| Author |
Message |
    
David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 9:48 am: |       |
I just wondered whether anyone has ever noticed any other words on the wall of Mary Kelly's room.
I have been checking the photograph of Mary Kelly, in the JTR A-Z and when looking through a magnifying glass I believe I can make out a number of words situated just above the infamous "F M". The first looks like YOU, above this looks like either NEVER or CLEVER, and above this what could be the word CATCH.
So could it be that the killer has left a message for the police regarding being too clever to be caught ?
In support of the above, I have recently read of an American newspaper report of 13/11/1888 suggesting that further handwriting on the wall existed.
Any thoughts ?} |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1051
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 3:34 pm: | |
Hi David,
I belong to those who actually never have believed that there were any words or letters on the wall, since the supposed "F M" are rather unclear and just as well could have been ordinary marks from blood or dirt. Under circumstances like these it is quite easy to find "signs" everywhere and read things into a picture that aren't there.
However, now when you say, that you have found additional letters (forming specific words) -- and you refer to a newspaper source that mentions the handwriting, I must admit it interests me. Of course, it could just be a rumour that would have reached America; I would have considered it more credible if it was a London newspaper, but anyway... and there really is no reason to totally disregard the fact that the murderer could have left a message, and if he did, the message would be an interesting and important clue. However, I haven't been able to read anything myself on the wall, and I still can't. If the presumed "F M" really are letters, then I believe the handwriting is extremely terrible. If he wanted to leave a message, why not make it more easy to read (and I naturally don't mean that she should indulge himself in artistic calligraphy), since quite many people -- including the police -- obviously missed it?
Do you by any chance possess any technical possibilities to draw up the parts where you read the words and reproduce them?
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 617
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 5:10 am: | |
Hi.
Judging by the recent sketch, of kellys room, if an accurate one, it would mean, that the washing stand, was positioned in the spot where the writing was supposed to have been, and therefore the bed was not right up against the partition, as always been thought.
I Should have imagined , whoever made that sketch, could observe, what he was drawing...
Richard.
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David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 6:25 pm: | |
Hi Glenn
Thanks for your comments. The photograph in question appears in many JTR books of which I own almost thirty, but there only two books from my collection where the writing is visible -"THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER" Published in 1995 and "THE JACK THE RIPPER A-Z" Published in 1994. The reason that the writing is more visible is that in these books the photograph is very clear, not grainy and of photograph quality as opposed to other books where it is of copy quality, dark and grainy. The photograph which I have studied in depth is in the "A-Z".
Unfortunately I dont possess the technology to reproduce what I see but I will explain in more detail what & where I see the words.
In the centre of the photo there is a partially exposed square panel on the partition/wall. The first word that I could make out runs along the top of this panel - the word looks to me like "NEVER" , halfway between this word and Mary Kelly's body I can see the word "YOU". On closer examination directly above the word NEVER I can make out the letters C A and H possibly making the word CATCH. - YOU NEVER CATCH
The newspaper article I mentioned was from the New York World. It basically says that as the police didn't seize the opportunaty to take a photo of the Goulston Street Graffito they made sure that photographic evidence was taken of 13 Millers Court. This gave rise to a report that there was more writing on the wall, a number of people entered the room and said that they didn't see any writing. They may have been too excited to notice such details.
I came across the above article in a new book by Shirley Harrison "JTR THE AMERICAN CONNECTION"
where it is briefly mentioned.
Perhaps the handwriting on the wall is so bad because of the varying emotions suffered by the author - adrenalin, anxiety, hatred, madness or possibly he just couldn't write very well.
Who knows!!
Hope to speak to you again.
David
|
Jason Scott Mullins
Detective Sergeant
Username: Crix0r
Post Number: 76
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 11:45 am: | |
Hello David -
I've looked, twice. Perhaps you could take the large blown up picture (found here: http://casebook.org/images/kelly_trad_HUGE.jpg) and outline it for us?
