| Author |
Message |
    
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3591
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 12:36 pm: | 
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Hi all
This thread, a continuation of "Does or did the Diogenes council exist?" is for discussion of Druitt's estate.
Administration was granted to Monty's brother William on 24th July 1891, ten days after he was granted administration of the estate of his and Monty's mother Ann.
Monty and Ann both left approximately £2500.
In 1889 there was a "Times" reference to a Druitt trust, but it's unclear just what this trust was for. I have just lost access to the "Times" online, but hopefully I or someone else can get back on it and see if there are any further references to Druitt trusts or Monty's estate.
In the meantime I will write to York to see if Druitt left a will and, if so, obtain it.
Robert |
Chris Phillips
Chief Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 546
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 12:52 pm: |
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Robert
I think York has only the same probate indexes that John Savage posted extracts from, and MJD's entry means that he didn't leave a will.
Chris Phillis
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 646
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 1:20 pm: |
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From the National Probate Calendar courtesy of John Savage:
1891
Druit Montague John
Personal Estate £2,600 2s 0d.
24 July administration of the personal estate of Montague John Druitt late of 9 Kings-Bench-Walk Temple in the City of London barrister at law a bachelor who was last seen alive on 3 December 1888 and was found drowned in the River Thames at Chiswick in the County of Middlesex on 31 December 1888 was granted at the Principal Registry to William Harvey Druitt of Bournemouth in the County of Southampton gentleman the brother.
What strikes me here is the mention of Druitt last being seen alive on December 3! I believe this is also the death date on his gravestone. It is generally assumed from the gravestone that this date is an approximation based on the December 11 communication to William that Montague had not been seen in his chambers for "over a week," December 3 being just over a week before December 11. However, "last seen alive" does not sound like a way to introduce an estimate and furthermore, would such an estimate be fitting for a legal document such as this?
This raises the very serious possibility in my mind that Monty was indeed seen alive on Monday, December 3, which in turn raises a very interesting question about the unused portion of his railway ticket dated December 1. There may be more to this than has previously met the eye.
Andy S. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3593
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 6:16 pm: |
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Hi Chris and Andy
Chris, I only hope you're wrong, because I've already sent them £30 for some Cutbush wills.
Andy, yes, this was picked up in the previous thread. I suppose it's even possible that Monty died after 3rd, since "upwards of a month" is a vague phrase, and if Monty had simply gone missing and no one had reported seeing him, he could have died on the 4th, 5th, 6th...
Robert |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 648
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 10:07 pm: |
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I suppose someone has checked to make sure Monty didn't appear in court on December 3.
Andy S.
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Chris Phillips
Chief Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 547
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 3:47 am: |
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Robert
?
I don't say that none of the Cutbushes left wills, but unfortunately it appears that MJD didn't.
Chris Phillips
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John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 286
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 5:18 am: |
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Hi Robert,
Having previously got wills from the probate registry at york, I can say with certainty that they do contain more than the short entry in the probate caalendars,
Chris Phillips,
Why do you say that Monty did not leave a will?
Regards
John Savage |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 309
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 5:23 am: |
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Well done Robert,
Hope you did not think I was being "picky" about creating a separate thread.
I'm just thinking about our welfare in ten year's time when we try to remember what thread that item re Wills from THE TIMES was posted.
I wonder if I can add insult by asking if you think, Robert, it might be good to download another copy, onto this thread, of that TIMES item recording the mention of the Druitt Wills Trust matter being heard in the Court Of Appeal under "Lunacy Matters"?
Chris and Andy and Jon's useful findings make me wonder if -even if there was no MJD Will-whether the papers for the Druitt matter in the Court of Appeal might have?
Amazing what you can find in the digitised TIMES
site isn't it Robert? Wish I was wealthy enough to have a go. |
Chris Phillips
Chief Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 549
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 5:42 am: |
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John
Yes, of course the wills themselves contain more information than the probate calendars. The administration may contain some more information too.
All I was saying was that as you found an entry for an administration in the calendar, and no entry for the probate of a will, that means there won't be a will in the registry. Unless, I suppose, it has been missed out of the printed calendar by accident. But I'd expect that to be exceptionally rare.
Chris Phillips
(Message edited by cgp100 on December 03, 2004) |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 287
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 6:44 am: |
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Hi Chris,
Thanks for that, and what you say is of course correct, it must be a case of my brain being slow to warm up this morning.
