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Richard Brian Nunweek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 111
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2003 - 10:49 am: |       |
Hi everyone,
Whilst browsing through a few Ripper books on this quiet sunday afternoon, it suddenly struck me looking at the victims features how similar some were.
For instance Tabram, Nichols, and Chapman look very much alike, Stride and Eddowes are similar but are not like the other three, is it not possible therefore that the killer was looking for chapman and Eddowes only and the others were a case of mistaken identity.
At the time of her death Chapman was living at the infamous 35, Dorset Street, whereas Eddowes had been staying at some point in the shed in Millers court.
This mayby be a wild theory, but if you look at the pictures of these women you will see what I mean.
Richard. |
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 57
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 12:07 pm: | |
Hi Richard
Interesting. Although I disagree about Tabram, I think she is a much larger woman then Nichols and Chapman. There is I agree a certain similarity between Nichols and Chapman, and in the dark and gloom of the East End it would be difficult to tell them apart from a distance.
As for Stride and Eddowes, I don't believe Stride was a Ripper victim, and I believe she was a good few inches taller than Eddowes, but I could be wrong on this.
Rob
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 114
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 1:35 pm: | |
Hi Robert,
You are right in the height difference between Stride, and Eddowes, but their bone structure facially is similar.
As I stated , mayby a wild theory, and we would have to asertain the motive for searching for Chapman and Eddowes by the killer, as i have mentioned on another thread, it is entirely possible that Chapman and Eddowes were known to each other , and that the killer had a grudge against them both.
My aim on these boards is to try and conjure up as many ideas as I can that are plausable scenerios, for discussion, for it is apparent that a simple answer has not shown itself to date, and the answer to this riddle may show itself to be different then we have imagined up to this moment in time.
Richard. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Sergeant
Username: Caz
Post Number: 23
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 12:21 pm: | |
Hi Richard,
If Jack held a grudge, it may have been due to an earlier unfortunate encounter he had with one particular but anonymous unfortunate where he had come off worse - perhaps she robbed or cheated him, or had him turned over by a pimp or partner, or she could simply have humiliated him in some way. He may not even have been seeking her services, she could have offered them and hurled abuse when he declined. But how lowering must it have been if the boot was on the other foot, and he found himself despised, ill-used or rejected by a woman who was herself the lowest of the low?
Either way, the average man would get over it. But one who was already teetering on the edge might easily topple over into seeking revenge from any woman who appeared or acted like the nameless hag who had stripped him of his material possessions or just his dignity, then lived to tell the tale and repeat the insult.
Jack the Victim could have seen this woman's face on every one of his own victims, and felt compelled to strip her, over and over again, of all that reminded him of the whore she was, from her earnings if she had any, to the body parts that allowed her to do the damage she did.
But Jack would have found this woman on every street corner, and the task of taking back what she owed him never-ending. Could the facial mutilations on Eddowes and Kelly be an indication of growing frustration at his inability to destroy the original beast once and for all? Every time he gets rid of her, the damned woman pops up again in a similar guise. While it's possible that Eddowes or Kelly came closer to his own mental picture of ‘the enemy’, it’s equally possible that each victim was getting further and further removed from it, or at least it could seem that way to Jack if a once razor sharp impression of her features was fading from his memory. I imagine the terrible effects on their faces and bodies could have been much the same whether he was able to see ‘her’ as he struck, or, being unable to recognise her in his later victims, he played with or destroyed their features so he could avoid facing the fact that none of them were really ‘her’ at all.
But I’m afraid I see little reason to believe Jack must have known any of these women personally to do what he did, or that any of them were cases of mistaken identity - and no good evidence that the victims knew one another either.
Love,
Caz
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 118
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 6:26 am: | |
Hi Caz,
I agree that the killer would not have to have known these women, but I believe that at least Chapman, Eddowes , and Kelly must have known each other if only by sight, Chapman used to live a couple of houses away from Kelly and at the time of her death she lived opposite at no 35, and Eddowes stayed in the shed adjoining room 13..
