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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1529
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 8:57 pm: |       |
Hi Paul,
Yes, I know; that is also why I would treat the Star interview with a lot of caution. There are several things that seems elaborated to a great extent (as usual), and it is also possible that the Star used a different interpreter (or a worse one) than the police did. But, as we know, news-paper articles does not represent the most reliable sources.
Anyhow, I think the man's conduct seems drunk either way. He doesen't have to be, but I would personally bet on it, considering the irrational and aggressive behaviour. But unfortunately we can't be sure.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Paul Jackson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 116
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 10:55 pm: | |
Hey Glenn,
Ya know....The Pipeman (according to the Star)
was about 5'11 and had a reddish thick mustache.
Sounds a little like Tumblety.....but you know my views on Tumblety. I just thought it was interesting. Is there any info on exactly where the pipeman appeared from? The books just refer to a public house.....what is a public house?
A rooming house? A whorehouse? Do we have an
address? Reports say he was on the other side of the street from Dutfield...ok.....the boarding school is also directly across the street as well, so where is this "public house"?
Where is Chris when we need him.
It must be 5:00 am in Sweden....do you ever sleep?
Paul |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1535
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 2:38 am: | |
Hey Paul,
Apparently there was a pub on Berner Street at the same side of the street as Dutfield's Yard, on the corner with Fairclough Street, next to Matthew Packer's shop.
But what it's called, I have no idea.
No, I don't sleep...
Seriously, I do, but I'm a night owl and my work is home-based, so I have no regular hours.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 992
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 11:27 am: | |
Ahem, Glenn,
But no, he was not Jack the Ripper - in your opinion. 
Love,
Caz
X
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1540
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 12:36 pm: | |
Naturally, Caz. Naturally. Well, you know me by now, right... 
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Paul Jackson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 120
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 6:23 pm: | |
Hey Glenn,
How's it going? I found something interesting...
regarding the public house the "pipeman" was exiting. The address was 26 Berner Street...a pub called "The Nelson", apparently at the corner of Fairclough and Berner. The pub owner was a man named Louis Hagens. I ran across this tidbit in a footnote in Paul Begg's A Definitive History. 
Whats not clear is if he was exiting the club or if he was just standing in front of the club...
whatever....If he had been in the club that night, it seems that the police would have tracked down that nights customers and tried to ascertain the identity of the "pipeman". If that was possible. Surely someone in the club could have shed some light on the guy's identity. But, they may have tried to do so, but, to my knowledge, there is no record of that. Just thought you might find that interesting. Regards.
Paul |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1542
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 6:56 pm: | |
Hey Paul,
Thank you for the information indeed.
I tried to find the name of the public house on old maps and in the A-Z, but with no success.
According to the Star interview, the pipe-man -- as far as I recall -- (there his clay-pipe has turned into a knife instead) came out of the public house to chase Schwartz away, while he in the police statement is just standing on the street to begin with.
Unfortunately we do not have Schwartz's original statement for the police, just a summarised account in the police files, written down in retrospect, so my bet is that there are a few details missing from his police statement, which to some extent could corroborate the story in the Star -- except from the parts that is clearly contradicts it and seems elaborated, of course. Like the part in the Star interview, where Schwartz already is spotting Mr Broad Shoulders walking in front of him, clearly intoxicated, and stops to talk to and then assault Stride. It is just possible that this was a true detail that may have been in the original statement. But of course, it could also just simply be another elaboration for the sake of the article, and if that's the case, the police wasn't aware of the information about the pipe-man coming out of the pub, when they searched the street. We just simply don't know.
Yes, the police may have checked the public house, and I do think the police searched all the addresses in the vicinity, but it is quite possible that if the information about the man coming out of the pub only appeared in the paper, the police just might not have known about it in the first place.
I think the whole pipe-man issue is a frustrating one. Why didn't this man come forward as a witness and why was he never identified? If he had been, he could have at least corroborated parts of Schwartz's story. A bit of a shame.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Bullwinkle
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 1:24 pm: | |
"Apparently there was a pub on Berner Street at the same side of the street as Dutfield's Yard, on the corner with Fairclough Street, next to Matthew Packer's shop.
But what it's called, I have no idea."
>>It was called The Nelson, and was not a pub but a beer tavern not serving hard liquor.
Generally speaking,the above extended discussion is marred by a lack of ironic feeling. People are taking strict, inflexible positions on a subject that is anything but inflexible. Loosen it up, give youselves a chance. You've got nothing to lose. Sit down with Cornford's translations of the dialogues of Plato, and learn about irony. This will do you a world of good in interpreting the case.
B.
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Cludgy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 12:16 pm: | |
Sat down and had a peek at Cornford's translations of the dialouges of Plato.
And it's an irony of irony's in my case.
For you see, the only reason you are subjected to my twitterings on this website, lies in the fact that six months ago I typed Doctor Finleys Casebook into a search engine, and the engine came up with Jack The Ripper Casebook.
Wouldn't have been here otherwise.
Ironic or what?
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Paul Jackson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 146
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 8:47 pm: | |
Hey Bullwinkle,
Yes...the Nelson....thats it. the address was 26 Berner street. Footnote in Paul Beggs Definitive History. Thanks.
Paul |
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