However, I have just spoken with the Probate Registry in York, who told me the following:
Where an entry from National Probate Calendars says “administration of the personal estate”, this is taken to mean that the deceased did not leave a will and died intestate.
The only record that the probate registry would hold in such a case is the letters of administration, and these will give the name of the executor and little else.
With regard to the date of death the probate registry tell me that these would be taken from the death certificate. So has anyone seen a copy of Monty’s death certificate? Presumably the date of 3rd. December would be on that.
Hope this is of some use.
Regards
John Savage
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 649
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 2:52 pm: |
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Ah, the death certificate! That would be a prtty obvious source of information. Surely it must be on record.
But wouldn't this certificate reflect the inquest results? These seem (from the newspaper account) to point toward the night/morning of December 1-2 as the time of death. A date of December 3 on Monty's death certificate would be startling.
Somebody with access, please check on this!
Andy S.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3596
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 6:03 pm: |
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Hi all
Chris, I'm afraid you're probably right about the will.
Re administration, I have the paperwork relating to Thomas Cutbush, who died intestate. It gives his address (Broadmoor), the date of death (day month and year), the place of death, and "bachelor without a father." Then it says that admin was granted to Kate Cutbush, her address, widow, mother. Finally it gives the gross value of the estate.
This was headed "Death on or after 1st January 1898" so maybe this means that intestates' admin was recorded slightly differently before?
John R, here's the item :
"TIMES" July 15th 1889
Re the "Times" online : you don't have to be wealthy, or that would count me out. I'll email you.
Robert |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 513
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 9:08 pm: |
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Hi all,
I haven't anything of real value to add to this thread...I wish I did. But isn't it ironic that the thread was set up on December 3rd?
Jeff |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 289
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 3:49 pm: |
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Hi Andrew,
A death certificate must exsist as the following from the Register of Deaths for January quarter 1889 shows:
Druitt, Montague John, Age 31, Brentford, 3a, 66
Regards
John Savage |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3600
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 5:30 pm: |
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Hi Andy
I can't remember whether I ever checked the law notices to see if Monty was due in court on 3rd. However, even if he was scheduled to appear, that in itself presumably wouldn't rule out the possibility of his drowning on 1st - they weren't to know he was dead.
Robert |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 652
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 11:46 pm: |
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You're right. You'd have to check the notices from Dec. 4 or 5 to see if Monty actually appeared on the 3rd.
Andy S.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3604
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 3:49 am: |
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Hi Andy
If I get the chance, I'll try to check up on all this via the "Times".
It's a weird business. For instance, you'd think that it would just be a question of checking the court case verbatim reports, but no such luck. Not all cases are available (I don't know whether this is because records have been lost, or whether records were simply not taken at the time). For instance, I went to the Supreme Court library to find a case - Regina v Cutbush and another - and what I got was a summary of the judge's ruling which didn't even mention Cutbush! Instead, it gave a technical ruling about a man called Payne, and whether certain sentences should be concurrent or consecutive. The librarian was as surprised as me, but he said that unfortunately there was nothing else, as that was all they had.
Robert |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 653
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 10:37 am: |
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Thanks, Robert.
This brings me to something I've been wondering. Does anyone know were I can get access to the Times of London historical database? I'd be willing to pay a reasonable price for access.
My library gives me access to the NY Times historical database -- which is very good. I've requested that my library purchase access to the Times of London database but I got no response. Are there any pay-for-access sites?
Andy S.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3605
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 12:26 pm: |
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Hi Andy
I too enjoy searching the "Times" but my local library doesn't seem to subscribe.
As I understand it, there is no individual access - unless you want to declare yourself an institution and pay institution rates, which I imagine is fairly expensive.
Hitherto I have usually got on it through being given usernames and passwords from trials. If I get on it again, I'll let you know.
Robert |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 654
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 2:25 pm: |
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Thanks, I would appreciate that.
I wonder if an individual can purchase access through a library. In the States we have "free" access to our local library (tax dollars support it) but you can usually purchase borrowing privileges at other libraries for a reasonable fee (usually about $25/year). This is mostly used by people who, say, winter in the South but have their legal residence up North so that they can use the local library in their winter home. If we knew of a library that provided London Times historical database access we might be able to purchase the right to utilize it from that particular library.
I had hopes that the university for which my wife teaches would have access through their library, but even they do not.
Andy S.
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Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3185
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 2:36 pm: |
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Hi Andy -
The best resource for online databases and the like tend to be university-level libraries. I make several trips a year down to the University of Virginia, where I'm free to use pretty much all their services, including the online Times directory. They also have a killer newspaper/microfilm section which always comes in handy.
