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Natalie Severn
Chief Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 516
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 3:14 am: | 
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Bullwinkle,
Below is a direct quote from Paul Begg"s book,JtR,The Definitive History:
[page269]
February 1891
.......Three days later,In the morning of
7th February,Aaron was discharged to Colney Hatch,where the details entered onto the "Register of Admissions" provides much of the information given above,but adds:
Education: R&W,
Time insane:6years [ie,since 1885];
physical disorder:self-abuse;
form of disorder:mania
symptoms:incoherence;
bodily state:fair.
The male patients Day Book new series adds,"If first attack,no;previous treatment,Mile End Old Town Workhouse July 1890,Duration of attack 6 months[somebody added in red ink"6 years".Supposed cause unknown[again in red:self abuse];Subject to epilepsy:no Suicidal:no;Dangerous to others:no; Any relative afflcted with insanity: not known: nearest known relative:Woolf Kosminski, 8 Sion Square, Commercial Road East".
end of quote
The next few pages go on to describe aural hallucinations about his being "guided and controlled by an instinct that informs his mind
and some detailed reports viz;
1.4.14 patient has hallucinations of sight and hearing,is very excitable and troublesome at times,very untidy,bodily conditions fair.
The Greater London Record office possesses several documents relating to Aaron Kosminski"s burial arrangements.The undertaker was a Mr Friedlander of Duke Street,United Synagogue,London.Another document is dated 30 March 1919,from G. Friedlander, Sexton,Officer of Burial Society,St. James Place, Aldgate EC3 to AJ Freeman, Leavesdon Asylum,acknowledging receipt of a certificate dated 28 March registering Aaron Kosminski"s death.
With regard to Aaron"s literacy skills its true that it was probably his brother who told them this but there is nothing later to suggest it wasnt the case eg nothing ammended ir crossed out as was the case over the length of his illness.
The only thing I noticed was they didnt put 3"Rs
which would have included Arithmetic. However school"s at that time in Englant were either voluntary aided or Board schools and I suspect Aaron would have attended a "voluntary aided Church School or perhaps the Jewish Community educated their children to be able to read the Old Testament and concentrated mostly on them being able to read and write.
Best Wishes.
Natalie |
Natalie Severn
Chief Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 519
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 3:37 am: |
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Have just realised that Aaron would have been 17 years old when he arrived in England from Poland!He must therefore have learnt these skills in Poland.
I have worked extensively with pupils coming from abroad whose mother tongue isnt English and have studied Linguistics.It would have been no big deal for Aaron to have transferred his literacy skills from Polish to English.However if he spoke
Yiddish and learnt to read and write in Hebrew
that would have been more difficult at first.
In all probability the Jewish community in the East End would have set up community schools where the newly arrived could be given basic English literacy to help them on their way to getting work.
Natalie |
Chris Phillips
Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 265
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 4:13 am: |
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From memory, isn't Kosminski recorded somewhere as speaking German, rather than Polish or Yiddish? I could be wrong, but I think that's the case.
Chris Phillips
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Natalie Severn
Chief Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 521
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 11:05 am: |
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You are right ---I think its also in the Asylum records.On the other hand Yiddish has a lot of "old German" in it so its uncertain what he would actually have used as his first language.
Natalie |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1085
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 11:18 am: |
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Hi Natalie
Just out of interest the G Friedlander you mention above was Gershon Friedlander whose details for 1891 are as follows:
he is listed as lodger at 31 Duke Street, aged 29 and single. His profession is described as "Clerk to Synagogue Burial Society". He was listed as born in London.
The head of the household with whom he was living was Julia Myers aged 67 born St George's East. She is described as a housekeeper and furrier's sewer. The only other occupant listed is Julia's nephew, Mark Myers, aged 31, born City of London. He has no occupation listed but is noted as an "imbecile from birth."
