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Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 711
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 7:04 am: |       |
Caz,
Never ever have I heard it said prefiss. I'm not saying it's incorrect, obviously, but when you've only heard it one way all your life it's hard to change it, especially when prefiss sounds extremely strange and if someone said it to me, I wouldn't have a clue what they were on about as I'm sure would anyone I said it to.
You have got to allow for regional accents as it's a bit unsympathic to just say that things are pronounced one way and one way only. My boyfriend, for example, is an English born Spaniard (his parents are both pure Spanish blood) and he can't pronounce the "th" sound at all. He also pronounces some things slightly differently as he was brought up with his parents speaking spanish and english but with a heavy accent.
I must admit though, it does sound funny when some people pronounce things different to how locals do. There is a suburb of Maidenhead called "Holyport" which is actually pronounced "HOLLY-PORT" but this American once asked me where "HOLY-PORT" was. I knew what he meant and directed him as best I could. I didn't correct him because I thought that he may think I was being rude. I told my friends about it, to which their reply was "ah, bless". But then I thought to myself that people, even from other parts of England probably wouldn't know the correct pronunciation.
Mike,
Clerk is actually pronounced as it looks, even though Berkshire is pronounced "BARK-SHEER".
Sarah
(Message edited by Sarah on February 23, 2004) |
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 457
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 7:51 am: | |
Sarah
You should try living in Dublin, where one of the main harbours where the ferries come in is called Dun Laoghaire. This is pronounced Done Leery (unless you are a highly pretentious Irish language Nazi in which case it is Doon Lair-ah). The number of times I have been stopped by a group of American tourists in a car asking if I know the way to "Done Low-hair", or just "Done Lug- uh, how the hell do you pronounce this anyway?"
I have to say I generally accept that different folks pronounce things different ways. My biggest bugbair is the laziness in spelling these days where people spell the word "their" as "there" or "our" as "are". Like nails on a blackboard it is! |
Paul Stephen
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 9:09 am: | |
Straying from the Maybrick thread for five minutes, I thought I’d stumbled into Ronnie Barker’s Pismronunciation sketch!
Quirky pronunciation is one of the glories of the spoken English language, and long may it continue. (If only to give Johnny foreigner an occasional chuckle!)
Seriously though folks ,regional place names are one thing, but standard English words are just that, and their proper pronunciation is in all decent dictionaries. There’s nothing posh about it. I’m not remotely posh, but Preface is Prefiss, and Clerk is Clark.
Regards
Paul 
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Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 714
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 10:15 am: | |
Alan,
"Done Leery"?? I must admit it doesn't look like it would be pronounced like that. When you said how it was pronounced I just thought it would be funny if it was pronounced "Done Leering".
Paul,
I didn't say it was posh to do it or that we don't mess up the language on purpose or anything but if that's all you've heard all your life it is strange to change it. Also, clerk is definitely pronounced as it looks, I checked in the Cambridge Dictionary Online.
Are you British or American though? There are American dictionaries where they pronounce some words differently to us Brits.
Sarah |
Ally
Inspector
Username: Ally
Post Number: 297
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 10:34 am: | |
Hi Sarah,
You do know that there are other people posting on this thread besides you, right?  I said in America the acceptable word is adver-tize-ment and only people who want to sound posh say adver-tiss-ment. "Tize" is even listed first in the dictionary as far as pro-noun-ciation guides go, so that is apparently the correct way to say it, Paul. And although I agree that preh-fiss is the correct and only way to say preface, I still maintain that it is an error that stems from learning to read phonetically that causes the confusion. Especially for people who learn to read earlier and at more sophisticated levels than their peers, they may have sight word recognition of vocabulary that they do not hear in common usage and will rely on phonological decoding to determine what the word sounds like. |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 716
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 10:56 am: | |
Ally,
It looks like advertisement is one of those words that Brits and American's pronounce differently. In the Cambridge Dictionary it is definitely pronounced "ADVER-TISS-MENT" in Britain though. I occasionally accidently say words in an American way which I keep getting told off about, like schedule as "Skeduoole" and even on the odd occasion I say advertisement as "Adver-tize-ment".
Sarah |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 403
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 12:47 pm: | |
As to "advertisement" I think it's close to 50-50 in American on pronunciation. I tend to say "ad-VER-tiss-ment" (and I do NOT have a posh manner of speaking), but I hear "AD-ver-tize-ment" just as often.
