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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1201
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 6:19 pm: | 
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The supposed references to the Prince in notes on the case as P.A.V. are well known and as far as I know his alleged involvement in the Cleveland Street scandal was never openly discussed in the British press.
However I found today a US article which was contemporary (Daily Northwestern of 26 May 1890) which explicitly names the Prince as involved in the scandal and thought it might be useful to post
Chris
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John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 181
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 6:06 am: |
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Hi Chris,
I think you are correct that PAV was never mentioned by name in British newspapers of the time, The nearest he came to being named was by being mentioned as PAV in correspondence by the attorney general.
This is the first time I have ever seen him connected by name to the Cleveland Street scandal, and I think you may have discovered a document that will have aa much interest to historians, as it will to us Ripperphiles.
Congratulations.
Best Regards
John Savage |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 363
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:39 am: |
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Hi, to anyone who knows:
I've been doing some reading about the scandal, and have seen a reference to police documents released in 1975 which were supposed to confirm Albert Victor's involvement. No details are supplied, so that seems pretty dubious. But I'd like the lowdown on them, if anybody knows. In his article "Tea, Scandal, and the Ripper's Shadow", Eduardo Zinna writes that there isn't any conclusive evidence of Albert Victor's involvement at 19 Cleveland Street. Are these supposed police documents just bogus information? If Albert Victor is out of the picture, Somerset's involvement seems to have been enough to have warranted a cover-up (since he was Bertie's Superintendent of Stables).
Also, I'm seeing some discrepancy in the name of one of the telegraph boys--is it Charles Swinscow or Thomas Swinscow?
Finally, what is a DPP? As in the DPP Sir Augustus Stephenson?
Thanks,
Dave |
Chris Phillips
Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 427
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:56 am: |
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The only question I know the answer to is about the DPP, which stands for Director of Public Prosecutions.
Chris Phillips
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John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 222
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 8:43 pm: |
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Hi David,
The boys name was Thomas Swinscow, the owner of the brothel at 19 Cleveland Street was Charles Hammond.
According to Stephen Knight in his book JTR The Final Solution "the official papers relating to the Cleveland Street case, which have been deposited with the Director of Public Prosecutions since 1889, were opened to the public in 1975" (page 116 in my copy). However Prince Albert Victor is never refered to by name in these documents only by the initial "PAV". His name was not published in any British newspapers in connection to the case, nor was it mentioned in court (which would have allowed the newspapers to publish the name).
There are two excellent books on the subject, one by H Montgomery Hyde, "The Cleveland Street Scandal", and the other by Chester, Leitch and Simpson, "The Cleveland Street Affair"
Hope this helps.
Best Regards
John Savage |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 364
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 9:01 pm: |
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Thanks very much for your time, Chris and John. That does help.
Cheers,
Dave |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1323
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 7:41 am: |
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Hi all
Found another press report today which mention Albert Victor in connection with the Cleveland Street affair
Chris
3 January 1890 - Ogden Standard (Utah)
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1845
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 11:43 am: |
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If it is of any interest to any of you, I have, for my own research purposes, transcribed all the Times articles relating to the Cleveland Street affair. If this would be of use to anyone, let me know and I will mail it to you.
All the best
Chris |
kasia
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 7:06 am: |
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hi, I am very much interested in the articles mentioned above (I'd be very grateful if u could e-mail those to me). I'd also be very very veeery grateful for any info about other scandals (of all sorts,besides Wilde's) of the Victorian era (I need it for my diploma paper). thank u in advance!! |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 343
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 12:42 pm: |
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Hi Kasia,
The Cleveland Street Scandal involves the story of the involvement of Prince Albert Victor (heir to the throne) in a homosexual brothel in Cleveland Street, London.
If its Victorian scandal you want them I reccomend you check this one out. Apart from the books I have mentioned above there is a brief overview of the case in Stephen Knight's JTR The Final Solution, also I am sure that if you search the web you will find some references to it.
Another excellent source on the private lives and sexual peccadilloes of some famous victorians would be " Feasting With Panthers" by Rupert Croft Cooke, W.H. Allen, London 1967. It includes the poet Swinbourne's facination with spanking, one or two Eton schoolmasters and their "over familiartity" with some of their pupils and much more.
Rgds
John |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 806
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 12:50 pm: |
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Kasia,
You might also like Eduardo Zinna's article "Tea, Scandal and the Ripper's Shadow" from Ripperologist. He discusses Cleveland Street and other Victorian scandals.
Dave |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1870
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 1:04 pm: |
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Hi Kasia
I will gladly send the Cleveland Street articles to you but as you are showing as an unregistered guest I cannot pick up an e-mail address for you
Let me know and I will send them.
I am currently typing up all Times reports for the Maybrick inquest and trial and the next venture after that is the Wilde trial reports.
Chris |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 594
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 8:48 pm: |
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Hi Kasia,
If you have not found it, look for H. Montgomery Hyde's book, THEIR GOOD NAMES, which is about ten or so major scandal cases of the period. Also let me recommend Roy Jenkins' VICTORIAN SCANDAL (New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovitch - Pyramid Books, 1965, 1969, 1976). The book is about the Crawford Divorce Case, the divorce that destroyed the political hopes of Sir Charles Dilke to be Prime Minister. I would also recommend (if you haven't already) checking out any reasonably good biographies on the life of Charles Stewart Parnell, who was also destroyed (before achieving Irish Home Rule) by his affair with Kitty O'Shea.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
kasia
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 5:00 am: |
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thank you very very very much for your help, I really appreciate it. to Chris Scott: my e-mail is kasia_bo@poczta.onet.pl |
scala
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 8:35 am: |
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I work in an office that's only 2 doors down from 19 Cleveland Street. The property is still a secretive looking place to this day, with a black frontage and blinded windows from the ground floor up.
I think it's currently up for sale and I'm quite tempted to contact the Estate Agent to arrange a visit, just out of morbid curiosity. |
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