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Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards » Suspects » Tumblety, Francis » Could Tumblety have known Druitt? « Previous Next »

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CB
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi all,

I was reading the interview that Stewart Evans gave and he gave a list of reasons why he believed Tumblety was a good canidate for Jack the ripper. At the end of his list states that " With regard to Sir Melville Macnaughton and his last comments on the case, It must not be forgotten that Douglas Brown, when writing his history The Rise Of Scotland Yard in the early 1950's apparently saw records, which indicate that Macnaughten actually identified the ripper with the leader of a plot to assasinate Mr. Belfour at the Irish office. As we know Tumblety was a sympathiser to the Irish cause and probably a Fenian."

If Mcnaughton truley believed that Druitt was the ripper. He implied so as late as 1913, Then one may assume that Druitt was the ripper suspect that Macnaughton was refering to when he identified the ripper with the leader of the plot to assasinate Mr. Belfour. Tumblety,s shaddy past and his aleged involvement in other assasination plots and knowing that he was an Irish sympathiser, it may not be to far a stretch to believe he could have been mixed up with such a plot. Druitt may not have been involved with the assasination plot but may have been involved with someone who they considerd a leader in the plot. Tumblety most likely was a homosexuall and in all probability so was Druitt. Druitt was discribed as sexually insane by Mcnaughten. The term sexually insane was a lable given to homosexualls in 1888. Druitt was also let go from his teaching Job because of unusuall circumstances. It is not a stretch to believe that they may have ran in the same circles of society and I am sure that the homosexuall circles of london were even smaller and more secretive.

Macnaughten doese not mention Tumblety in his 1894 memo. I find this odd. Tumblety was arguabley the most famous ripper suspect world wide. I am willing to accept Stuart Evans explanation that the police may have been trying to spare the embarrasement of letting such a suspect as Tmblety get away. I will also suggest that the difference between the suspects that Macnaughten mentiond and Tumblety is all of Macnaughten's suspects were accounted for. Druitt was dead,Kosminski and ostrog locked up in asylums. To mention Tumblety as a top suspect could have been disastrous because people's responce would have been were is Tumblety and why did you let him get away? Macnaughten claimed to have private information that connected Druitt to the ripper murders but he never made that information public. could his information have been Druitt's connection with Tumblety? Macnaughten also made a statement that the answer to the ripper murders lies at the bottom of the river. Was he refering to Druitt being the ripper or was he claiming that Druitt had knowledge about the identity of the ripper. Tumblety was picked up and questioned for the Whitechaple murders he then fled London. Could those factors have led to Druitts suicide?

Your friend,CB
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Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 36
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Friday, October 22, 2004 - 1:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Those are some original thoughts. I don't blame anyone for trying to look for a new angle as to why Druitt was considered a suspect. A possible identification of the Macnaghten suspect who died in the American hospital is posted in the "No connection to the Balfour plot" thread. Oddly, this man isn't listed as a suspect anywhere else.

The casebook's "press reports" don't have any NY World or NY Tribune clippings in them for the month of December 1888. Those papers had some very good Tumblety articles that month. I've got a few of them, and I'll try to get them into the "press reports" section pretty soon.
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CB
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Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Joe,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my post. I started this thread with the hope to gain your oppinion on the matter and your responce is appreciated.

I may have stepped out of bounds when I suggested a posible relationship between Tumblety and Druitt. I do believe that Druitt was the suspect that Macnaughten would have been refering to when connecting the ripper with the leader of an assasination plot. I think Tumblety's past history makes him an interesting possibility. I look forward to reading your future post.

Your friend,CB
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Phil Hill
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Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there evidence that Druitt was homosexual? He may have been interested in boys (hence his dismissal from the school) but the rest is I think an assumption.

Second Macnaughton's memorandum does not necessarily include his "top" suspects. he merely lists three men MORE LIKELY THAN CUTBUSH to have been the killer - a different thing entirely, if you think about it!! So Tumblety might have been his main suspect, but without proof. It was not necessary to mention him. Equally, later in life, Druitt may have been his answer to fob off questioners.

Unlike Swanson with Kosminski, MM never confided his views on the killer in writing and in private.

Who can tell whom Druitt met in his lifetime, but to me, (in Victorian terms) Druitt and Tumblety appear to be people who would have moved in VERY different circles.

