| Author |
Message |
    
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1032
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 12:25 pm: |       |
Chris Scott,
Howdy mate.
I was just wondering if you have/would be able to obtain any info on a Susan Ward.
Im sure you know the details but just in case....
....A woman was (according to a local rag, the name of which I shall try to find this weekend but if anyone can help...) attacked just off the Commercial Rd around the 13th or 15th September, a week or so after Chapmans murder. It was a straight knife attack and no stragulation was involved. Her screams scared off the attacker. The only woman to be admitted to the London Hospital with injuries that may have come from such an attack was a Susan Ward.
Any info you have would be gratefully received.
Only if your bored though.
Many thanks,
Monty
Our little group has always been and always will until the end... |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1187
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 4:00 am: | |
Hi Monty
Assuming she lived in the East End area there are three that might be of interest from the 1891 census:
Susan Ward
1891 Census
1) 25 Hollybush Gardens, Bethnal Green
Susan Ward aged 48 born Bethnal Green
2) 9 Underwood Street, Mile End New Town
Susan Ward aged 35 born Bethnal Green
3) 16 Albion Street, Mile End Old Town
Susan Ward aged 23 born Stratford, Essex
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1033
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 4:24 am: | |
Chris,
Thankyouthankyouthankyou
Cheers Mate.
That must be about 5 pints I owe you now......
....heres hoping you're teetotal !!
Monty
Our little group has always been and always will until the end... |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1391
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 6:22 am: | |
Hi,
so really should we talk about Susan Ward on this thread?
Jenni |
Robert W. House
Detective Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 133
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 6:44 am: | |
Yes Jen,
I agree we should. Unfortunately I have nothing to contribute although according to the press report it sound reminiscent to the attack on Stride by man #1.
Recopied from Monty's post on the other thread:
See also the Daily Telegraph 3/10/88. Page 3.
http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/daily_telegraph/dt881003.html
Quoted…
“There is reason to believe that the monster of whom policemen and "Vigilants" are still eagerly but fruitlessly in quest attempted another outrage upon a woman of loose conduct some time between the date of Annie Chapman's murder and last Sunday morning. As we are informed, the metropolitan police have for several days past been in possession of every detail of this woman's startling narrative, a full account of which will be found in another column. Here we will merely observe that she was admitted ten days ago to a London hospital, in which a serious cut on her arm was treated; and that she has solemnly declared that she received the injury in question whilst protecting her throat from an attempt made to cut it by a man who, having engaged her in conversation and struck an immoral bargain with her, tripped her up, threw her heavily on the pavement, and attacked her, knife in hand, with murderous intent.“
Steven Willments (sp?) checked the London Hospital records and the only female matching the injuries described who was admitted around that time was a female named Susan Ward. |
Robert W. House
Detective Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 134
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 6:51 am: | |
This also, from the Daily Telegraph:
"An alarming story was told to a detective yesterday, and it is understood that the Metropolitan police have for some time been cognisant of its details. If this statement be true, and there appears to be no reason to question it, then some time between the date of the Hanbury-street murder and last Sunday the bloodthirsty maniac who is now terrifying Whitechapel unsuccessfully attempted another outrage. The woman who so narrowly escaped death is married, but she admits having entered into conversation with a strange man for an immoral purpose. She alleges that he tripped her up, so that she fell upon the pavement. He made an effort to cut her throat, but she shielded herself with her arm, and in so doing received a cut upon it. Alarmed by his failure, and fearing her shrieks, the would-be murderer ran off, and the woman, when discovered, was removed to the hospital. She has since been discharged, and the wound upon the arm is still to be seen. The occurrence is alleged to have taken place ten days ago, in a bye-turning off Commercial-street. Unfortunately the woman was so much in liquor when she was assaulted that she cannot recollect the man's face or dress, and has been unable to give a description of him, which may account for the secrecy which has been maintained in regard to the attack."
RH |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3668
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 8:25 am: | |
I did a quick check on the "Times" for examples of trippings-up during that period, and hardly any women seem to have been tripped up. But there are numerous examples of either policemen being tripped up while taking a man to the station, or of thieves tripping up victims in order to steal their watches etc. So if Ward was an intended victim of Jack, maybe he'd graduated from street theft.
Robert |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1448
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 11:47 am: | |
Guys,
Having looked into the details of this attack it hit me that I may have found a reason to a question I posed some time ago. That is why the Met searched a particular area that missed 3 murder sites, see...
...../4920/6629.html"../../clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>
Fear. Fear attracts the fearful. The strong. The weak. The innocent. The corrupt. Fear. Fear is my ally. |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1394
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 11:58 am: | |
Hi Monty,
I am not sure that I am following. No that's a lie, I am sure that I am not following.
when on earth did the Met search an area that missed three of the murder sites??
