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Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 134
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 6:01 pm: |       |
Before this thread gets "started", let me know if its been here before, was booted, or has been "settled"...I couldn't find any reference to it....so with no further ado...
TIME AND A WORD....
The other day,I saw a post made by Mr. John Ruffels regarding whether or not the word “whore” was in use in Whitechapel circa 1888...
The post struck me as a little funny at first. Not that Mr.Ruffels said anything unusual,but considering the social circumstances,the degredation,and preponderence of prostitutes in the East End,it would seen that the word “whore” would have been used in a variety of ways and frequently at that. A no-brainer as far as I was concerned... The post that John had placated is currently on the “Eight Little Whores” thread...I only went there to see what my pal Jeff Bloomfield had posted and scrolling up,I noticed John’s question.
Thinking that the post would probably be overlooked and remain unanswered,due to the reason that I mentioned above,I thought nothing more about it.
At work today,I accidentally came across a book of mine that a friend had borrowed. Its entitled, Wicked Words. It is a dictionary with word origins for almost all the “curse” words we utilize in our great Anglo-Saxon lexicon. From my favorite 4 letter “F” word to your favorite,it has them all....
How I came upon the book was a coincidence. In looking in a huge Webster’s Dictionary that I also have at work [ which the borrowed book was sitting on top of ] to show a co-worker that the word “zipper” was not in it,despite having 2400 pages and weighing at least 7 pounds, I remembered John’s post and flipped over to the word,whore. It was there all right.
So,this segued into me looking at the recently returned book of Wicked Words...
Everyone is familiar with the controversy over some of the syntax and facts within the Maybrick Diary. One of the things that struck me a while back,but something I never pursued because I really had lost interest in the Diary to be honest,was the number of times the word “whore” IS used in the Diary. Back then it seemed like the Diary’s creator was using a technique similar to,say,the NSDAP,in constantly saying,”Jew...Jew...Jew...Jew...Jew...” Over a period of time,the listener will become conditioned to the point that when he or she hears the word, Jew,the message,no matter how false or distorted,will induce a knee-jerk reaction,and that being that the message is true. Call it Goebbelian or Pavlovian,it works. Not perhaps for the reader of this post,but it does work. It’s a practice used in advertising,sales,and public relations.
Back to the whores. I counted the times the word is used and came up with 88 whore or whores and at least 20 other “whoring” “whoremaster” mentions. I did that today.
Mr. Ruffels deserves credit for bringing this up for the possible fact that no one,until today,has ever counted all the times this word is used. IF someone has,then please let me know....
The following is a scan of the word “whore” that I made from the book today....
Has Mr. Ruffels given the Diary Camp another “shot in the head” ?
One thing I'd be interested in hearing from the pro- or objectivist Diary people is despite the fact that the word "whore" wasn't even in the Oxford English Dictionary,nor in Bibles of the day,[and I'm sure that few people kept dictionaries earlier than the dates in which they were subsequently abridged to conform with the societal norms,] here we have over 100 usages of the root word,whore...
How about Mr.Omlor or Mr. Phillips ?
Any opinions?
A whored-out Howie |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 135
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 6:04 pm: | |
Whoops ! Give me a moment and I'll upload the page ! Whatta dope ! |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 136
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 6:39 pm: | |
Well...I'm going to have to type this in here as the attachments didn't upload for some reason..
Here is the seminal page of the definition and its origins....
"...In the 18th Century,however,this was one of the words [ see ASS ] that people bgan to be nervous about using. As Alexander Pope put it " I loathe a whore and startle at the name.
Later writers were startled enough to dash out the term,as did Horace Walpole: "He would have piqued himself on calling the Pope the w---e of Babylon."
Lord Chesterfield also made an extremely fine distinction at about this time,blanking out the term in literary-historical context,when referring to a quarrel between Achilles and Agamemnon "about a w---e",and then in the very same letter,spelling the word in full in the religious context,explaining to his son that "The good Protestant conviction that the Pope is both Anti-Christ and the Whore of Babylon,is a more effectual preservative in this country than all the solid and unanswerable arguments of William Chillingworth [ 2-17-1749]/.
Dr.Johnson,on the other hand,pulled no punches when assessing the earl's letters to his son,observing that "they teach the morals of a whore and a manner of a dancing master".[ In Boswell's Life of Johnson.
The taboo on the word whore grew stronger in the following century. Thus,Noah Webster dropped every whore out of the Bible when he produced a version for use by families in 1833, four years before Victoria ascended the throne. In Webster's text, the person that " sitteth upon the many waters",in Revelations became the "great harlot". In other cases,he substituted lewd and lewd woman,while changing whoredom to carnal connection,idolatries,lewd deeds,impurities,prostitution,and so on...
Here's the main thrust of the thread........
The silence of the OED on the subject is noteworthy. The relevant section [W-wo,1922-27],includes not a single example of the word's use BETWEEN 1818 and 1894.It was during this period,of course,that "abandonded woman", "unfortunate" and "one of the frail sisterhood" and similar VICTORIANA flowered. Concern about the word whore became so great that it extended to some of the word's other softer synonyms.....
Whew !
In any event,the page above [ 416 ] comes from Hugh Rawson's highly praised book....Wicked Words. |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 504
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 8:45 pm: | |
Hi Howard,
I wish my father were alive. He died in 1991. He was a linguist, and he would have found this a matter to mull about (although he actually was more of a master of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, German, and Russian).
