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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1074
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 12:18 pm: | 
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Contained within the documents that relate the D'Onston/George Marsh/Morgan Davies story, two adresses are quoted, one for Marsh and one for D'Onston. I decided to have a look at these and the results are below:
George Marsh gave his address in 1888 as 24 Pratt Street.
24 Pratt Street, Camden Town
Residents in 1891:
3 households:
1)
Frederick J Danks aged 48 born St Marylebone - Printer's overseer
Fanny E Danks aged 43 born St Marylebone
Children:
Ethel G aged 17 born Guildford
Hilda B aged 14 born St Pancras
Philip A aged 12 born St Pancras
Nellie H aged 8 born St Pancras
Harold S aged 7 born St Pancras
2)
James Ginn aged 25 born Islington - Cigar maker
Elizabeth Ginn aged 26 born Walton on the Naze
3)
George Venables aged 20 born Shoreditch - Printer's compositor
1881
24 Pratt Street listed as a "Private House"
Head:
Sarah Cooper aged 68 born Exeter, Devon
Widowed
Daughter:
Emily Toole aged 28 born Southampton - Laundress
Grandson:
Charles Toole aged 8 born Camden Town
In 1888 D'Onston quoted his address in the "agreement" with George Marsh as 29 Castle Street, St Marton's Lane. The residents of this adress in 1891 census were as follows:
Head:
Frederick Townsend aged 40 born Devizes, Wilts. - Manager of Lodging House
Wife:
Eleanor Townsend aged 37 born Birkenhead, Chester - Manageress of Lodging House
Servants:
William Davies aged 44 born Carmarthen, Wales - Night Porter
Edwin Beckett aged 55 born Manchester - Day Porter
Lodgers:
Fred Powell aged 26 born St. George's, London
William Jeffreys aged 50 born London
William Burgess aged 55 born London - Labourer/Porter
John Smalt aged 28 born St. Giles, London - Painter
Robert Matthews aged 36 born Cambridge - Brewer's Labourer
Edward Clark aged 35 born Cambridge - Brewer's Labourer
James Godden aged 29 born Canterbury - Brewer's Labourer
Jack Hall aged 32 born Cambridge - Builder's Labourer
George Aldridge aged 22 born Isleworth - Greengrocer's carman
Charles Nash aged 21 born Wiltshire - Brewer's labourer
Joe Collett aged 28 born Chigwell, Essex - Brewer's Labourer
In 1881 the Frederick Townsend who became manager of the lodging house at 29 Castle Street was an attendant at a medical establishment or asylum (status unclear) called Northumberland House, Green Lanes, Finsbury, London. The proprietor of this establishment was Francis Wright MD, MRCS, LPA and the Medical Superintendent was Theophilus Turner MRCS. |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 359
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 4:59 pm: |
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Chris...
Amigo, I am a little confused about the location of this address regarding RDS.
Between Goulston and Commercial Sts. are:
1. Castle Alley
2. New Castle Street
3. Old Castle Street
4. Castle Court
5. New Castle Place
...but no Castle Street
Now,am I in the right vicinity here or is St. Martons[ Martins ? ] in another section of London and not in the immediate Whitechapel/Spitalfields area...?
Gracias mi amigo.... |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1991
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 6:05 pm: |
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Hi How
the Castle Street in question is not the Whitechapel one, but in the St Martin in the Fields area.
Chris |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 360
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 6:19 pm: |
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Chris....
How far is that from London Hospital ?
A ballpark figure will do, jefe
Luego.. |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1992
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 6:25 pm: |
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St Martins lane is in the Strand area, just south of Covent Garden, so quite a few miles to Whitechapel |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 361
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 6:36 pm: |
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Hmmm...thanks Chris.
By any chance....do you have a date on this 1888 census...monthwise,that is?
Thanks buddy !