Phil
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CB
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Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Phil,

I disagree I feel that Druitt was MM's main suspect and he believed Druitt to be the ripper. I think he would rather say notheing then to accuse someone just to fob off questions.

If Macnaughten did connect the ripper with the leader of an assasination plot against Mr. Belfour and if believed Druitt to be the ripper is it so far fetched to believe that Tumblety and Druitt may have known each other or had similiar associates?

your friend,CB
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Malta Joe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 55
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi CB,

Besides the Queen's pardon, I could see two other items which support your thoughts concerning Tumblety's use of an accomplice. The first one being a quote from the attorney William Burr who in 1888 initiated this same idea of yours:

"The Whitechapel murders would be such a thing that Tumblety would be concerned in, but he might get one of his victims to do the work, for once he had a young man under his control, he seemed to be able to do anything with the victim."

Burr wasn't just making idle chatter. What gave him license to speak like this was that he had previously viewed "a great mass of evidence" against Tumblety which had been compiled by two Brooklyn detectives along with a NY law firm. Burr deduced his opinions from these two sources. This evidence has yet to be publicly revealed.

The second item is much more indirect, and it is contingent on the belief of Tumblety being the Batty Street lodger. The Dublin Evening Mail of Oct 17, 1888 reported: "There is an idea abroad that a man still lodging at a particular house in question (22 Batty St.) has been observed to act in a manner that leads certain people to imagine that he is in communication with the murderer." Despite these two items, there is a reason why I'm not willing to embrace this Tumblety/accomplice theory with respect to the Whitechapel murders. I'll tell you why in a moment!
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Malta Joe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 56
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello again! Tumblety had hired an accomplice named Young Burchard in the mid-1850's, and they teamed up to commit a crime which was detected. Tumblety took the rap for it while Burchard fled to New England. Tumblety learned from this mistake. Ever since that event, Tumblety would restrict the involvement of his future associates to the sole duty of assisting in his escapes from the authorities. For example:

The kid Hamilton was used during Tumblety's retreat from St. John to Calais.

Two lads were recruited to pay his bail that eventually launched Tumblety's London to Havre flight.

Finally, the most cunning of all was his use of McGarry for the escape from 79 E. 10th St. in New York while under intense surveillance.

In all three cases, Tumblety made sure that he was the one who fled the area this time, and his boys were the ones left behind to face the music. I can't label Hamilton as an accessory for Portmore's death, and neither did the New Brunswick authorities. I can't label any of Tumblety's Whitechapel associates with any accessory crime either. I feel Tumblety left all of these guys in the dark during his killings, and he utilized them mainly for the his escape purposes.

CB, you probably have more weight on your side of the see-saw than I have on mine concerning this subject. You definitely have some things in which you can build on here to support your accomplice theory. Hopefully some day we can all take a look at the evidence which Burr viewed that made him say the things he did. Have yourself a great big 2005!!

Malta Joe
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CB
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Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Joe,

As always your post are informative and apreciated! I do believe Tumblety had an accmplice If not Druitt then someone else but your knowledge of the man [ and the case.]is far greater then mine and your oppinion carries much weight.

I have a straight forward question for you. Why did the police suspect Tumblety. I have heard all the arguments against Tumblety but the police suspected him for some reason. There is evidence that the police were aware of Tumblety and his affiliations.

I wish you all the best in 2005!! I look forward to reading your future post.

Your friend,CB
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Malta Joe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 57
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 1:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yo CB! The reason the police suspected Tumblety sure seems to have originated from the evidence + info that was accumulated at 22 Batty Street on Sept 30th. The CID's pursuit of a suspect to Tumblety's Liverpool stomping grounds in early Oct combined with the probable mid-Oct communication to the SF Police Dept appeared to have developed in proper order. Stride's unexpected domestic-dispute murder, and the commotion caused by it, really spooked Tumblety out of that Berner St/Batty St neighborhood before sunrise. While scrambling out of there, he was forced to leave a lot of things behind in the hopes that it wouldn't be detected. The press made sure the lodger was informed that he failed at this.

As for the police possessing evidence of Tumblety having affiliates, I really haven't found anything to support this. I suppose Littlechild's missing dossier could reveal more about it. They did briefly detain the two guys who paid the Nov 16th bail, but that didn't amount to much.