I would check out any reputable universities in your area to see what they offer, and whether they place any restrictions on public usage. Local county libraries tend not to subscribe to online services like the Times index or WorldCat, etc. but larger universities almost always have a subscription.
Stephen P. Ryder, Exec. Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 655
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 2:52 pm: |
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Thanks, Stephen. I feel very fortunate that our St. Louis County public library provides access to the New York Times historical database. But that's not a great deal of help in researching the Whitechapel murders. My wife teaches part-time for Maryville University but that's a small university catering mostly these days to business majors (she teaches accounting) so they don't have access, either. We do have some more prominent universities in St. Louis that I could check on, including a branch of the University of Missouri. I know that unfortunately, Washington University restricts access to its library. You must show a student ID.
Andy S.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3638
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 6:44 pm: |
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Paul Begg says in his "Uncensored Facts" that Druitt inherited approx £1,000 posthumously from his mother. So the estate business looks rather complicated.
Robert |
David Andersen
Detective Sergeant
Username: Davida
Post Number: 77
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 2:38 pm: |
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I have a copy of MJDs death certificate.
His date of death is given as 3rd December.
It follows that - since he did not use his return ticket he must have been 'last seen alive on the 3rd' at his destination. ie Chiswick!!!
Regards
David
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 883
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 7:47 pm: |
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David,
What do you mean by "death certificate?"
I have a certified copy of the Death Registry for Montague John Druitt. Under "When and Where Died" it says "F.D. December 31st 1888" [F.D. = found dead]. There is no death date. Exactly what certificate do you have?
You can see the scan of the certificate in my possession on Druitt's page in the suspect section of the Casebook.
While it is possible that Druitt may have lived until December 3, I know of no evidence that suggests he was seen alive after December 1 when he bought the rail ticket. And, by the way, the destination on his ticket was Hammersmith not Chiswick.
Andy S. |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1121
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 02, 2005 - 4:21 am: |
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Andy
I can't find the information exactly, but I see in the previous discussion a statement that the probate calendar gives the date as 3 December (and this is the date Farson gives - maybe that's where he got it from). But Druitt's gravestone gives 4 December (Sugden).
The suggestion I've seen about the latter date is that there's a reference in the inquest reports to Druitt's brother being told on 11 December that he hadn't been seen at his chambers for more than a week.
Chris Phillips
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 884
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 02, 2005 - 12:41 pm: |
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Chris,
That statement you saw in the previous discussion is exactly the reason why I requested the official "death certificate" for Montague John Druitt. I cost me a mere £7. I thought perhaps it would have a date of death. It did not.
David Anderson said that he has "a copy of MJD's death certificate" and that it lists a death date of December 3. This is obviously some different certificate from the official certificate I have, which is marked with the seal of the General Registry Office. I would like to know exactly what certificate David has. If Montague were still alive on December 3 this may shed some more light on his final hours.
Andy S. |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1122
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 02, 2005 - 1:02 pm: |
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Andy
I don't see how there could be a death certificate with information different from the one you have. (Unless the date of death was omitted when the entry was copied from the local register to the national one, but I don't think that is likely.)
I think the date David mentions must have come from a different source.
Chris Phillips
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John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 433
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 02, 2005 - 6:53 pm: |
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Hi Chris & Andy,
I recall posting that information from the National Probate Calendars, and at the time I phoned the probate registry in York to ask them how it would have come about, alas they were not able to supply a definite answer but the presumtion was that it would have come from the coroner's inquest, which of course is now lost.
Rgds
John |
Simon Owen
Inspector
Username: Simonowen
Post Number: 219
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 02, 2005 - 7:39 pm: |
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If Druitt did die on the Monday ( 3rd ) then that would mean his suicide note makes better sense ( ' Since Friday ... ' although with the usual caveat about it being an approximation of Druitt's words ).
I've always felt that if he had written the note on the Saturday , Druitt would have written ' Since yesterday... ' rather than ' Since Friday...' , it would sound better.
That does leave us with the problem over the rail tickets however. |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 886
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 02, 2005 - 9:41 pm: |
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"I've always felt that if he had written the note on the Saturday , Druitt would have written ' Since yesterday... ' rather than ' Since Friday...' , it would sound better."
