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Frank van Oploo
Detective Sergeant
Username: Franko
Post Number: 132
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 12:02 pm: |       |
Hi Monty,
I thought of yet another thing regarding the mugging theory, and I promise I'll try to make it the last one  . If George had been planning to mug Mary's punter, then wouldn't it have been smarter for George not to have described Mary's companion as being so obviously wealthy?
By the way, I agree with you that GH must have felt he had to make his statement because of Lewis' testimony. What strikes me when I read his statement is that he seemed to have put little effort in the explanation for his presence and a lot in the description of the man. The explanation comes across as a 'by-the-way'-thing and is quite weak, considering he was prepared to defy almost another hour of cold and wet weather after the trip from Romford, which must have taken him already 2 hours at the very least.
All the best,
Frank |
Frank van Oploo
Detective Sergeant
Username: Franko
Post Number: 133
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 12:09 pm: | |
Hi Christian,
The picture you refer to is indeed the same as the one in Andy & Sue's book.
All the best,
Frank |
Monty
Chief Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 597
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 12:13 pm: | |
Frank,
True, his statement doesnt explain fully his reasons for being there.
Aye, it would have been a smarter move. I guess he was worried about who else saw Mary with this chap, worried that someone else had given a statement on this couple. They describe a rich man and George poor then he would have looked supcious.
But, like Ive mentioned many times before, this is just me a-supposin' !!!!
Monty
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Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 830
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 12:18 pm: | |
I don't know if will help to settle anything on the Miller's Court picture but Im posting below a super enlarged plan of Miller's Court from the 1894 map. This clearly shows four buildings on the left and three on the right.At the end of the court there is another building facing onto the north side with a yard behind. Logically this building must have faced onto Miller's Court as the yard beyond is at the back of a building which faces onto Brushfield Street and I cannot see how this building at the end of the court could have been accesed other than via the court itself
Hope this helps
Chris
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Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 831
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 12:38 pm: | |
If my surmise in the previous post (i.e. that the building at the end of Miller's Court was accessed via the court) and including No 13 (which was actually the back of 26 Dorset Street) that would mean there were 9 premises in Miller's court accoring to the plan above.
The 1891 census for Miller's Court does indeed list nine dwellings in the court but the numbering is erratic with some numbers unaccounted for. the residents for 1891 were as follows:
Miller’s Court 1891
No 2
Solomon Shremeldy (Head) aged 25 born London City Costermonger
Emily Weiss (Boarder) aged 24 born Finsbury Charwoman
Lilian Reardon (Head) aged 37 born St John’s Westminster
Charles J Reardon (Son) aged 10 born Pimlico
Patrick Coulan (Head) aged 39 born Ireland Shoemaker
Alice (Wife) aged 29 born Chelsea
Bernard (Son) aged 8 born Blackfriars
Alfred (Son) aged 4 born Blackfriars
Michael (Son) aged 1 week born Shoreditch
No 3
Joseph Wadham (Head) aged 61 born Bethnal Green Dock Labourer
Mary A (Wife) aged 58 born Bethnal Green
John (Son) aged 16 born Bethnal Green
No 5
John Payne (Head) aged 42 born Bishopsgate Porter
Jane E (Wife) aged 38 born Shoreditch
John (Son) aged 4 born Shoreditch
George Soulbery aged 36 born Islington Gas Stoker
Elibeth (sic) (Wife) aged 31 born Aberdeen
George (Son) aged 14 born Haggerston
Frederick (Son) aged 8 born Kingsland
Henry Hooker (Head) aged 42 born Shoreditch Stick Dresser
Clara E (Wife) aged 35 born Lambeth Match Box Maker
William F (Son) aged 16 born Shoreditch Van Boy
Eliza Wilson (Visitor) aged 40 born Lambeth Fancy Trimmer
No 6
Thomas North (Head) aged 34 born Pimlico Brick Maker
Sarah (Wife) aged 26 born Penge Charwoman
Katherine Durand (Visitor) aged 29 born Westminster Charwoman
No 7
Elizabeth Norman (Head) aged 34 born London Needlewoman
Matilda Merriton (Head) aged 46 born St George’s East
No 8
Mary A Jeffrey (Head) aged 53 born Bandon, Cork Charwoman
Edward (Son) aged 23 born Whitechapel Carman
No 11
Mary A Griffin (Head) aged 19 born Stepney Rope Maker’s Assistant
No 12
William Harrison aged 65 born Lambeth Wire Worker
Mary A (Wife) aged 65 born Cornwall
Edward Childs (Head) aged 35 born Islington Hawker
Jane (Wife) aged 32 born Islington
No 13
Thomas Kelly (Head) aged 35 born Spitalfields Waterside Labourer
Ann (Wife) aged 34 born Ireland
Elizabeth Harper (Head) aged 39 born Wapping Needlewoman
James (Brother) aged 42 born Finsbury Firewood Bundle Maker
Mary A Clark (Head) aged 49 born Lancashire Laundress
Charles (Son) aged 13 born Hornsey
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Christian Jaud
Detective Sergeant
Username: Chrisjd
Post Number: 71
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 12:50 pm: | |
Frank, thank you for your answer.