It is amazing how one can change opinions regarding this case I am now starting to believe, that our killer seeked out suitable victims and gave them a Hankerchief to wear of an expensive kind, in order to be able to identify his intended victim at a later date.
I dont really know if that is a plausible scenerio, but as i said on another thread, Whitechapel was such a densely populated area that if the killer planned his murders for certain dates which I believe he did, then he had to be able to identify the victim that he had accosted previously, and the hankerchief would do just that, he simply would have frequented the pubs of whitechapel on the days he planned, until he found one of his victims, he may have given quiet a number of these items away, and the chances are that he would find one of his targets on the nights in question,
Sorry if my imagination is running away, but as I have said many times I like to explore every avenue, and suggest as many ideas as possible , some plausible others not so.
Regards Richard. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 121
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 8:25 am: | |
Hi Everyone,
Back to the mistaken identity point.
The very first correspondence if you discount the 17th sept one which is seen to be a hoax[ Modern] seems to add more fuel to my idea.
Dated 24th Sept 88 it states.
Dear Sir,
I do wish to give myself up, I am in misery with nightmare, i am the man who committed all these murders in the last six months, I have found the WOMAN I WANTED THAT IS CHAPMAN..and i have done what I called slaughtered her, if any one comes i will surrender but i am not going to walk to the station by myself.
Yours Truely
[Silhouette of coffin] [ Silhouette of knive]
This is the knife i have done these murders with it is a small handle with a long large blade sharp both sides..
My Point is it states I have done the woman I had wanted that is chapman ...Therefore implying that he was after that woman in particular.also it implies that he is having a concious, and nightmares which could point to the fact that the others were a mistake.
As this letter was the first recorded correspondence it is most likely to be the original and most likely the only true Ripper letter.
Mistaken Identity I believe is highly likely.
Richard. |
Marie Finlay
Detective Sergeant
Username: Marie
Post Number: 131
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 5:56 pm: | |
Hi Richard, I'm afraid I just can't go with the red handkerchief idea, personally.
But I'd forgotten all about that letter. That's quite interesting, I'll have to think on it a while. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 123
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 4:33 am: | |
Hi Marie,
Regarding the neckerchiefs, as i said that was tonque in cheek, But that letter which as I said was dated 24th sept, therefore the first correspondence does imply that Chapman was the intended victim, and as the previous victims Tabram, and Nichols were strikenly similar in appearence,he could have killed them in error,which would explain the words I am in misery with nightmares.
You could well be right with Tabram, however the letter stated I am the man who has committed all these murders [ note plural].
So in my mind the killer of these women was looking for chapman, but we do not know the motive.
If she was serving in a spitalfields market pub, shortly before her death, then the killer almost certainly followed her from the pub, and approached her in Hanbury Street, and asked for her services.
She appeared not to be alarmed by his presence, therefore I doubt if she reconized her assailant, and obviously he did not know her intimately, otherwise he would not have killed two other women in error.
So what can we deciever from this, a contract killing?. Did someone from Chapmans past want her dead, and the killer had only her physical description and regular haunts to go by?.
I think that this letter dated 24th sept , should be taken seriously, and if analyzed word for word, then the paragraph above is very plausible.
Regards Richard. |
Marie Finlay
Detective Sergeant
Username: Marie
Post Number: 134
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 11:39 am: | |
Hi Richard,
You're right, that letter is interesting. I'm not sure what to make of it, though. I'm not overly convinced by the contract killing idea.
Could it be someone trying to pin the blame for the murders on someone they didn't like, hoping the police would pick them up?
Was it ever investigated? |
joelle
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 12:43 pm: | |
Hello everyone.
I am doing a 5 to 7 research report on Jack the Ripper.... does anyone have any suggestions of maybe .... what i should right about specifically. Or any good information that may lead me in the direction to writing a good report? thank you. Joelle} |
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