I wonder if this lady Ms. Ward got lucky in the sense she wasn't killed.
You mentioned the police file still exists? wouldnt the police have put it with the whitecahpel murder files if tey thought it connected?
Thats far too much rambling from me - help me out here my brain seems to have desserted me!!
Jenni
|
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 393
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 12:07 pm: | |
The article points up a reason why he probably was never apprehended. I read it eagerly, anxious to discover Susan's description of the man and was disappointed to discover that she was so drunk she couldnt recall what he looked like.
If he always chose those who were very drunk, any unsuccessful attempts would have been a bit more safe, as the woman's recollection would be impaired. Yet, she remembered the attack itself, it seems in detail. Possibly she was afraid to describe him lest he come after her again?
You're right, it is reminiscent of the attack on Stride and if it did take place "ten days ago" that would have been Saturday the 23rd of September, very much within his pattern. The location sounds right too. |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1450
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 12:10 pm: | |
Jenni,
October 1888. The area didnt include Bucks Row, Berner St or Mitre Sq, remember Kelly was murdered after the search, so 3 out of the then four sites were missed.
Mitre sq was City so I could forgive that and Berner st may have been judged too far south and therefore unique but Bucks Row?
Thinking on, maybe the attacks on Tabram and Smith helped sway the choice of search area.
Apparently, according to the A-Z, it is with the Whitechapel murder file.
Monty
Fear. Fear attracts the fearful. The strong. The weak. The innocent. The corrupt. Fear. Fear is my ally. |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1396
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 12:24 pm: | |
Monty,
I just emailed you saying i should read the A-Z and there you go proving me right! Ah, it is with the whitechapel murder files, well i guess the police did think it connected then.
Why wouldn't the area cover Bucks Row! That's extremely odd. and also wouldn't you expect it to cover Berner St because it was most recent? as you say Mitre Sq would be the City polices job.
What were they thinking? Were they just under funded or something?
Jenni
ps brain still reported missing!! |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 394
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 12:29 pm: | |
I just read on another thread that Susan was treated at a hospital on the 15th for her cut. The indication was that the cut might not have been fresh when she was treated. Chapman was killed on Saturday, the 8th and Ward's cut was treated one week later. |
Robert W. House
Detective Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 136
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 12:39 pm: | |
Jenni,
This is the October 1888 search, which excluded the sites of Eddowes, Nichols, and Stride. It essentially focused on Spitalfields and the vicinity of Brick Lane... all sites north of Whitechapel Road.
A somewhat unrelated question: when Anderson spoke of the search and Kosminski... :
"During my absence abroad the Police had made a house-to-house search for him" ... "And the conclusion we came to was that he and his people were low-class Jews" .... "And the result proved that our diagnosis was right on every point. "
If Anderson is speaking of Aaron Kosminski here, then this does not make sense as the search area would not have included Greenfield St or Sion Square.. sorry thats a bit off topic.
Back to Susan Ward. Monty, did you have any idea where this attack took place. I think you wrote "off Commercial Road". Anywhere more specific than that?
Rob |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 395
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 2:47 pm: | |
If Susan didnt give a description to the police out of fear, or if the police suppressed the description, its possible she may have described the man to her family. If so, this is the sort of thing that tends to be retold from one generation to the next. Is there a way we could find her descendants? |
Donald Souden
Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 335
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 3:14 pm: | |
I suppose it is a possibility that in light of the house-to-house inquiries in regard to Nichols that another such search was not deemed warranted -- if of course they had made assidious inquiries to begin with. Then, too, there may have been the thinking that the murderer would not befoul his near-nest. Then again . . . well as ever with JtR there are manifold other possibilities. And that is why, if you are so amused, that after cogitating a while on the case it is a palliative to sit down and fiddle with a few first-order algebraic equations in order to come away with a sense that there are sure and single answers to some problems.
Don. |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1452
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 7:56 am: | |
Rob,
No idea where. Just that it was a turn off Commercial St.
Monty
Fear. Fear attracts the fearful. The strong. The weak. The innocent. The corrupt. Fear. Fear is my ally. |
Robert W. House
Detective Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 139
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 9:01 am: | |
Monty,
Is that Commercial Street, or Commercial Road? You said road before... Commercial Street makes more sense, and would be more interesting IMO.
RH |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1399
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 9:18 am: | |
Guys,
'in a turning off Commercial Street' A-Z pp 486!
Jenni |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1453
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 10:20 am: | |
Rob,
I was incorrect, sorry.
I should have said Commercial St.
Yes, very interesting.
Monty
Fear. Fear attracts the fearful. The strong. The weak. The innocent. The corrupt. Fear. Fear is my ally. |
