| Author |
Message |
    
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1119
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 5:50 pm: | 
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Caroline Morris
Find yourself another mug to bully.
Ho hum. Well, you've done sarcasm, condescension, long-winded diversionary tactics and name-calling ("fraud", "cheat" etc) already on this thread, so I suppose we are about due for a dose of "St Caroline the Martyr".
But seriously, this won't quite do as an excuse for clamming up about who's behind the "ongoing research". After all, you're the one who keeps on raising the subject.
And this does have a serious side to it. We've just had this rather silly discussion about whether AFI was right about there being chloroacetamide in the ink, over a decade ago.
The reason it's silly is that in the report you yourself have quoted, Roberts said exactly how the suggestion that chloroacetamide was present could be confirmed.
And of course science has moved on since then. It takes only a few minutes with Google to see that the chemical analysis of ink is an absolutely standard procedure in forensic science. It can even be done by non-destructive methods. The question could be resolved quite easily, if people really wanted to resolve it.
In the past, expense has often been given as an excuse for not having further scientific tests carried out on the diary. But with all this "time, money and effort" being poured into this "ongoing investigation", expense seems not to be so much of a problem.
So why not analyse the ink? I can think of one possible reason, but it wouldn't be a creditable one for those organising this investigation. However, perhaps Caroline Morris can give us a better answer.
Chris Phillips
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2623
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 6:14 am: |
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Of course maybe Caroline doesn't actually know anything about this 'ongoing investigation' more than what she has said?
"be just and fear not"
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Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1125
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 8:03 am: |
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Jenni
It's certainly a strange business, this "ongoing investigation" - apparently an investigation into the whereabouts of the Diary before 1994, which seems rather a strange thing to focus on.
Perhaps Caroline Morris doesn't know as much about it as she makes on, but I'd be surprised if she didn't at least know who was behind it. But who knows?
Chris Phillips
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2625
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 2:28 pm: |
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For something that gets mentioned so often on these threads it just appears to be secretive in nature. Either way, it certainly makes you wondered just what it is all about and what it is investigating.
I personally can think of a few things i would like to investigate. But hey!
Incidentially, no Caz, I was not calling you a liar.
If you want me to SEE your question how about not editing your post AFTER I have replied to it!
And yes i had noticed I edited this but at least you hadnt already replied.
Jenni
(Message edited by jdpegg on July 03, 2005)
"be just and fear not"
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2626
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 2:39 pm: |
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Incidentally,
i do believe James Maybrick got one thing right, time does reveal all. And yes - i look forward very much to that day.
(Message edited by jdpegg on July 03, 2005)
"be just and fear not"
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2627
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 2:55 pm: |
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Furthermore,
I never mentioned Keith, so how could I be calling him a liar? I would never call Keith a liar, he never even reads these boards as far as i am aware. It would just be wrong to.
Anyway, he isn't one!!!
(Message edited by jdpegg on July 03, 2005)
"be just and fear not"
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Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1127
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 4:50 pm: |
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Jenni
I think what we're seeing here is simply Diversionary Tactic Number 36 in the Caroline Morris Handbook of Bulletin Board Debating Tactics, which is entitled "How Dare You?".
This states that if all other means of answering an awkward question fail, you take offence, pretend to be very hard done by, and stomp off in a huff.
It's certainly a far cry from Caroline Morris's feisty rejoinder to Ally, "I just said that I don't mind you trying to 'bash me' in the least. You just keep bashing away for all you are worth." That was a response to Ally's (perfectly justified) reference to Caroline's "completely unethical, sleazy, scheming behavior".
So I don't think it's that she really feels all that much more insulted than usual. I think it's just that she doesn't want to answer the question.
I think the only remedy is just to keep asking the awkward questions:
Who's behind the "ongoing investigation"? Who's putting up the dosh? What are they hoping to get out of it?
Chris Phillips
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2629
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 5:00 am: |
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maybe Caroline doesn't know who is behind the "ongoing investigation" and what it's all about?
