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Alek Mackie
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 1:12 pm: |       |
Hi,
For a school project i am required to write about how the press hindered the JTR case. I was reading through some of The Star newspaper collums and noticed on September 8, 1888 the headlines read: A FOURTH VICTIM OF THE MANIAC.
now this is reffering to Annie Chapman, to my knowledge only the second victim.
So does anyone out there happen to know who the first two victims The Star say were? It would be greatly appreciated for any sort of response. |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 156
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 1:36 am: | |
I would presume the other two to be Tabram and Smith. Check the Victims page of casebook.org for more details.
Andy |
Alan Sharp
Sergeant
Username: Ash
Post Number: 27
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 4:48 am: | |
Alek
From the same edition of the Star
THE SCENE OF THE FOUR CRIMES
The above sketch shows the localities of the four murders. No. 1 shown in the bottom left hand corner indicates the spot where a woman unidentified was found murdered by having a stick or iron instrument thrust into her body. This crime passed off very quietly. It was put down as a drunken freath of some of the nameless ruffians who swarm about Whitechapel.
No. 2 was the crime of Osborne-street. The scene was laid near the first murder, and a woman was found stabbed in 36 places, lying outside George’s-buildings. The impression made by this affair soon died away. The crime was a horrible one, but not a witness was called at the inquest who could throw any light on the matter. The excitement died from sheer lack of fact to
support any theory.
No. 3, the Buck’s-row Murder, the scene of which is indicated by a cross in the top right-hand corner, is still too fresh in its horrid details in the public mind to need recapitulation. It has been closely followed by
No. 4, shown by the cross at the top left-hand corner is the crime which has shocked all London to-day.
From this, the previous two murders referred to can be assumed to be Emma Smith and Martha Tabram. If you are unfamiliar with these cases though, look into them as the details here are inaccurate. Smith was not "found murdered" on that spot but pointed it out to her helpers later as she was being taken to hospital. Tabram was stabbed 39 times not 36. |
Neil K. MacMillan
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 78
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 4:56 pm: | |
Absolutely look into it as Alan stated Alek, I hope in the interim your project came out well.
In my humble opinion Emma Smith was not a victim of Jack the Ripper. mant researchers do not believe Martha Tabram was either but I personally think she was. Emma Smith stated before she dies that she was assaulted by three men. She dies or periodonitis(sp?) after having a blunt object forced into her vagina. I would speculate that it was a cosh (billy club) but could have been a bottle (as was used to kill actress Virginia Rappe approximately fourty years later.) Read plenty and remember follow the evidence before you make a theory. Kindest regards, Neil |
DeadxDaisies
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 11:54 am: | |
Hello,
I have to say that I highly doubt Emma Smith was a victim of JtR. Absolutely nothing points anywhere near the really distinct Ripper cases. She was attacked by a gang.... and died of a stab to the Peritioneum. Her face was beaten and her ear cut.... not exactly telltale signs of JtR. All the other killings and evidence point to a sole killer. In my opinion, I don't even think the men intended to murder her... but they were violent, and cruel.... like animals they went too far, violently sodomizing her.... and she ended up dead as a result.
I suppose Martha Tabram could have been a victim of JtR, but if so, he failed and I am a bit skeptical. In the other killings he had a distinct purpose. He was searching for something. With Martha, it seems the only thing the killer wanted was death as a result and succeeded. Also, the wounds speak of a crime of passion.... and an unplanned, unorganized one at that.
The murders of Nichols, Chapman, Stride, Eddowes and Kelly, all seem cold, and that of a ruthless, thoroughly planned out killing. The murderer was methodical, and seemed to be searching for something he was entirely certain of. |
Neil K. MacMillan
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 79
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 4:19 pm: | |
DeadxDasies:
I'm interested in your theory that Jack had a purpose in the five canonical murders. Could you kindly elaborate on that?
My opinion is that Martha Tabram was Jack's first murder and I'm not convinced that he was as cold and calculating as some might believe. However, I like to think I have an open mind and would like to hear why you think he failed with Martha Tabram. After all, he wanted all of the victims dead. As a point, I think his crimes were quite passionate especially if he first slit the victim's throats. When I think of dispassionate killings I think more of things like mob hits
Emma Smith died as a result of a blunt object being forced into her vagina. As I recall, she was not stabbed but beaten and sexually assualted with the blunt object I just mentioned. My guess is the men who murdered her were extortionists who wanted their cut of Emma's meagre earnings but that like so much else in the area of research is speculation. Kindest regards, Neil |
Frank van Oploo
Inspector
Username: Franko
Post Number: 247
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 1:44 pm: | |
Hi Neil & DxD,
I tend to agree more with Neil. I think Martha Tabram might have been an early Ripper victim. There are too many similarities between this case and at least the cases of the mutilated victims to discard the possibility that she was one. These similarities being the victim’s profession, her age, where she was killed, the position of her body, her open legs, the disarranged clothes, the skirts pushed up and the use of a knife.
Besides, although Martha’s throat wasn’t cut like the other victims, there were 9 stab wounds there and there was one cut (3 inches long and 1 inch deep) along her abdomen, and according to this site there seems to have been at least one wound to her vagina. I don’t see her murder as a crime of passion, which implies a relation of some sort, but rather as a crime of anger and I think that if she was an early Ripper victim, he might not have known exactly what he wanted yet, only that he was angry.
Neil, you wrote: “After all, he wanted all of the victims dead.”
I agree with that, however, I see it slightly differently: his objective was to mutilate, for which he needed his victims dead.
You also wrote: “As a point, I think his crimes were quite passionate especially if he first slit the victim's throats.”
I think the throat cutting was probably part of the M.O. (and not of the signature), which served two (functional) purposes. Obviously, it quickly killed his victims if they weren’t already dead by strangulation, as a result of which he could start to enact his primary aim, the mutilation. But also, it caused his victims to loose a lot of blood quickly, so that he could mutilate without getting much blood on him.
This is how I see things at the moment, but that doesn’t mean I’m right.
All the best,
Frank
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Neil K. MacMillan
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 81
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 4:29 pm: | |
Frank;
I agree about the purposes severing the throat would fufill. Much would depend on his approach but there is a case to be made that using a knife adds that "personal touch" A gun is a stand-off weapon with the knife or a garrote you're up close and personal.
I may have misused the word passion. Re-reading your thread I tend to agree that he did not know the victims except maybe by casual sight. When I used the word passion I meant emotion such as hatred. I don't believe it was cold and impersonal. he might not have known the victims but he had a score to settle with them. Hopefully this clears up my meaning a bit. All the best, Neil |
Paul Jackson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 83
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 10:04 pm: | |
Hey Guys,
My opinion, too, is that Martha T. was a JTR victim. I am not of the opinion that Smith fell to the ripper. I think she got the short end of a street thug (thugs) stick.
I do believe that the botched attempt on Annie Millwood was an early "Saucy Jacky" attack. He obviously hadnt his technique yet.
Paul |
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