How |
David Knott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dknott
Post Number: 88
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 5:00 am: |
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How,
The 1888 address for D'O comes from Marsh's statement to the police of December 24 - The census is taken in years ending in a '1' in the month of April.
There is, of course, another Castle Street connection, and that is the Castle Street Houndsditch where Morgan Davies set up his medical practice for the London Welsh community. This was renamed Goring Street in 1885.
Not sure whether D'O could have used that as a base, but it was certainly handy for Mitre Sq.
Apparently it was usual for Davies to have visitors long after midnight (although not, presumably, carrying fresh uteri!!)
David |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 363
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 5:20 pm: |
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Dave...
I remember when you posted this at The Forums and completely forgot it ! Thanks very much for reminding me...
It is very close to Mitre Square,isn't it !
Thanks for your help David....
Its strange that he moves to a Castle Street while "ratting" on Davies,who practiced medicine on a former Castle Street,now Goring. |
David Knott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dknott
Post Number: 89
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 5:49 pm: |
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How,
D'Onston's statement is certainly strange!
He accuses Davies of being JtR and then makes a statement full of things that could apply to D'Onston himself just as much as to Davies - including referring to Davies' address by its old name (so that it was the same as his own?)almost as if he is confessing that he is JtR in a round about sort of way. And on his hospital discharge the name Stephenson was obliterated and that of Davies marked in red ink.
Very strange behaviour!!
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Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 364
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 8:10 pm: |
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"....including referring to Davies' address by its old name (so that it was the same as his own?)..."
There is something about this whole affair that has me wondering about the effects of the venereal disease [ which I am still trying to nail down,here,at the Forums,and elsewhere..] he is said to have had. The people I think that may be able to help are beyond reach or not about to share the O'Donnell material,if in fact, it is still to be found.
Personally, I think it is possible he was beginning to feel the effects of tertiary syphilis...that is,if he had contracted it.
I'm not sure how anyone ever got his medical records[ isn't it illegal for hospitals and doctors to divulge these records except to law enforcement personnel ? ] and until we know for sure, I suppose that,too,is up in the air about the guy. In any event,this entire Marsh/Davies affair seems a little crazy. Maybe because it does seem as bizarre as it does is why some dismiss this "blame game" he was into as unimportant or excessively whacky,for want of a word. Looking at how "into' the WM he got [ the GSG explanation...the letter to Roots...the other correspondence with the police...], its as if he was busting a gut to get very involved.....and yet here he is in London Hospital ostensibly for rest...
Your scenario about him possibly "confessing" is viable to me... Its hard to imagine what sort of kick he would get or the reasoning behind blaming Davies,because the doctor would have been cleared and RDS had to know that..
I appreciate you mentioning all you have. I'm still trying to come up with the dope on the venereal disease,but as you know,its hard to do from here...I wanted to start up that thread on Stephenson and His Times, but NEED to get this matter of the syphilis/gonorrhea verified....
....um....RDS' syphilis/gonorrhea,that is, Dave ! |
David Knott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dknott
Post Number: 90
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 4:42 am: |
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Hi How,
Yes, D'Onston's venereal disease is an aspect that could do with looking into - good luck with that (I don't think I'll be much help on that subject!!)
As far as I know, the source is not his medical records, but a passage in the Customs Office records relating to a period of illness ...
'... there is little or no doubt that the illness from which he is now suffering is the result of the discreditable life he leads'.
I don't think Melvin Harris said anything more than that - to be honest the 'illness' could just as easily be drink or drug related on the basis of that brief passage. Perhaps someone on here has more info.
David |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 367
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 5:38 am: |
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Dave...
Exactly. It does look more likely than not, that the reference in the Customs Office records is related to venereal disease....but it is unproven....and like you say,it may deal with excessive drinking and drugging...
This is one of those chestnuts handed down and expected to be accepted as an article of faith...we can't.
But if RDS did have a malady such as syphilis,it could explain the bizarre episodes with Marsh,Davies,et al. |
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