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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1244
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 12:26 pm: |       |
Found this passage today in an article published 5 october 1888:
In connection with the Mitre square murder, it may be mentioned that the foreman of the sewer hands who are engaged at Aldgate in sweeping the streets and clearing away the refuse, &c., in the early hours of the morning, has stated most positively that at the time when the murder is supposed to have been perpetrated, he was standing not more than 20 yards away from the spot where the body was subsequently found by the constable and himself. He states emphatically that he never heard any woman's cries for help, nor did any sounds of a struggle reach his ear.
The wording is ambiguous - it is not clear whether he means he was with the constable when he found the body or came across it independently.
Anyone know anything more about this account?
Chris |
Alex Chisholm
Detective Sergeant
Username: Alex
Post Number: 105
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 1:20 pm: | |
Hi Chris
In addition to an entry in the Pall Mall Gazette, 5 Oct. 1888, page 8, which is exactly as you posted above, the Star, 4 Oct. 1888, page 2 reported:
“Only Twenty Yards Away.
In connection with the Mitre-square murder, the foreman of the sewer hands who are engaged at Aldgate in sweeping the streets in the early hours of the morning has stated most positively that at the time when the murder is supposed to have been perpetrated he was standing not more than 20 yards away from the spot where the body was found. He never heard any woman’s cries for help, nor any sounds of a struggle.”
While the same story was covered in the Daily Telegraph, 5 Oct. 1888, page 3 as follows:
“In connection with the risk which her murderer ran of detection on Sunday morning last, it is mentioned that the foreman of the sewer hands in Aldgate is positive that he was standing within a short distance of the spot where the body was found by the constable Watkins at the time when it is supposed the crime was committed. He heard no cries for help.”
Best Wishes
alex
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1248
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 1:30 pm: | |
Alex
Many thanks for these.
Interesting that it is only the Pall Mall article that mentions the foreman being involved in finding the body.
All the best
Chris
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Alex Chisholm
Detective Sergeant
Username: Alex
Post Number: 106
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 3:14 pm: | |
Thanks Chris
The PMGs wording is intriguing, particularly as this was the latest of the above editions to be issued.
Is it likely that the PMG would elaborate on the earlier Star report in such a way? Or is the PMG the more accurate version of a report which the Star and Telegraph simply summarised?
In light of the other accounts of the discovery of Eddowes’ body, I think the Star & Telegraph accounts may be preferable.
All the Best
alex
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Jeff Hamm
Inspector
Username: Jeffhamm
Post Number: 403
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 5:37 pm: | |
Very interesting! Since this fellow makes no mention of seeing anyone leave Mitre Square, and doesn't appear at the inquest, we would have to assume either the story is untrue (always a concern) or that the Ripper does not flee out the main entrance of Mitre Square (which is not a popular option anyway). This does seem to suggest the escape route is through the alley towards the market, then out towards Goulston Street.
- Jeff |
Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 760
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 10:19 am: | |
Hi, Chris and Alex:
Chris, you stated, "it is only the Pall Mall article that mentions the foreman being involved in finding the body." However, I don't think we can assume that. What I derive from the slightly different versions of this story is that "the foreman of the sewer hands in Aldgate" came forward after the murder with the information that he believed he was standing within a short distance of the spot where the body was found by Constable Watkins at the time when it is supposed the crime was committed. In other words, he wasn't involved in the discovery of the body, only that he realized, in retrospect, that he was in the vicinity when the murder was believed to have taken place but that he saw and heard nothing. I wonder if we could come up with a name for "the foreman of the sewer hands in Aldgate." I should think that there is a good possibility that the job category as reflected in the news reports would have been given the same way in the censuses, or else perhaps he could be tracked down through City of London records.
Best regards
Chris George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info |
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