Kinda a connect the dots?
crix0r |
David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 9:19 am: | |
Hi Glenn & Richard.
Thanks for your comments.The photograph in question appears in many Ripper books of which I own about thirty, but the writing is only visible to me in two of these books - 'The Diary of JTR' and 'The JTR A-Z'. I believe that the writing is more visible because in these books the photograph is of photograph quality, very clear and not grainy or too dark.
Unfortunately I do not possess the technology to reproduce what I see, however I will explain what & where I see it.
In the centre of the photo a partially exposed panel can be seen on the partition/wall. Running along the top of this panel I believe is the word 'NEVER',just below this word and halfway between the top of the panel and Mary Kelly's body I can see the word 'YOU', directly above the word 'NEVER' I can make out the letters 'C,A & H' possibly making the word 'CATCH'.
YOU NEVER CATCH
The newspaper report I mentioned was from the 'New York World' and this was basically saying that as the Police didn't seize the opportunity to photograph the Goulston Street Graffitto they made sure that they took photographic evidence of inside 13 Millers Court.
This gave rise to a report that there was more handwriting in the room. A number of people entered the room and said that they saw nothing but this may have been because they were too excited to notice.
The reason the handwriting may have been so bad is due to the varying emotions experienced by its author - adrenaline, anxiety, fear, madness or possibly he just couldn't write very well, or it may be due the angle with which he was writing from.
With regard to the sketch made of the room - In the sketch the bed is positioned directly next to the door which wasn't the case as there was a table between the bed & the door. Also in the sketch this table is nowhere to be seen. Every overhead map of No.13 that I have seen shows the bed clearly placed against the wall & I believe the photograph proves this.
Regards
David
|
David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 2:50 pm: | |
Hi all
I admit that the writing can not be seen on the huge picture but I believe this is because of the enlargement process. However on the smaller photo on the link I can make out the word 'NEVER'.
As I said before the writing is clear to me in two books where the photo is presented in Black & White.
I have saved the picture on the link and with the aid of PhotoSuite I have over written the words that I see. I do not know how to download the amended image onto this site. I could however email the Image to you or could someone tell me how to download it.
Let me know either way.
Of course this is all just my opinion and I'm sure alot of people disagree, but we are all entitled to our own views & opinions. I am glad that I'm able to share mine with you guys.
Regards
David
|
AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 771
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 4:59 pm: | |
David
I’m not much on the technical side but if you do have an image you want to study in depth, try scanning it and then put it into ‘paint box’ or ‘art box’ - different systems vary in title - which in itself enormously enlarges the image, then isolate the relevant part of the image, click on it and start reducing it bit by bit to the pixel stage. At varying levels of the pixel reduction process it will show you whether there is a smudge, blot or a letter… and this even with a poor image. If you have a good black and white image it should be no problem. You will be able to tell for sure what you have found. At pixel stage you are able to negative the image and this often helps.
I have done this with documents from ancient Egypt - over 5000 years old - and it is quite amazing what pops out.
As I said on another thread, I’m a sceptic but good luck.
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Kevin Braun
Detective Sergeant
Username: Kbraun
Post Number: 86
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 5:25 pm: | |
Welcome back Arfa.
"I have saved the picture on the link and with the aid of PhotoSuite I have over written the words that I see. I do not know how to download the amended image onto this site. I could however email the Image to you or could someone tell me how to download it".
Well you have mastered PhotoSuite, loading the image onto this site should not be a bridge too far.
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1053
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 9:14 pm: | |
Hi David,
Thanks for your reply.
What you say is indeed intriguing, and although I (like AP) is a sceptic -- I still claim that it is quite easy to "read" things into blood splatter and shadows (or dirt on the picture), but I naturally can't disregard what you say. If those words you refer to really are there, then it would of course be a real blast.
Naturally you refer to the only two books on the subject that I don't have, but I take your word for it if you say that those reproductions are better than those that can be found elsewhere or on this website.
