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BAPearce
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 9:13 pm: | 
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Just say the man seen attacking Liz Stride was not Jack but a disgruntled customer who after shoving her to the ground went off.My idea is that maybe Jack saw this happen and used it as an opportunity to get to a woman who was already down so to speak.In the guise of offering to help her he goes up to her and while she is still dazed cuts her throat instead.Just an idea |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 703
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 8:41 am: |
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G'day BA,
I do believe the killer approached Stride to comfort her, and she purposely took him into the yard to 'thank' him!
LEANNE |
Glenn L Andersson
Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 318
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 12:46 pm: |
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G'day BA and Leanne,
I agree with you both, actually; I as well believe the killer took his opportunity to "comfort" her after she had been assalted by the other man. The only thing is that I believe the killer was Jack the Ripper.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 269
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 2:53 pm: |
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Hi,
I Believe the man seen to have attacked Stride was 'Jack', to be realistic that time span is two close. The rough approach is evident in the murder of Nichos, eddowes and stride, And I would take a lot of convincing otherwise.
The cachous are a problem, seeing that she was flung to the ground, one would think , that if she had them in her hand at that time, she would have released them to break her fall, of course she may well have released that little packet, and retrived them when she got up.
She may well have kept them in her hand for the small reminder of her life, and never released them, only explanation!.
Richard. |
Glenn L Andersson
Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 330
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 8:38 am: |
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Hi Richard,
"And I would take a lot of convincing otherwise."
Then I won't bother...
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden
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Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 707
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 9:30 am: |
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G'day,
RICHARD: Do you think Joe was so stupid to murder, just after he was witnessed by at least two men?
The time span was too close was it? How long do you think it would take 2nd man to cross to the other side of the street, if he waited for 1st man to go and ran to her aid?
If she was flung to the ground, why would she be worried about the Cachous? No, No, No, she laid down voluntarily!
Don't worry, we can present two opinions in our book and let readers decide!
LEANNE |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 272
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 4:27 pm: |
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Glenn.
Please do not assume that I am so vain and stubborn , to believe i know best, I am so passionate about this case I read all the comments on these boards, sometimes I give my opinion , sometimes not.
It is just that Leanne and myself have been working hard on this case, and i believe have found some good original material, which may not convince everyone, but what book on this subject can?.
Shannon..
You are very much on the same wavelength as Lea , and myself, I am sure you will be respectful of our joint efforts , when we have the fortune to get this book in the shops.
Richard. |
Andy and Sue Parlour
Sergeant
Username: Tenbells
Post Number: 47
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 3:52 am: |
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The 'Maybrick' watch.
Have you seen the cover for the video of the David Warner film 'Time after Time'?
That video cover illustration was taken from the film poster and was certainly in circulation well before the 'diary'.
Could that be where the idea for the 'watch' came from.
Just a thought.
A. |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 167
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 12:38 pm: |
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I offer this not as conclusive evidence, but as food for thought. I invite you to think back in your minds to occasions when you have slipped or tripped while carrying an item in your hand. Did you hold onto it or drop it?
Having grown up in Chicago, slips on the ice were not uncommon. In reviewing these and other falls (clumsy me!) I can say that there seems to be no clear pattern. Sometimes I have let go of the object in my hand; sometimes I have continued to grasp it. It doesn't even particularly matter how valuable or important it is (unless it is very valuable). Perhaps the most important factor is the degree of surprise. If I am totally surprised by a fall, I am more likely to release the object. If I am already wary before the fall, I am more likely to protect the object.
Andy
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Robert W. House
Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 21
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 3:54 pm: |
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That's a good point Andy. I think a lot of people are assuming she would have dropped the cachous if she had been knocked down suddenly. However, if she was pushed down, and killed rather quickly, she may have instinctively held on to them. It involves sort of subconscious instinctual behavior, not necessarily rational or logical thought on the part of someone acting in self defense.
Rob House |
Bob Hinton
Detective Sergeant
Username: Bobhinton
Post Number: 123
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 12:27 pm: |
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I often wonder why people concoct fantastic solutions to everyday occurrences. Stride, according to the only witness who was there and saw it happen, was approached by a man who attacked her immediately. If that person had been a stranger Stride would have screamed the street down. But she didn't, in fact according to the witness she hardly made any sound at all.
Stride was attacked by someone who knew her and she him. What started as a 'routine' beating escalated into a cut throat. Strides murder bears no resemblance to any of the other killings. Forget about the body wasn't mutilated because....... The fact is the wounds on her body bear little or no resemblance to the wounds on any other victim. Her throat was cut because that is practically the only way to kill someone with an unsuitable weapon, such as a blunt round ended knife.
Can anyone give a list of reasons as to why they think Stride was killed by the same killer of the other victims? They boil down to 'she was killed at the same time' That ain't enough!! Let me ask the question. If Stride was killed in Manchester would anyone associate it with Jack the Ripper? Answer no.
Bob Hinton |
BAPearce
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 1:02 am: |
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It is so interesting to read everyones opinions.I think that she did not have time to get up that Jact came up to her as she was still lying there.The cachous are an interesting point.I also find it interesting that both the doctors claim to have been the one to remove them from her hand |
Caroline Anne Morris
Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 400
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 1:11 pm: |
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Hi Andy P,
Could that be where the idea for the 'watch' came from.
No - IMHO.
Unless Albert Johnson is the best actor in the world. Either way, he hasn't cashed in on his talents, or those of someone known to him.
Hi Bob,
How exactly 'escalated'? Why didn't Stride manage to 'scream the street down', or scratch her attacker to pieces, or get herself some pretty impressive defence wounds during this escalation? If her acquaintance went from pushing her around a little bit to slitting her throat before she could tell he was intent on doing her bodily harm, I don't see the escalation any more than she did.