Actually CB, I'd be just as satisfied upon finding something tangible that exonerates Tumblety from these crimes as I would in stumbling upon something which really nails him. But the one thing we've really got to dismiss are retorts such as "A man with homosexual tendencies can not murder a woman." Or "Tumblety doesn't cozily fit the current FBI profile of the Ripper." These quips are of no use to a researcher. You can't be utilizing 21st Century profiling concepts upon figures who lived in the 19th Century. You're doing it the right way CB when you inquire about what line of investigation did the Yard pursue? What was the determining factor which caused the British authorities to diminish their hunt by December? What evidence emerged to provoke a Queen's pardon? I think we'll go further with this approach instead.

You like nitty-gritty questions, so I'll ask you one this time! What was Tumblety's motive for these killings? You can take your time with that one! So long!

Joe
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Mark Andrew Pardoe
Inspector
Username: Picapica

Post Number: 280
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whatho all,

This thread has set me thinking. Many of the men on this site will be aware homosexuals meet each other in public lavatories; I believe they call it "cottaging". Did this activity exist in the 19th century?

If so, and if Montague was homosexual, it is possible the two gentlemen could have met this way. Yes, I know with the population of London such a coincidence is improbable but, well it could happen.

There are now many "gay" pubs or bars but in the 19th century with homosexuality being illegal, would such establishments exist at that time?

I'm just wondering and, incidentally, I wish no disrespect or insult to any of the homosexuals who read this site.

Cheers, Mark
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Lindsey Millar
Detective Sergeant
Username: Lindsey

Post Number: 109
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi all,

What proof do we have that Tumblety and Druitt actually knew each other? I just don't see it myself, considering the population of Whitechapel at the time. But (as usual) I could be wrong.

I wouldn't be surprised that Tumblety had an accomplice, but that it was Druitt, I just can't see the connection.

And I just don't see Druitt as the Ripper.. I'm still on that "no namer" route, although..

if the police suspected Tumblety...

Even though he doesn't seem to fit the witness reports.

Still confused as ever!

Lyn
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CB
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Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 2:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Lyn,

We have no proof what so ever that Druitt and Tumblety knew eachother. It is pure speculation and you are probably right. I was just wondering because Mcnaughten may have connected the ripper to the leader of an assasination plot of Mr.Balfour. Mcnaughten believed Druitt to be the ripper. [This does not mean he was.] Given the fact that Tumblety was a Irish sympathiser and probably a fenian and combined with his past history it may not be to hard to believe that he may have been invoved in such a plot or at least known people who were involved in such a plot. Who knows they may have known eachother and Mcnaughten may have thought that Druitt was the ripper but Mcnaughten may have been wrong.

Mr. No name seems to be a very popular suspect. I think that because aid to the eastend stood down so quickly after the Kelly murder suggest that the police were sure that there were going to be no more murders. The fact that no more ripper murders did take place [In my oppinion] would mean that the police were either very lucky or correct. There ar three reason the ripper murders would have stoped.

1. The ripper dies.
2. The ripper is locked up
3. The ripper moves away

Tumblety fled to America, Druitt commited suicide and Kosminski was locked away. I believe patrols stood down because of Druittt's suicide. The question is Why did the murders stop? If it was a mr. nobody the police would of had to have been very fortunate that one of the above things happend to him to make him stop killing.

Your friend,CB
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CB
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Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Joe,

Thanks for your responce. Tom wieskoph was asked during the 1986 masters what was going through Jacks mind when Nicklaus was standing on the 16th tee. Wieskoph replied " If I knew what he was thinking I would have won this tournament." If I thought like a serial killer I would drown myself in the ocean. Who knows what drives a person to kill another person? If Tumblety was the ripper who knows why he killed those unfortunates. Abberline believed that the ripper was harvesting organs and I believe he went as far as to suggest the ripper was takeing the organs on behalve of someone else. The organs seem to have been targeted by the ripper. Tumblety may of had a collection of organs in jars. I am sure you have heard this story and I am interested in your oppinion of the credibility of such a story. Tumblety may have been in love with a women when he was very young and she broke his heart when he found out that she was a prostitute. [I am also interested in your oppinion of the credibility of this story.] Prostitutes were targeted by the ripper. I do not believe however that organ harvesting and a broken heart was the motive for the ripper murders. I think you make a good point about profiling. Profiling is not an exact science it is a educated oppinion and I do not believe you can use modern day profiling when researching a 19th century serial killer. I agree with you that it is wrong to assume that a man with homosexuall tendencies could not kill women. That is an argument that I hear all the time when someone wants to dismiss Tumblety as the ripper.