If you can't manage to add your picture into this thread, then try to e-mail a copy to me; I work with graphical design -- I have no idea what PhotoSuite is; I mainly work in Photoshop, but if you mail it to me, be sure to save it as a TIFF or jpg file first.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 852
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 4:14 pm: | |
David
Below is the paragraph I think you're referring to. This version is from the Atlanta Constitution of 12 November 1888
All the best
Chris
 |
jamie
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 6:59 am: | |
hi i looked at the photo very carefully and im not being disrespectful but i can not see any writng at all may be you show a picture where you can see it}}}} |
Kayla Romanczuk
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 9:31 pm: | |
Hi, I would like to know exactly where in the Mary Kelly picture the alleged "F M" is. I cannot seem to make out any "F M" in the picture. Perhaps I am not looking in the right spot? Can anyone tell me or show me where in the picture the "F M" and/or the "You Never Catch" is located? Thanks. -Kayla Romanczuk} |
BJMarkland
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 11:00 am: | |
David Bullock wrote on 1/24 @ 6:25,
"Unfortunately I dont possess the technology to reproduce what I see but I will explain in more detail what & where I see the words."
Yet, he now has Photoshop and knows how to use it?
Likely I am wrong, but better Arfa wrong than totally blind to a set-up.
Best of wishes,
Billy
P. S. BTW, a belated Happy New Year to everyone.  |
Luxy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 1:31 pm: | |
Hi
Can anyone tell me the letter M and the number 58 (?) on the wall below the bar of the bed just over poor Mary's head is an optical illusion or maybe it might have been graved in the wall with a knife. |
David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 4:10 pm: | |
Hi Everyone
This is the casebook photo with the words that I think I can see overwritten 
I will also post a Black & White Photo in which I believe the letters are more clear.
David |
David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 4:24 pm: | |
Hi Guys
This is the casebook photo with the words overwritten
I will post a Black & White photo in which I think the letters are clearer.
David |
David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 3:49 pm: | |
Hello everyone
This is the casebook photo with the words that I think I see overwritten
I have also included a Black & White photo in which I believe the letters are more visible
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1959
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 7:09 pm: | |
Looks like it's all a load of Bullocks.
This is the third time, isn't it? Getting to be a bit of a yawn now, Arfa. Can't you up your game a bit?
Robert |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1064
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 7:33 pm: | |
Robert,
Don't tell me it's "you-know-who" again? If it's him I must admit he's sly, or maybe I am just getting old (don't answer that)!
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Leanne Perry
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 1097
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 9:36 pm: | |
G'day,
Below is what I see everytime I look at that picture. I am not ready to argue that her killer wrote it though. It may just be a spooky coincidence. LEANNE
LEANNE |
David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 4:53 pm: | |
Hi everyone
Sorry about the failed attempts
This time I think I have cracked it
This is the photograph with the overwritten words 
This is the original photograph 
Regards
David |
David Bullock
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 1:15 am: | |
Hi Guys
Sorry about the failed attempts
This time hopefully it has worked.
This is the photograph with the writing overwritten 
This is the original 
Take a look
Regards
David |
Christian Jaud
Detective Sergeant
Username: Chrisjd
Post Number: 75
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 12:20 pm: | |
????
David, you either have fantastic eyes or fantastic imagination.
Christian
Since when do we have that 25 word thing???
21 22 23 24 25 |
Jeff Hamm
Inspector
Username: Jeffhamm
Post Number: 210
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 2:30 pm: | |
If you set your TV to a blank signal you get random "snow" on the screen. If you stare at that "snow" long enough, you will see shapes and lines and other patterns forming in the chaos. See, the mind doesn't like chaotic sensory input and tries to form sensible perceptions. Staring at the random blurs and swishes on the walls of these photos will eventually allow you to see things that "make sense". But seeing it doesn't mean it's "really there": just like driving along and seeing water on a hot road on a sunny day that suddenly vanishes, it's an illusion.
- Jeff |