Else why wouldn't she answer your question?
(Message edited by jdpegg on July 04, 2005)
"By the power of Greyskull - I have the power!"
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1917
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 6:07 am: |
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Hi Jenni,
Chris posted this on June 28:
Now, in case I wasn't clear enough last time - arguing with compulsive liars is one of the more pointless things in life, in my opinion. The discussion's closed as far as I'm concerned.
So I don't know why he keeps trying to open another one. Perhaps he missed me over the weekend.
If you want me to SEE your question how about not editing your post AFTER I have replied to it!
How about not posting until the editing time is up for the previous poster? You were posting while I was editing mine. You hardly gave yourself a chance to absorb what had gone before. No wonder you miss so much!
Originally, you asked me:
...so what would you suggest the way forward was Caz, on all fronts?
And I mentioned the ongoing investigation, to remind you that there are people already going forward, in a variety of different ways. It was what you wanted to hear, or so I thought - that the investigation had not been abandoned as unresolvable.
For someone who believes everything was resolved back in 1994 with AFI's result, Chris is making an awful din, whining for more news, while thinking up even more horrible things to say about the very person he is asking to dish the dirt. If I don't give him a sausage, what will he do? Call me a blue meanie? Oooh, I'm shaking in me flip-flops. 
Once again, it was Keith Skinner who originally suggested I advise the boards that the investigation was continuing, and new tests were recently performed as a direct result of your own efforts. And yet you wrote:
Unless of course the investigation doesn't really exist?
The investigation is taking many forms, and many people have become involved, including you.
Enjoy being a part of it all, or be a misery guts like Chris. It's not going away anytime soon.
Love,
Caz
X |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1128
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 6:32 am: |
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All very interesting, but - who's actually behind this investigation? Where's the money coming from? What are they hoping to get out of it?
Oh, and let's not forget - why not analyse the ink?
Chris Phillips
(Message edited by cgp100 on July 04, 2005) |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2630
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 7:44 am: |
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Caroline,
ok, ok, whatever you say.
i think Chris raises some very interesting questions. Are you going to answer them. or is the fact you don't very much like Chris stopping you?
Jenni
"By the power of Greyskull - I have the power!"
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2632
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 7:57 am: |
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ps,
i think I know what I have and have not been involved in some how.
"By the power of Greyskull - I have the power!"
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2635
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 11:36 am: |
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pps,
you moan about people picking on you and yet you call me
'No wonder you miss so much! '
just lets try be civil shall we?
"By the power of Greyskull - I have the power!"
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1919
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 2:02 pm: |
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Hi Jenni,
Yes, that would make a nice change.
I will try not to throw back what gets chucked at me, if others will try harder not to throw it in the first place.
I'm sorry I didn't take kindly to your suggestion that the investigation (which I mentioned when you asked about the way forward) might not even exist - especially as you have played (and are still playing?) an active role in it.
It appeared as if you were jumping on Charm School Chris's "she's a liar" bandwagon. And oddly enough I didn't appreciate it one bit.
Love,
Caz
X |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1129
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 2:59 pm: |
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Caroline Morris
Hmmm. Funny you chose to give us your thoughts on the subject of civility (rather like King Herod giving a seminar on child care!) rather than answer those awkward questions.
Not a big surprise, though...
Chris Phillips
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1921
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 4:50 am: |
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Hi Chris,
No awkward questions, I'm afraid. It's just that you'll have to curb your impatience and wait for the answers; they are not mine to give - yet.
Think of it this way:
You think you know that the diary is a modern hoax, right?
So the ongoing investigation, as far as you are concerned, can only be a good thing, because whatever comes to light can only help confirm your beliefs, right?
Now keep thinking 'modern hoax', and consider carefully just what the investigation is likely to reveal, if you are right. (Hint: if you are right, it could flush out the forgers. Wow.)