In 1881 Gershon was still living with his family at 16 Gun Square. His parents were Isaac aged 60, born Russia, and Fanny aged 58, born Alsace, France. His father, Isaac, is listed as a traveller in watchmaker's tools. Gershon, then aged 19, is listed as born in Aldgate and profession as "Clerk to Burial Society, United Synagogue". He had a younger brother, Simeon, who is listed in 1881 as aged 16, also born in Aldgate and with profession described as "Apprentice to ticket writing."
All the best
Chris
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Natalie Severn
Chief Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 522
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 1:23 pm: |
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Thats splendid Chris,I was quite taken with the bit I found which is why I quoted it.It really "fleshes" these characters out and adds authenticity to the quest!
Many Thanks
Natalie |
Donald Souden
Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 186
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 2:41 pm: |
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Can anyone satisfy my curiousity and explain why this discussion of Aaron Kominski is on the Fogelma thread? |
Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3027
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 2:49 pm: |
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Hi Donald -
All fixed now.
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper
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Donald Souden
Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 187
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 3:59 pm: |
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Stephen,
Thanks. If only all my questions about life, love and JtR were so easily handled.
Don. |
Natalie Severn
Chief Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 531
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 3:59 am: |
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Thanks Stephen and sorry for that, Natalie |
Mike Barr
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 7:21 pm: |
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Does anybody know whether direct translation of the Goulston Street Grafitti into German or Yiddish would actually make sense in either of those languages? I only ask because my ex wife was German and used to translate verbatim which occasionally didnt make much sense in English |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1449
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 4:25 pm: |
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Mike,
I have often thought that both the spelling and the construction of the writing in Goulston Street
were written by someone whose mother tongue was not English.That said it doesnt mean that it was Aaron Kosminski who wrote it-this was a predominantly Jewish part of Whitechapel so the writer may have been Jewish.
If its read as the work of a person using English as a second language[or third etc] then I think it really does imply that the writer is irked by people blaming the Jews for anything and nothing and that these people will not go on accepting blame for things they didnt do.
But if its read as having been written by the killer who was a native English speaker then it leaves me with questions in my mind about what he meant by it---and that we may never know the answer.
Best Natalie |
Phil Hill
Detective Sergeant
Username: Phil
Post Number: 53
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 3:38 am: |
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The graffito is usually portrayed, of course, as having ANTI-Jewish intent.
Could it not be read AS A POSITIVE STATEMENT BY A JEW to mean that the jews have great accomplishments - ie they have not been responsible for nothing, but for a great deal.
It might then have been written by an inhabitant of the building.
I am not sure I find my thesis here entirely credible myself, and I am certainly not peddling it seriously, but it is a thought.
From all I have read about Kosminski (as well as Cohen or Kaminski) I would not personally assume great literacy either in reading or writing. But I could be wrong. Maybe they were intellectual giants caught in a ghetto from which they could not escape.
I wish we knew more about the suggestion that Joseph Hyam levy had knowledge of a Martin Kosminski. I think that link might open up knowledge of the Kosminski clan if pursued.
Phil |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2849
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 5:36 am: |
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Regarding Chris Phiilips' question earlier...
In Eastern Europe -- and especially Poland -- German is actually the main second language (besides Russian). So if Kosminski at some point should have spoken or rambling in German, this is not strange at all.And if he was a Jew, he probably would have leart Yiddish at home or in the Jewish community.
So he probably spoke Polish--Yiddish--German.
My bet is that he spoke very little or no English, like many other Jews in east End (look at Schwartz, for example)
English, however, he would've had to learn after his arrival in England. You can go almost anywhere in Eastern Europe and if you're using English, no one understands you and it isn't learnt in schools either. Unless we are talking abut highly educated people and those who have attended universities.
All the best
G. Andersson, author
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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mike barr
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 2:19 pm: |
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Thanks Natalie.
i've never been happy about the writing as it leaves more questions than answers. as a serving police officer though i'd have investigated it a lot deeper than appears to have been done. it strikes me that theres more than a hint of frustration in its content..... possibly anger that he had been unable to complete his work at Dutfields earlier in the evening outside a jewish club (assuming Stride was a victim!) Maybe the fact it was written rather than the content gives more of an insight to the murderer. |
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