Unless, Simon, he was writing it with the presumption it would be found some days later, after he was missed. I believe the scenario might have been thus:
Druitt writes the suicide note during a sleepless night spent at Valentine's Nov. 30 - Dec. 1, the night following his dismissal. By leaving it in his quarters at the school he allows himself an option. Early the next morning he travels to Hammersmith (possibly eventually to Chiswick) in search of some sort of assistance. He buys a return ticket so that in the event he finds the assistance he is seeking he can return to Valentines and destroy the suicide note (option 1) before anyone finds it. If he doesn not find the assistance he is seeking (and it would appear that he did not), he takes his own life leaving behind the suicide note to be discovered days later at Valentine"s (option 2).
This scenario explains the "since Friday" wording, the trip to Hammersmith, and the return ticket.
With regard to the Probate Calendar, that may be what David is referring to. That is not, however, a "death certificate." John is probably right in that this information came from the inquest -- but then again why would that not have been entered in the death registry since Diplock provided the information for this?
Andy S.
(Message edited by Aspallek on July 02, 2005) |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1124
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 4:06 am: |
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Andy
John is probably right in that this information came from the inquest -- but then again why would that not have been entered in the death registry since Diplock provided the information for this?
I suppose that while Diplock provided the information to the registrar, the family would have provided the information to the probate registry, and to the stone mason who made Druitt's gravestone.
It's easy to see why the family would want to provide a definite date rather than emphasising that the date was unknown.
But it does seem odd that they should have guessed at the Monday or the Tuesday as the date of death, rather than the Saturday, as the train ticket would suggest.
Maybe, after all, there was something we don't know about in the inquest evidence, which suggested Druitt died later than Saturday. I can't imagine what it could have been, if it wasn't mentioned at the inquest, though.
Chris Phillips
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Andy and Sue Parlour
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tenbells
Post Number: 130
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 2:39 pm: |
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Hello Simon,
Druitt is, and will always remain an enigma regarding the JTR saga. It is worth however what our researches uncovered when writing our book which is reproduced as follows for those interested:
A manual about the constitution of the Metropolitan Police was published in 1929. This was written by J.F.Moylan, the Receiver for the Metropolitan Police District and the Metropolitan Police Courts. This office is in parallel in authority with that of the Commissioner of Police, both being directly under the Home Secretary. Moylan was thus a very senior figure. He had been at the Home Office from 1905-1918, and had been receiver from 1919. He wrote:
"The dynamite campaign practically ceased after 1885, but 1887, the Jubilee year, was full of anxieties for the C.I.D. and its special branch. Next year, 1888, came the series of fiendish murders in Whitechapel popularly attributed to "Jack the Ripper", a name that first appeared as the signature to a bogus letter which was treated as possibly authentic and given undue publicity by Scotland Yard. Notwithstanding the peculiar character of these murders, both as regards locality and victims, there was a general scare, many believing that Satan, or perhaps Cain, was revisiting the Earth. Feeling ran very high against Scotland Yard and the C.I.D. for their failure to lay hands on the murderer, who, it is now certain, escaped justice by committing suicide at the end of 1888".
Obviously Moylan had an insight into both the Home Office and Metropolitan Police. Was he privy to information that was denied to others?
A&S |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 889
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 9:28 pm: |
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Thanks for this. This is yet another example of Macnaghten's influence. I don't think the "drowned doctor" suspect was his idea but I believe he championed it. He seems to have clearly influenced men such as Griffiths and Sims.
Andy S. |
David Andersen
Detective Sergeant
Username: Davida
Post Number: 79
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 6:49 am: |
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Hi Andrew.
Chiswick borders onto Hammersmith. Hammersmith Station was, and still is, the nearest railway station to the Manor House Asylum.
Regards
David
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 890
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 12:55 pm: |
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David,
Can you tell me exactly where Manor House is? My impression is that Ravenscourt Park Tube Station is a shorter walk than Hammesmith. But I may not have the correct location for Manor House in mind.
Ravenscourt Park is significantly nearer The Osiers than is Hammersmith and I thought Manor House was near The Osiers. See the map here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clive.billson/tubemaps/1905.html. It is from 1905 but Ravensourt Park was in the same location in 1888.
There would also have been the option available to Montague to travel directly to Chiswick via the South Western Railway from Waterloo Station. But I believe the Chiswick railway station is on the opposite end of Chiswick and probably more distant than Ravenscourt Park.
Also, what certificate do you have that lists his death date at Dec. 3? His death certificate lists no death date, only the date on which his body was found. See the Druitt page in the suspects section of the Casebook.
I'm not dismissing your theory re: the Tukes but I would like to examine the facts in greater detail.