Now tell me why you think you are entitled to know anything before the investigation is ready to reveal all to everyone. Can't you see that, if you are right, there are sensitive issues here, that no one's going to risk going pear-shaped just to satisfy the curiosity of one or two posters on the internet.
I will ask Keith if there is anything I can tell you, but don't hold your breath.
Slowly slowly catchee monkey.
Love,
Caz
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2638
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 5:39 am: |
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Well great, i hope the investigation goes well. Since we don't really want to talk about it/or don't know anything about it, lets not mention it again.
Good.
"By the power of Greyskull - I have the power!"
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1923
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 6:24 am: |
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Hi Jenni,
Well you did ask for my suggestions for the way forward, and I told you what I could - that we are going forward.
That's good, isn't it?
Love,
Caz
X |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2639
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 7:40 am: |
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It is.
i said good didn't i?
"By the power of Greyskull - I have the power!"
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Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1131
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 4:27 pm: |
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Caroline Morris
Can't you see that, if you are right, there are sensitive issues here, that no one's going to risk going pear-shaped just to satisfy the curiosity of one or two posters on the internet.
Can you explain why the identity of the person who is funding this work should be in the least sensitive?
I take it the sensitivity is of a purely commercial nature...
And from what you say, is it safe to assume this mysterious person has for some reason opted not to take the direct route of settling the question by having the ink chemically analysed?
Chris Phillips
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1925
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 5:41 am: |
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Hi Chris,
You have money on the brain, and it's tainting your judgement. The sensitivity has nothing to do with any commercial concerns. You believe the diary is a modern hoax; if you are right, it means that any in-depth investigation in Liverpool is likely to end up affecting people still living.
Think of the implications for the Johnson family, for instance, or Anne Graham, if your diary forgers are being flushed out as we speak.
I have no problem with what Robert Smith has said in public - that he would sign up any flushed-out hoaxer(s) immediately for a book deal. I would be happy to be a part of that, if asked. The story would be well worth telling, just to put the whole thing to bed at last, after upsetting so many people over so many years, in so many ways.
Anyway, I have talked with Keith (who tells me he has been keeping up with this thread), and we quickly decided that Chris Phillips's need to know (what is or is not being funded, by whom and why), is simply not on our list of priorities right now.
As for further chemical analysis, Robert Smith is more than happy to release the diary if anyone can come up with a test that may be able to tell us once and for all whether or not the ink is of modern manufacture.
It is never going to be safe for you to assume anything about the diary, the watch, or about the people who have been investigating their origins. Why not wait until the fruit of other people's labours has ripened, and can be safely laid at your door?
Love,
Caz
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2649
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 6:00 am: |
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Hey Caroline,
people still living? You mean you think the hoaxers are still alive?
Jenni
"By the power of Greyskull - I have the power!"
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Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1138
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 6:02 am: |
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Caroline Morris
Actually, the whole thing suddenly seems completely unimportant.
Chris Phillips
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1931
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 12:25 pm: |
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Hi Jenni,
It's what others think.
For the first time I agree with Chris. Right now, today, all I can think of is how grateful I am that my daughter is safe indoors.
Others are not so fortunate.
See you tomorrow.
Love,
Caz
X |
Nicholas Smith
Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 27
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 8:15 pm: |
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G'day all,
I'm sorry to say it but once again these discussions seem to have turned into a vendetta against a person who has expressed an opinion based on information which has come to her via a source not available to ourselves.
This does not discount this information to be correct or incorrect. It just means that at times one cannot divulge the point from where this information comes from.
Think of yourselves under oath to either a jury or a best friend. That should put things in perspective.
Sincerely
Jules |
Nicholas Smith
Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 28
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 4:45 am: |
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And yeah, god rest all those souls who lost their lives in the bombings - not just here but all round the world.
Don't forget to hug the ones you love.
Jules |
Neil K. MacMillan
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 142
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 4:32 pm: |
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Haven't been on for awhile but I hope all of you in Britain and along the Gulf coast are well. Did I step into a mess here about the diary or has it been cleared up? Neil |
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