I am not an expert in this field but I believe that the ripper was motivated by a fear of women and this fear developed into hatred. By takeing away the womb he was desexing her. If Tumblety was the ripper, he may of had a hard time coming to terms with his own sexuality. In 1888 homosexualls were not understood. They were considerd sexually insane. Tumblety may of had a hard time dealing with the fact that he was not stimulated by woman and this Frustration turned to fear wich led to anger. He may have blamed women for his inablity to be stimulated. If he had been maried I would be willing to bet that his mariage failed because of Tumblety's problems. I think he killed prostitutes because they were easy targets.

I do not believe Liz Stride was a ripper victim either. I have read the Batty street theory before and I agree that this is possible. There is a thread that was started by I think Chris Scott, go to suspects and then general discusion. the thread is called American suspect I believe. The thread discusses An American who recently arrived from Newyork He was tall and well dressed. The police did not release is name to the press. Similiar to the way they kept Tumblety's name from the press. This man was picked up on suspicion of being the ripper. He was picked up in early October. I wonder if this man could of been Tumblety? Could this have been the trigger to the events that you mention above that took place in early October? I feel the strange "American" was dressed similiar to the man that George Hutchinson discribed. I wonder if anyone has seen a discription of how Tumblety was dressed when he was picked up for gross indecentcy? was he dressed similiar to the man that George discribed. I am not sure was Tumblety picked up and questiond concerning the ripper murders before George came forward or after. I know the man that George discribed was shorter then Tumblety but just maybe it was the way he was dressed that drew the police to Tumblety.

I wonder why the police aid stood down so soon after the kelly murder, Some have suggested that it was because of the exspence but I find that unlikely. Could they have known that there was not going to be any more murders? I am not sure who would of been responsible for the diminishing patrols in WC. James Monroe who was Warren's replacement and I believe was the source of Mcnaughten's private information concerning Druitt In my oppinion believed Druitt to be the ripper and what ever information he recieved after Druitt's body was found was good enough for him to believe no more murders were going to take place and he may have been responsible for the diminishing patrols. Druitt may not have been the ripper and of course Anderson and Swanson the two detectives who were directly involved in the case took another view by supporting the suspect Kosminski but the identification of Kosminski most likely did not take place untill years after the Kelly murder and in my oppinion would not explain the lack of police presence in December. I think what we have hear is a case of Detectives who did not care for eachother because of politics Druitt was suspected first by Monroe and later Mcnaughten. I believe that the ripper murders were considerd solved at this point but Anderson and Swanson did not believe The explanation. They would of been aware of each others suspects as Mcnaughten's memo prooves but they believed there own theories. Abberline is the real dark horse. Did the Abberline diary exsit or is the diary a myth?

I would really be happy for you if you came up with evidence that cleared Tumblety. If you ever decide to write a book on the man such information would be a good eddition but I have to admite I would be a little disapointed.

Your friend Joe! CB

Hi Mark,

I believe such establishments did in fact exist. However, they would have been secretive and not on every corner. I am not sure but did not the Cleavland street scandle have to do with Homosexuality at a brothal. I feel the Homosexual community would have been a close nit group. I did not start this thread because I believe that Tumblety and Druitt were gay and because they were gay that they must have known each other. However, I believe that it is a possibility. If Mcnaughten did identitify the ripper with a leader of a plot to assasinate Mr.Balfour and if he believed that Druitt was the ripper then it may not be a stretch to think that they may have known eachother. I am asking is it possible that either Druitt knew Tumblety and Tumblety was involved in such a plot or Druitt knew someone else who was involved in such a plot and this person may have known Tumblety who in turn could have met Druitt or could Druitt have been involved with such a group and Tumblety been a member. I admitt to sugest that Tumblety and Druitt worked together to commite the ripper murders would be a stretch but could they have known eachother? Tumblety's past would make him a canidate to be involved in such a plot and if Mcnaughten did connect the ripper to such a plot and he believed Druitt to be the ripper is it such a stretch to think they may have known eachother? If they did no eachother would it not be a great coincidence that they both were suspected of being the ripper?

I do not believe that you have to worry about disrespecting anyone. A thread started by an unregisterd guest that suggest that Tumblety may have known Druitt does not spark much interest. I must admitt it sounds a little crazy. Why not suggest that Tumblety knew Sickert or Kosminski. I believe that if Joe had not put his name to this thread by responding I probably would not have gotten a responce from anyone. Your responce is greatly appreciated as well.

