hi David
Yes, please do. Interesting idea, that Thomas gave a different forename. Looking forward to hearing more.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3800
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 1:46 pm: |
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David, the grocer was James Spitty and he lived with his family at number 72, on the corner with Osborn St. They were there in 1881, but had decamped by 1891.
Robert |
Sir Robert Anderson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 116
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 5:16 pm: |
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"The letter which I am refering to is signed 'Jim the Cutter'. "
David, every once in awhile you read something about the Case that makes the hairs on your neck prickle.
Your comment is one of them. Nice catch.
Sir Robert
"I only thought I knew"
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 6:13 pm: |
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Hi Robert
Thanks for the info on the Grocer.
With regard to the link between John Blunts Monthly and Thomas, firstly please see the below article.
John Blunts Monthly 16th Dec1929:
'A short time ago, however, new light was thrown upon the identity of the murderer by a man released from Broadmoor, whose story is now published for the first time. The narrator, who lost no opportunity of disseminating what he had learned in the asylum, had completely recovered his reason, as will be understood by everyone familiar with the firm custody imposed upon the criminally insane.
Guilty, but Insane
During his stay at Broadmoor he learned many interesting things, and among them he gathered full details of the man who was known in Broadmoor as Jack the Ripper. This individual had been there for more than thirty years. He was a quiet, well-behaved man of great knowledge and culture, famous for his love of scientific books, and his fondness for diagnosing the ailments of persons with whom he came into daily contact. The warders used to point out the similarity of his characteristics with those of Jack the Ripper. Their explanation was that this man was actually caught by the police after one of his terrible crimes, but, since he was at once pronounced insane, by the prison doctors, he could not legally be placed on trial, and was accordingly sent to Broadmoor, without the details of his crime and capture being published.
The authorities knew that his capture would not appease the public, who would demand his execution, which was impossible owing to his insanity. He passed in Broadmoor under the name of Taylor, although that was not his real name. Like Jack the Ripper, he was regarded as a doctor. Both were exceptionally strong men, and to those who knew all the facts there were many other similarities far too striking to be the work of chance.
Inmates of Broadmoor Asylum have their special friends, and to his intimates Taylor confided a daring plan of escape which he confidently expected to bring to a successful issue.
His assiduous hobby was gardening, the flower-beds he tended being in a somewhat remote part of the asylum's extensive grounds.
He had only a comparatively low wall to climb. If only he could obtain solitude for the purpose, there was nothing between him and freedom. The opportune moment came. He started to climb the wall, helped by a series of inconspicuous footholds which in the intervals of gardening he had managed to contrive. He was already half way up when an iron chisel, which he had taken with him to help him on the other side of the wall, fell out of his hip pocket and crashed on to a glass frame nearby - making sufficient noise to attract attention, so that he was caught in the nick of time to prevent a criminal lunatic of the most dangerous type from being let loose upon the world.
Soon afterwards, perhaps mercifully, he died.
At Broadmoor he was known always as Jack the Ripper, and the curiously similar characteristics of the two men, coupled with other significant circumstances, convinced many persons, including some in high authority, that the mild and amiable "Mr. Taylor" was none other than the arch-murderer of modern times.
That the new Jack the Ripper is no nearer than Dusseldorf is a comfort these autumn nights.'
Some have said that this article could be refering to James Kelly, but the length of incarceration doesn't make this possible and nor does it for Cutbush. However if we were to assume for now that some of the details in this article are incorrect, as happens from time to time, then we can find a possible link with Thomas.
Thomas Cutbush as we know stated, that he was studying for the medical profession,and if whilst in Broadmoor other inmates had learnt of Thomas' interest in anatomy and the medical profession, they may have then thought of him as a doctor. The article refers to a man being caught after one of his crimes,could this have been the killing of Frances Coles ? and finally the escape attempt, we know that Thomas had previously been successful in escaping from Lambeth Infirmary,also the method of the attempted escape in Broadmoor, over the wall is interesting when one considers how Thomas would always enter & leave his home, by climbing over the back wall.
If we also consider that Thomas used names other than his own, then why should he have used the name Taylor? Well, as you know Thomas Cutbush’s fathers name was Thomas Taylor Cutbush.
I realise that most of the above is mere speculation, but then alot of the ripper saga is, and that just adds to the mystery.
I hope the above is of interest.
Regards David
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Sir Robert Anderson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 119
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 10:59 am: |
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"I realise that most of the above is mere speculation, but then alot of the ripper saga is, and that just adds to the mystery.
I hope the above is of interest."
To say I'm impressed with what you've dug up and your analysis would be to put it mildly. Great stuff!
Sir Robert
"I only thought I knew"
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 269
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 11:25 am: |
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Speaking of names.I don't know how to put this delicately so please forgive my rudeness but the name "CUT-BUSH" is perfect,is it not, for a genital mutilator?
The etymology of "bush" to mean pubic hair goes back to 1745 (OED).
A person with a religious mania may have seen this as some kind of sign from God.
Mags
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1704
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 11:46 am: |
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Again, exciting stuff, and I too am impressed with the level of interest and research going on.
This is a nice little find, David, albeit speculation... some interesting connections though as you point out.
I suppose my single greatest reservation is in the physical health of the subject, for when the reporters from the 'Sun' were allowed into Broadmoor - I believe this was in 1894 but might have been later, sadly I don't have the reference handy - to interview Thomas Cutbush they describe a weak and sickly individual who they found in a total catatonic state, unable even to speak. This doesn't really tally with the description you have found.
But no matter.
It is early days with this yet. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3816
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 1:24 pm: |
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Hi David
Super find. The main stumbling blocks seem to be the period of incarceration, and the statement that he died soon after his escape attempt (he seems to have been in a trance long before 1903).
I suppose the first stumbling block could be removed if it was supposed that what was meant was that he had been there over 30 years ago, instead of that he had been there for over 30 years. There is a faint hint in the language that the informant had been learning about the suspect, rather than meeting him - though whether memories of a man who died 26 years ago would persist in an asylum, I can't say.
I'm not trying to make the article fit by hook or by crook, just agreeing with AP that it's early days yet.
And anyway, even if it isn't Thomas who's meant, it's about someone, and it would be nice to know who. Thanks for posting it.
PS Mags, the mistranscription "Cutbirth" is almost as apt.
Robert |
David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 6:07 pm: |
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Hi all
Thanks for your kind words.
I will dig out my book which contains the letter signed 'Jim the Cutter', shortly and post further information about it.
Regards
David |