A man has been charged with the recent Croydon double event - an attempted murder followed by a murder, in which the modes of attack and injuries inflicted did not resemble each other. The injuries inflicted on the woman who was killed do however closely resemble the injuries inflicted on a previous non-fatal attack the police are linking to the same man. If the 18 year-old is found guilty, it is said he may become Britain's youngest convicted serial sex attacker.
Just pointing out that such things can and do happen.
Love,
Caz
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Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 895
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 1:57 pm: |
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Bob, why do you say that the knife was round ended?
Robert |
Bob Hinton
Detective Sergeant
Username: Bobhinton
Post Number: 124
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 5:59 pm: |
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Dear Caz,
I'm not quite sure what your point is. If Stride was attacked by a complete stranger, she would have started screaming then. She wouldn't have waited till he knocked her around a bit then pulled out a knife. She didn't make too much fuss because she had been through it all before. By the time she was being choked prior to having her throat cut it was too late.
The point is insurmountable. Nobody at that time would allow a complete stranger to assault them without making a great deal more fuss than she did.
Also every other aspect of this killing says it is not a Ripper killing. If you think it does point to the Ripper then explain points of similarity.
Bob |
Caroline Anne Morris
Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 402
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 8:04 am: |
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Hi Bob,
Sorry, when you said 'escalated', I imagined you meant a more gradual increase in the man's angry and violent behaviour while Stride was still conscious and able to react to that escalation.
If the man was Michael Kidney, for instance, and went from knocking her about a bit, without causing her to make much fuss (while witnesses were still around), to rendering her unconscious and unable to make any fuss at all (once he was on his own with her), he can't have given away his intentions to do her real harm this time, which, to me, seems rather unlikely for an abusive and violent man who had no doubt had a few beers and was spoiling for a fight with his wayward girlfriend.
So I am beginning to think a disgruntled regular punter of Stride's would fit better than Kidney with the reported reactions of both attacker and victim, although I'm not convinced by any of the non-ripper murder scenarios.
My point in mentioning the Croydon double event is that there were few points of similarity between the attempted murder and murder (apart from female victims, location and timing, and use of physical violence), but nevertheless the same man is reported to have definitely been responsible for both attacks.
So I personally wouldn't want to rule the ripper out of the Stride murder on the basis of the dissimilarities with other accepted ripper crimes.
Love,
Caz |
Mark Greene
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 5:57 pm: |
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Hi Bob,
I do belive that Stride was killed by the same hand that killed the other four.
My reasons:
1.Descriptions of the men seen by both Schwartz and Lawende are so similar.
2.The killer opened the same carotid artery as in the majority of the other killings.
3.Like the others,he cut Stride's throat whilst she was on the ground.
I must point out here that it is my opinion that Stride had made some attempt to protect herself should she encounter the killer.I believe that Long Liz had worn the scarf and tied it quite tightly making sure her throat wasn't exposed.I think this had two effects.
Firstly it slowed the Ripper down,leaving him no time to carry out any mutilation.
Secondly I think the tight scarf prevented the killer from producing a clean wound and he had struggled to eventually expose and slit her throat. All of this gave the impression that a different weapon had been used.
Evidence tends to support this as it tells us that the bottom edge of Stride's scarf was ragged as if hacked at with a knife.
Mark
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Sarah
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 9:44 am: |
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Bob,
If someone had just attacked Stride and he wasn't JTR then surely he would have just slit her throat and killed her not totally mutilate it like the other canonical victims. Her throat was said to have been "deeply gashed" not just slit. This is the same as the other victims and I do not where the problem is in Stride being a ripper vitim. To me she is obviously one of his. |
Annie Caroline Boogaerdts
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 10:47 am: |
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Maybe, just maybe the ripper was indeed still on the place of the murder, as Diemschutz thought, according to his pony's behaviour, so if indeed Jack as still somewhere in the dark, he couldn't finish is job but easily get away while the other men took care of elisabeth and didn't notice or even see him in the dark |
Brandon Krogh
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 7:29 pm: |
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Just a thought. The debate over the Stride murder seems to go a)Jack didn't do it because of the absence of his trademark mutilations, or b)it was Jack, he was scared off and thus had to find another victim to satisfy his blood-lust. Well, what about the possibility that the 'double event' was pre-planned with one murder to take place in Metropolitan jurisdiction and one in the City? He could hardly pick up a second victim if his clothes arms and hands were bloody. Another interesting point is Eddowes apron. He didn't take the whole apron but only cut a piece off of it. He then holds onto it for blocks discarding it in Metropolitan territory. Perhaps he was aware of the dissension in the ranks and was purposely stirring the pot a bit just for jolly. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 688
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 3:55 pm: |
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Hi Brandon,
I tend to agree with you that the double event was planned, I do tend to believe that the killers intention, was to just kill, one victim[ stride] and then go on to complete a fearful mutalation on the next.
I do not believe he was worried about approaching the victim Eddowes with blood on his person, for i believe he atacked eddowes in the square , after she had left the man dressed in sailor like attire. he was more concerned that he would not be blood saturated, after killing Stride, for he still had to make his way to his next port of call. which happened to be Mitre square.
Richard. |
Brandon Krogh
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 12:38 am: |
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Hello Richard,
Thank you for your comments. I'm just wondering, does anyone else believe the location of Mitre Square (i.e. in the city as opposed to the metropolitan jurisdiction) for his next murder was random or planned?
Brandon |
axel busolin
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 5:19 pm: |
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Guys,just a thought,maybe liz stride had her cachous in her hand but dropped them,then tried to pick them up but tripped over onto the floor and then grabbed them meanwhile, behind her,jack gets his knife out and then slashes her throat,she could still have them in her hand!? (please keep in mind i am only 10years old.) |
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