Your friend! CB
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Malta Joe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 58
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello CB, thanks for sharing your thoughts on what Tumblety's motives could've been. The two things you mentioned (A developed hatred for women plus the knowledge that Whitechapel prostitutes are easy targets) made my list of his possible motivational factors as well. Another factor was Tumblety's disdain for English authority which he self-nurtured through his outspoken Fenian sympathy.

Stewart Evans once wrote of an assemblyman named Jimmy Oliver who told of being at a private Tumblety gathering which the doctor hosted for his boys. Tumblety would first dwell on all the wrongs Ireland had suffered, then he revealed his personal style of attack to his young guests. Tumblety proudly declared his attack method to be an "ambuscade trick" which was only known + practiced by himself. The words he chose to describe the victims of his ambush were English 'dragoons'. (A dragoon was a calvaryman.)

Fascinating, isn't it? Tumblety again makes the English his victims. Those Whitechapel murders were original, and its unique methods were known + practiced by just one man. Tabram, Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes, and Kelly all fell to an ambuscade attack for none of them suspected they were in danger until it was much too late. Portmore can be listed as a victim of Tumblety's fatal-trickery as well. What always irked me about the Portmore case was that Tumblety purposely coincided his visit to St. Johns with the trumpeted arrival of the 18 year old Prince of Wales into that city in July 1860. Just before the English Prince was greeted enthusiastically by the locals, Tumblety made sure his arrival in that city was also showcased. Tumblety would not only praise himself in the St. John Albion, but he would also reveal the intent of his business by means of poetry in that local newspaper:

"Dr. Tumblety rode a white steed.
Into St. John's in its time of need."

"Tumblety had a killing air
Though healing was his professional trade
Rosy of cheek and glossy of hair
Dangerous man to widow or maid"

It sure sounds like the scoundrel is forecasting his first murder. It wasn't blatant, but his prediction was made known. Did he consider St. John to be in a time of need because of the upcoming arrival of the future King of England, Edward VII? Easy ambuscade targets, hatred of English authority, and a hatred of prostitutes. Those are strong motivational factors, and there are at least five other factors that can be spoken of at a future date.
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Malta Joe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 59
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To answer your question CB, concerning Tumblety's previous marriage, I think his hatred of prostitutes grew from his Montreal trouble from that Dumas character and not from any of his phony marriage tales. When Tumblety used this marriage talk, it was employed as a convenient excuse for his odd behavior.

"I go out late into the New York night Mrs. McNamara so I can pray for more dear departed wife at a monastery."

"I don't invite women to my symposiums because I had a previous bad marriage."

Does anybody really think that if a harlot would marry a wealthy man like Tumblety, that she would retain her job as a prostitute like Tumblety claimed? His silly marriage tale was designed to camouflage his homosexuality. His family would also protect the Tumblety name by listing him as a widower on his death certificate. I think they knew this woman never existed. If she did exist, they wouldn't have mentioned her. The probate storm that was brewing over Tumblety's estate didn't need some clown to hold everything up by claiming to be a legitimate son.

I'll re-read that thread you mentioned about the American suspect. Have a good week. Malta Joe
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg

Post Number: 1254
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Joe

Always interesting to hear your thoughts about our favorite suspect, Dr. Frank Tumblety, and thank you so much for working with me to finalize your article on Tumblety and the phony Civil War discharge papers he doctored up for Privates Tolley and Tift that we are pleased to be publishing, I hope, in the January issue of Ripperologist, now being finalized.

A couple of points about military terms, Joe.

You stated, "A dragoon was a calvaryman." This isn't strictly true. A dragoon was, more correctly, a cross between a full cavalryman who usually fought only on horseback, and an infantryman. In other words, the dragoon would ride into battle and fight on horseback but could also dismount and fight as an infantryman with a musket or rifle, depending on what period we are talking about (by 1888 such soldiers would probably be armed with rifles) -- a cavalryman, by contrast, was traditionally armed with a sabre and pistol or else a lance, as the light brigade had in the famous "Charge of the Light Brigade."