Andy S. |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 908
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 5:55 pm: |
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I'm not sure why David Anderson is hesitant to answer me but I have found some information out for myself. I'm not trying to discount David's theory but I wonder if he isn't overstating his case.
Here is a link showing the location of Manor House (arrow). As you can plainly see, the closest Tube station is Turnham Green (Stamford Brook was not yet in existence in 1888). Ravenscourt Park is just off the map to the East and lies between Hammersmith and Manor House. Druitt would have to walk right by Ravenscourt Park and almost to Turnham Green on his way to Manor House since he presumably travelled only to Hammersmith. Why wouldn't he have bought a ticket to Ravenscourt Park or Turnham Green if his destination was Manor House?
See also this link.
True, perhaps not every train stopped at Turnham Green or Ravenscourt Park. But wouldn't he merely wait for a train that did call nearer his intended destination?
David, I'm interested to read your book when it comes out and I think there might be a connection between the Druitts and the Tukes that is worth fleshing out. I'm not trying to "blast" you. But you'll have to address some of these unanswered questions sooner or later, like: what certificate do you have that shows a death date for Montague Druitt of December 3 when the certified registry of his death does not give a death date?
Andy S.
(Message edited by Aspallek on July 19, 2005) |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1214
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:09 pm: |
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Andy
Thank you for pointing that out.
And as you suggested previously, Chiswick Station itself is also clearly closer to the site you indicate for the Manor House than is Hammersmith Station (perhaps about 2/3 as far away).
Chris Phillips
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 912
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:33 pm: |
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Chris,
I didn't mention that in my last post because the more I thought about it the more I wondered if taking the train to Chiswick station would be practical. To do so would have required a transfer from the South Eastern to the South Western Railway at Waterloo. Geographically, this is a direct route but it is true today and was probably also true in 1888 that it is generally faster to go into Central London -- even if that is slightly out of the way -- because the connections are often much better.
Of course there may have been other factors. It is conceivable, for example, that the District Line may have been shut down for repairs West of Hammersmith that day (no mention of this in the Times, though). But that is grasping at straws.
Andy S. |
David Andersen
Detective Sergeant
Username: Davida
Post Number: 81
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 8:16 am: |
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I do apologise. I am not being evasive. I am away from home at the moment but I shall check my papers for the date source when I get home.
As far as Hammersmith is concerned. I spent my early life in Chiswick, being born in Chiswick Mall alongside the river where MJDs body was found. Hammersmith, and Ravenscourt Park and Turnham Green are all within easy reach of The site of the Manor House (in Chiswick Lane opposite the junction with Beverley Road). They are all on the District Line. It is however a shorter route from Hammersmith if one follows the line of the river.
There is a firm connection between the Tukes and Chiswick.
Regards
David
|
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 917
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 7:17 pm: |
|
David,
Thanks for answering. Please do check again on the source of Druitt's death date being Dec. 3.
As for the geography of Hammersmith and Chiswick, I appreciate your familiarity. I have never been there but I will definitely pay a visit to the area on my next trip.
However, there is just no way that Hammersmith station is anywhere near as close to Manor House as Ravenscourt Park and Turnham Green. Look at this map. <--link
Hammersmith station is represented by the double red dots below the final "H" of "Hammersmith." Ravenscourt Park is the red dot beneath the "E" in "Hammersmith." Turnham Green is the red dot well above the final "C" of "Chiswick." Manor House is just to the right of the final "K" of Chiswick. (Ignore the arrow. It got moved somehow). There is no way -- even via the River -- that Hammersmith is closer. It is easily twice the distance as that from Turnham Green to Manor House and significanly farther that Ravenscourt Park.
This is not to say, of course, that Druitt -- or anyone else -- might not alight at Hammersmith and take the longer walk, either by chose or ignorance. But we can't use the Hammersmith ticket found on him as strong evidence that his intended destination was Manor House.
Andy S.
(Message edited by Aspallek on July 22, 2005)
(Message edited by Aspallek on July 22, 2005) |
CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 11:34 am: |
|
Hi Andy,
I too think there is a conection between Druitt and the Tuke family, but I have read that there were two different Tuke families and that is confuseing to me. Do you know anything about them and can you clear it up for me. There was a Tuke that worked closely with Balfour. If Browne is right and Macnaughten connected Druitt with the leader of an assasination plot against Mr. Balfour, could Druitt have been connected in that way. Druitt's family believed him to be insane, and I read both Tuke families worked in the field of mental illness.
Your friend,Brad |