I always assumed "whore" was pretty commonly used, but that in polite society it was ... shall we say squeamishly picked up and deposited as little as possible. I also assumed that the word "prostitute" would have been more commonly, openly used because it somehow seems , err, cleaner. "Prostitute" suggests somebody's profession, like "dentist" or "baker". "Whore", perhaps because as you say it is pushed into one's face so rapidly and negatively, comes across as to "prostitute" as say "Shylock" to "usurer" or even "banker". What I really wonder about though is another perjoritive noun, "tart". The term was quite commonly used too in both the U.S. and U.K. I recall that Larry Hart, Richard Rogers first collaborator, used the term "tart" (in an amusing double entendre) in the song "The Flower Garden of My Heart" in PAL JOEY. The song, being sung in a seedy nightclub, is in a production number where fruits and vegetables ("There are lilacs, and dainty sweet peas.") are in the lyrics. The first stanza ends "And life is the artist, and love is the art, in the flower garden of my heart". The second stanza ends when the character of Gladys Bumps (who is just slightly better off than a prostitute) sings, "For you are the pastry, and I am the tart, in the flower garden of my heart!".
I remember in the 1964 Peter Sellers movie, THE WORLD OF HENRY ORIENT, Angela Lansbury makes the comment of saying her daughter (a young teenage girl, who has been doggishly following Sellers around out of puppy love) has been behaving like a little tart. Because Lansbury's character is supposed to be fairly well-to-do, I concluded that polite people ... if driven to "sordid" descriptions, used "tart" rather than "whore".
By the way, slightly off the subject, Johnson's celebrated comment on Lord Chesterfield's letters to his son (which was a popular etiquette book in the 18th Century) may have been based on personal pique. If you recall, this was the same Philip Stanhope, Lord Chesterfield who Johnson had sought the patronage of for over ten years while he struggled, who was constantly denied contact to his Lordship by snippy servants, and otherwise humiliated. When Johnson finally achieved scholarly renown for his Dictionary, Chesterfield suddenly was willing to become his patron. Johnson (in a historical moment for writers) wrote a famous letter telling off his Lordship about his thirteenth hour offer of belated patronage when it was no longer needed.
It marked the end of literary patronage as a necessity for gifted writers.
Now you can see why the vehemence of Dr. J's statement of Lord C's morals and manners. Who is to say Johnson entitled to say so?
Jeff |
Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3161
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 8:56 pm: | |
Interesting idea...
Just to check though I ran a search through "My Secret Life", the infamous sex diary written by the semi-anonymous "Walter" in the 1880s... the word "whore" came up no less than 45 times.
http://www.my-secret-life.com/
Stephen P. Ryder, Exec. Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper |
Donald Souden
Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 311
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 10:06 pm: | |
Howard,
I went and checked my 1832 edition of Noah Webster's An American Dictionary of the English Language and he does include whore as a noun ("a concubine; a courtesan; a prostitute") as well as both a transitive and intransitive verb, plus definitions for whoredom, whoremaster, whoremonger, whorseon, whorish, whorishness and whoreishly.
Don. |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 138
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 11:39 pm: | |
Donald: Thanks for doing so. The reference work that was abridged,however,was the OED,used in Britain. Webster's,as you pointed out,was the American version of the same time period. Maybe since the English were entering a more straitlaced period,sexually and socially speaking,the OED dictionary was concomitant to that change and merely a reflection or example of the shape of things to come for decades to come. It could also be that most of us over here were still in coonskin caps [ just kidding....] and would have to wait until the Victorian period took root over in England,for us to change with it.
Steve: Man-o-shevitz ! Thats one scatological dude ! It made me blush ! Then again,considering that his Diary had over a million words, 45 times isn't that much. But,it is a Victorian period book with the word 'whore" in it. Thanks for the information.
J.B.: Thanks for bringing up the tart reference. I wasn't actually stating that since the word was removed from the OED,that it also removed the word from usage. However,wouldn't you think,personally,that the word "slut" or "harlot" would have made it at least ONCE in the Diary, because unless I am mistaken,they didn't at all.. The guy is stuck on whore and in referring to the prostitutes,he occasionally uses "bitches" or "bitch". One word for the wife. One word for the victims. What do you think?
So,are there any other Victorian period books,aside from the one Stephen mentioned,that get into this "blue" language?
|
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 139
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 11:57 pm: | |
Just in case anyone wants to read the above typed-by-me excerpt plus some other material from the book,regarding the word, "whore" and its taboo status in Victorian Britain...,because I can't get them to upload here....dammit !
http://www.jtrforums.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=730&posts=4#M5549 |
Chris Phillips
Chief Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 517
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 4:11 am: | |
I've always assumed that the diary uses the word "whore" a lot because it's consciously copying the "Dear Boss" letter ("I am down on whores") as it does in other respects ("Ha ha").
Perhaps also copying "Eight little whores", but at least we know that the "Dear Boss" letter comes from 1888.
Chris Phillips
|
Mark Andrew Pardoe
Inspector
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 272
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 5:18 pm: | |
Whatho all,
Samuel Johnson (1709-1784):
"They teach the morals of a whore, and the manners of a dancing master" (referring to Lord Chesterfield's letters)
"Our tastes greatly alter. The lad does not care for the child's rattle, and the old man does not care for the young man's whore" ("Life of Johnson" by J Boswell)
"The woman's a whore, and there's an end on't" (referring to Lady Diana Beauclerk [sounds like my sort of woman])
So he knew the word whore even although he didn'y know the rule about not putting a comma in front of a conjunction.
And Stephen, how well used is that copy of "My Secret Life"? Ay? 
Cheers, Mark (who remembers his mother's warnings about eyesight) |
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