Ambuscade: this word is related to "ambush." See the entry in the Online Etymology Dictionary:

ambush (v.)
c.1300, from O.Fr. embuscher "to lay an ambush," from en- "in" + busch "wood," apparently from Frank. *busk "bush, woods" (see bush). Variant form ambuscade (1582) was reborrowed from Fr., sometimes ambuscado, with faux Sp. ending popular in Eng. 17c.

Indians and highway robbers were often said to attack from "ambuscade" as in the following account of an Indian atrocity entitled, "MURDER OF FELIX DONNELLY – HIS SON FRANCIS, &C." excerpted from * U. J. Jones's History of the Juniata Valley:

"When nearly opposite Big Spring, an Indian fired from ambuscade and killed young Donnelly. His father, who was close to him, caught him, for the purpose of keeping him upon the horse, Maguire urged the old man to fly, but he refused to leave his son. Maguire the rode to his side, and the two held the dead body of Francis. While in this position, three Indians rushed from their ambuscade with terrific yells, and fired a volley, one bullet striking Felix Donnelly, and the other grazing Maguire’s ear, carrying away a portion of his hair. The bodies of both the Donnellys fell to the ground, and Maguire rode forward, passing (probably withoutnoticing her) his daughter. The Indians, after scalping the murdered men, followed Jane, evidently overtook her, and grasped her by the dress, and with uplifted tomahawk, demanded her to surrender, but she struggled heroically. The strings of her short gowns gave way, and by an extraordinary effort, she freed herself, leaving the garment in the hand of the savage; then, seizing the cow’s tail, she gave it a twist, which started the animal running," to enable her to escape. [Emphasis added]

Such accounts of "ambuscades" in the West we can be sure Dr. Tumblety was familiar with from frontier history and the daily American papers. Irish history has examples as well. The Fenians who murderered of Lord Cavendish and and his under-secretary Thomas Burke in Phoenix Park, Dublin, on 6 May 1882, could be said to have attacked their quarry from "ambuscade."

Dr. Robert Anderson, incidentally, in The Lighter Side of My Official Life, Chapter IX, immediately after mentioning the Phoenix Park murders, wrote how in South Africa, "Dr. Jameson and the other leaders in the Transvaal Raid of the closing days of 1895. . . [were] led by [Boer President Paul] Kruger's spy, [and] the column was marched into the Boer ambuscade which brought the expedition to an end."

The idea that the Whitechapel murderer (if such Tumblety was) may have attacked his victims from "ambuscade" or "ambush" is certainly intriguing. scratchchin

All the best

Chris

(Message edited by chrisg on December 29, 2004)
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Malta Joe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 60
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CB, sorry about my lousy typing. Tumblety's words to his landlady Mrs. McNamara was that he would go out late into the NY City night "to pray for my dear departed wife" at a monastery. Tumblety's lies were as bad as my typing! As for your question about if Tumblety actually preserved anatomical specimens, my feeling is yes. The Vallejo Chronicle reported that the authorities "were informed of the strange going ons in the Doctor's office, but they were unable to get sufficient evidence against Tumblety to arrest him." It was in Tumblety's medical office where the specimens were supposedly kept. I believe Col. Dunham's account.

Chris, I revealed the Tift + Torry findings on Oct 1st and boom! It's already heading for Ripperologist's January issue! That really is quick and efficient work on your part. Nice job! Credit must also be mentioned to the other two gentlemen who contributed their fine research into the article. It'll be my pleasure meeting you in April. I'll contact you further on that in three weeks.

I looked up dragoon in an ancient dictionary, and it said "an European calvaryman." I then looked it up in a very modern dictionary, and your thoroughly explained definition was displayed. I chose to use the ancient dictionary's definition because I'm naturally lazy. Sloth to the left of me. Sloth to the right of me. That's from "Charge of the Joe Brigade." heh heh

I think declaring the Whitechapel victims to have fallen prey to an ambush would only measure up in terms of the mental aspect of it. In the Indian account you spoke of, the victims weren't aware of being in danger until the actual attack commenced. I feel the Whitechapel victims suffered this same mental experience. I don't think the Ripper utilized the ambush method in a traditional physical way, meaning he didn't just spring out-of-nowhere and immediately attacked. I think he first conversed with each of his victims before they led him to the area of the surprise attack. In Tumblety's warped mind, I could see him crediting these killings to self-conceived "ambuscade trick." Tumblety probably loved Warren's comment on how unique these killings were.

I'll bet that one year from today, we'll know a lot more about Tumblety than what is known now. Here's to 2005!

Joe

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