Incidentally, I do a lot of public speaking so I have tended to lose any accents that I might have had (I have also moved around a lot, which has helped to dilute any accents). But when I get back to Chicago, I find myself pronouncing things the "Chicago way." I also had one person (a native Malta) ask me if I was originally from London. He said I tended to pronounce certain words the English way. I must have let a "went missing" slip through!
Near the town where I used to live in Missouri there is a little town called Bois D'Arc. How do you think the locals pronounced it? "Bo-dark." It took me quite a while after seeing this name on the map to realize that's the town being referred to when I heard "Bodark." Here in St. Louis, despite all its French heritage, many French place names are mispronounced -- beginning with St. Louis itself (we pronounce it Saint Lewis, not Saint Loouie). But you may be surprised to hear that the German influence in St. Louis is more important from the standpoint of economic development (some guy by the name of Busch started a brewery here way back when...). We do tend to pronounce our German place names correctly, or nearly so.
For example: Carondolet Road is pronounced "Kar-on-do-lett" here and Chouteau is "SHOW-tow." But Spoede Road is pronounced "Spaydee" (pretty close to the German pronunciation).
Andy S. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 764
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 1:28 pm: | |
Hi Sarah,
Clerk is certainly not pronounced as it looks where I come from! It’s Clark – just as Berkshire is Barkshire. A clerk is what people from Newcastle call a cloak – as in Clerk & Dagger. And I’ll get me clerk.
Ally,
In the UK, anyone who says adver-ties-ment is considered – by me at least - to be as common as someone who says “I’m off to the toilet/bathroom for a quick slash while the commercials are on”, instead of “I'm going to the lavatory dahling - call me as soon as the adverts have finished and I’ll wipe the dew from my lily”.
See? Some of us are as posh as muck - and love taking the yur-ine. 
Love,
Caz
|
Ally
Inspector
Username: Ally
Post Number: 298
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 2:50 pm: | |
"Wipe the dew from my lily" ?? I think that still falls under the category of TMI. 
I just say, "I'll be right back".
Impeccably proper,
Ally |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2151
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 3:10 pm: | |
A few years ago when I was on jury service, one of the jurors wanted a break in the trial because he needed to go to the toilet. So he gave the usher a note to pass to the judge. On it were just two words : "Wee wee."
The judge said it was the shortest note he'd ever been handed.
Robert |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 723
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 4:23 am: | |
Caz,
See this is what I mean about regional accents because the dictionary says that clerk is pronounced as it looks and cloak is definitely pronounced "CLO-KE", rhyming with "coke".
If I was in Newcastle and heard the word "clerk" I would instantly think of something else than the locals then.
Sarah |
Dan Norder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 7:44 pm: | |
Andrew wrote:
"As to "advertisement" I think it's close to 50-50 in American on pronunciation."
Not in my experience from listening to local Wisconsinites, TV and movie personalities, or my friends in a wide variety locations in the South and East. More like 99% adverTIZEment with the occasional Brit on CNN or a commercial doing it their way. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 767
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 11:33 am: | |
Hi Sarah,
My Chambers has clerk as klark, with the US version being klurk.
My Viz would have Sid the Sexist saying “fancy a quick brush-up and seeing-to in the klurkroom pet?”
Hi Ally,
How boring to be impeccably proper at home with one’s man.
Mine could probably never have TMI, but maybe male brits are funny that way – or at least all the ones I have known and loved.
Love,
Caz
|
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 732
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 11:52 am: | |
Caz,
Sorry for being dumb here but "Viz"??
I feel a bit dumb but I can admit when I'm wrong. I looked up "clerk" and I had been reading the American pronunciation instead of the British. Opps.
Cloak is still correct though. I've never heard cloak pronounced as "klurk". It sounds awfully northern.
Sarah |
Mark Andrew Pardoe
Inspector
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 211
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 2:24 pm: | |
Whatho Sarah,
When we, in Britain, are dumb; we cannot talk.
To Angloise your term you could be daft, silly or, in this case: dim.
Viz is a comic for adults; it can be rather rude in places. I prefer Private Eye.
Cheers, Mark (in Hitchin, Hertfordshire pronounced Hartfordshire) |
Kris Law
Inspector
Username: Kris
Post Number: 182
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 2:43 pm: | |
Dumb means the same thing in North America, Professor.
It has fallen out of more common usage in these politically correct days we live in, but everybody still knows what it means.
And, I may be mistaken, but isn't Sarah herself from Britain?
-K
p.s. - I think Viz is very funny, if more-than-slightly- vulgar. Sarah, it's a dirty version of the Beano sorta.
|
Kris Law
Inspector
Username: Kris
Post Number: 183
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 2:45 pm: | |
Everyone,
Just like to take this chance to say how happy I am that we finally got off the pre-face/prefiss subject.
