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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1234
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 4:02 am: | 
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I thought the following report might be of interest as showing Dr T in London and Liverpool in 1873:
The Times (London)
1 December 1873
At Marylebone, Henry Carr, 18, of respectable appearance, described as a carpenter living at 20 Chichester road, Paddington, was charged with having a gold chain in his possession supposed to have been stolen. The prisoner went to the shop of Mr. Parr, pawnbroker, in the Harrow road, and offered the chain in pledge. He was asked how he had become possessed of it, and, not giving a satisfactory answer, was given into custody. Replying to Mr. Mansfield, the prisoner said that about two months ago he met a gentleman who spoke to him and said that he wanted a secretary. On a subsequent occasion the gentleman asked him to go away with him. The prisoner's parents objected to his doing so, but eventually he went to Liverpool with the gentleman, who gave the prisoner the chain to take charge of. Afterwards, not liking the gentleman's manner, the prisoner left him and returned to London. Mr. Charles Carr, living at 20 Chichester road, father of the prisoner, corroborated his son's statement as regards the gentleman. Witness produced a pamphlet, written by a Dr. Tumblety, M.D., recounting some stirring adventures that he had been mixed up in. The front of the pamphlet bore a portrait of Dr. Tumblety, dressed in the uniform of a Prussian officer. Witness said that this was the person who had decoyed his son away. He had lately been stopping at the Langham Hotel. Mr. Mansfield remarked that clearly the prisoner had no right with the chain, and it would be retained by the police. The prisoner was then discharged.
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CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 7:25 am: |
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Hi Chris,
It is amazing how many times Tumblety was mentioned in the papers all over the world. Ripper related stories and then just Bizzare stuff like this over many years. He may have not been the ripper but he was strange. Thanks for posting the article.
All the best,CB |
John P. Shimkonis
Police Constable
Username: Aquavalour
Post Number: 6
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 2:40 am: |
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I find Tumblety reminds me of Albert Fish as far as strangeness goes. Thanks for the report copy post from The Times (London). |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2008
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 1:17 pm: |
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With regard to the 1873 press story above, I have been looking into the Henry Carr mentioned and thought this might interest some.
Henry Carr
1861:
8 Devonshire Place, Paddington
Head: Sarah Susannah Carr (Married) aged 29 born Essex - Dipworker
Children:
Charles E aged 7
Henry G aged 5
John W aged 3
Jessie S aged 1
All born in Paddington
Sister: Emily Philpot aged 17 born Essex
1871:
20 Chichester Street, Paddington, London
Head: Sarah L Carr (Married) aged 37 born Romford - Annuitant
Children:
Charles P aged 17 - Staircase hand
Henry G aged 15 - Carpenter and joiner
George W aged 13
Florence S aged 6
William J aged 4
All children born in Paddington
Visitor: Henry Philpot aged 21 - Carpenter and joiner
1881:
Carr family:
52 Talbot Road, Paddington.
Head: Charles Carr aged 49 born Bayswater - Lodging house keeper
Wife: Sarah Susana Carr aged 46 born Camfield, Essex
Children:
Frederick Douglas aged 11
Florence Sarah May aged 16
Both born Paddington
Although as yet unable to verify his date of birth, I suspect that Henry Carr's middle name was George, and by 1881, for whatever reason, he was using the name George rather than Henry. In 1881 a group of male Carrs were living as boarders in a house in Kensington and it seems likely these are members of the same family. They are listed as follows:
1 Blechynden Street, Kensington.
Charles Carr aged 30 born Paddington - Painter
George carr aged 24 born Paddington - Painter
James Carr aged 61 born Warwick - Master bootmaker
Walter Bishop Carr (son of above) aged 14 born Kensington.
Charles and George are listed as boarders living in the household of Benjamin Everett, a 31 year old house decorator.
James and Walter are listed as a separate houselhold at the same address.
I suspect that the Charles and George are the Charles P and Henry G listed as brothers in 1861 and 1871. In 1891 Charles Carr. Henry's father is listed as born in warwick, so it seems likely that the James Carr listed above was his older brother.
1891:
52 Talbot Road, Paddington
Head: Charles Carr aged 59 born Warwick - Butler
Wife: Sarah Susannah Carr aged 60 born Great Canfield, Essex
Son: Frederick Douglas aged 21 born Paddington - Telegraphist
1901:
78 Sandringham Road, Willesden, London
Head: Frederick D Carr aged 31 born Paddington - Telegraphist
Wife: Rosimond Carr aged 27 born Paddington
Mother: Sarah Carr (Widowed) aged 70 born Great Canfield, Essex
Sister: Beatrice Cullum aged 25 born Paddington - Dressmaker
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Carolyn
Detective Sergeant
Username: Carolyn
Post Number: 71
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 2:22 pm: |
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Chris,
Thank you so much for all your time and effort. You have given me so much information here on these boards. I for one, really appreciate all your hard work
Carolyn  |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2010
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 6:02 pm: |
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Carolyn
many thanks for your kinds words!
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1910
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 6:11 pm: |
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Yes Thanks Chris for this sterling stuff.Very interesting too!
Natalie |
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