It was beginning to give me worms.
-K |
jane
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 4:38 pm: | |
Hello; just had to join in & add a couple more interesting pronunciation anecdotes: I'm Canadian (Northwest Ontario), as is my father, but my mother is English. When my father was in England, the locals were puzzled when he pronounced "body" and "bawdy" the same way ("boddy"). Similarly, we try to dissuade my mother from saying "pawn shop", since to our Canadian ears it sounds an awful lot like "porn shop"...(we would pronounce "pawn" as "ponn"). All a question of whether or not to voice the letter R I suppose.
Also, Canadians tend to have softer T's, which sometimes end up sounding like D's. eg. attic = addick, Scotty = Scoddy, etc.
As a final note, my mother tells me that Canadians (at least around where I live) sound like a cross between American & Irish. How true this is, I couldn't really say.
The more bizarre American pronunciations, to my ear, are "far-in" instead of "fore-in" for "foreign", and "roof" with the "oo" from "wood" rather than from "food"... |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 736
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 4:53 am: | |
Yes, Kris I am from Britain.
Mark, dumb can also mean silly, stupid, etc. even in Britain so I really don't need anyone to anglisise my words thank you.
Jane,
We pronounce "pawn shop" as "porn shop", basically like "prawn" without the "r" as "prawn" is pronounced like "porn" with an "r", i.e. "pr-orn". The "awn" is also in the word "awning" and "yawning" and the "awn" is also pronounced as "orn" in "porn".
Hope that makes sense.
Sarah |
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 777
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 8:35 am: | |
Hi Sarah,
‘It sounds awfully northern.’
You catch on quick. I did say ‘clerk’ is how someone from Newcastle would say ‘cloak’.
I meant the quintessentially northern Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, not the other Newcastle (Under-Lyme?) in the Midlands.
And I can’t believe you had to use a dictionary to learn how to pronounce clerk the standard English way. Don’t they have clerks where you post – I mean work?
Please don’t tell me you pronounce Derby ‘Derby’, and not ‘Darby’?
Hi Kris,
Hope your worms won’t return anytime soon.
I don’t think Viz is as funny as it used to be. You don’t see enough of some of the good old characters and too many crap ones like Tasha, Ratboy and Eight Ace. I do like Roger’s Profanisaurus though, and Terry F****witt. And my daughter found a great photo in the local paper which she sent off and it ended up in the Viz ‘Up the Arse Corner’ calendar.
Oh, and another thing that’s like nails on a blackboard for me is ‘whether’ spelled ‘weather’ (a perfectly dreadful spell of whether), and ‘probably’ pronounced ‘probbly’. Very wobbly.
Love,
Caz
(Message edited by Caz on February 25, 2004) |
Kris Law
Inspector
Username: Kris
Post Number: 187
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 10:31 am: | |
Everybody,
I have a question that's been bugging me for some time now: What does "Watho" mean? I see people using it as a greeting all over the threads but have never heard anyone say it in actual life.
Mark Andrew uses it a few messages above in his stunning description of what "dumb" means.
Can anybody help me out?
-K |
Monty
Chief Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 789
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 11:47 am: | |
Kris,
Whatho is a lower class version of the upper class whatto.
I guess the US version would be 'wassup'.
Its a hello......used many, many years ago when the world was in black and white and everyone walked really fast while wearing straw boaters !
Enters Pardoe...
Monty
 |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 746
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 12:26 pm: | |
Caz,
Ok, ok. No need to get tetchy.
Of course I pronounce "derby" as "darby".
No we have no clerks where I work. We don't use that word to describe people in offices down here. What would you describe a clerk as?
Sarah |
Mark Andrew Pardoe
Inspector
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 212
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 6:12 pm: | |
Whatho all,
(It's upper class as I pronounce to H and Monty knows I still live in a world of black and white stripes)
Yes Sarah, some people in Britain do use dumb to mean daft but it is quite rare. I think it's caused by the American influence. After all, some people mispronounce schedule and call lifts elevators (when an elevator is actually a machine like a conveyor belt used for lifting bales of hay to the top of the stack).
And Caz, everyone knows Derby is pronounced Bowler  .
Cheers, Mark |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 749
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 5:01 am: | |
Mark,
I hear the word "dumb" as in "stupid" a lot and I never hear "dim" at all.
I also never say or hear "whatho". Interesting, it certainly makes me think of the posh upper classes.
Sarah |
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