Could someone confirm my interpretation of Viper's statement? If I'm correct (and Viper of course), it cannot be Miller's Court, right?
Christian
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 560
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 1:36 pm: | |
Hi.
As Andy and Sue ,brought the photo to light, claiming it to be a rare photograph of Millers court, mayby they would be in the best position to verify its authenticity
Richard. |
Timsta
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 2:14 pm: | |
Chris:
Solomon Shremeldy (Head) aged 25 born London City Costermonger
I can't help but notice the similarity of this name to one-time (but now I believe discredited) Ripper suspect Alois Szeremeldy.
Also, somewhere on these boards I posted my thoughts on the strong resemblance of the clothing of Astrakhan Man to the exaggerated 'Sunday best' outfit worn by costermongers at the time, as detailed in Kellow Chesney's book "The Victorian Underworld".
I wonder if possibly - just possibly - Kelly was in fact talking to her neighbor?
Regards
Timsta
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Jim DiPalma
Sergeant
Username: Jimd
Post Number: 50
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 10:48 am: | |
Hi All,
Christian, yes, from what you've described, it's the same picture. Thanks for posting Viper's write-up, that's the one I was thinking of. And FWIW, I agree with your interpretation - I don't think the photo could possible be of Miller's Court.
Richard, I would agree that the men in the photo appear to be dressed in mid-to-late 1920s fashions. But that doesn't necessarily date the photo to that specific time - the men could simply be wearing suits that are 10-15 years old. The only conclusion one can safely draw is that the photo could not have been taken *any earlier* than mid-to-late 1920s, since the men could not be wearing fashions that had not yet been invented. By the same line of reasoning, based on what the women are wearing, the photo could not have been taken any earlier than late 30s to mid-1940s. Look at the wrist of the older woman - isn't that a wristwatch?? I don't claim to be an expert on women's fashions either, and I could stand to be corrected here, but I'm fairly certain women did not wear wristwatches prior to the 1930s.
In any event, your last suggestion was most sensible - perhaps Andy or Sue would care to comment on the photo.
Best to all,
Jim |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 571
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 2:46 am: | |
Hi, Jim,
we do need some clarification, of this photo, If it is not millers court, it would surprise me , for it is exactly as it has always been described.
The mens outfits , ie suit and cap, was general wear around 1926, at the time of the great strike.
I Would say this picture may have been taken , a year or so before the court was demolished.
Richard. |
Jeff leahy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 1:39 pm: | |
Chris
As you know I am working on a model of millers Court. At present we have the end of Millers Court as a blank wall. Largely due to the fact that we have know information.
If your map is correct then it is likely that there was a door and possibly windows to a dewling. Would very much like to have your thoughts on this. Makes a big difference to our model which will have to be changed if your correct.
I guess were going to have to do some serious research to see if we can find the original plans for the building.
Thanks Jeff |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 836
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 9:51 am: | |
Jeff
In the light of your query Im posting another plan of the area between Dorset Street and Brushfield Street. The building I commented on I have highlighted in red. As I said above my guess would be that the yard (the blank white area) to the north of this building would most likely be the back yard of the building fronting onto Brushfield Street which seems to show some sort of small outbuilding to the back.
If that is correct, I cannot see any way in which this building marked could be accessed except by way of the end of Miller's Court.
Hope this helps
Chris
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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 188
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 3:57 pm: | |
Hi All
I had a discussion with Christian about the photo, and I agreed with him that Millers Court had two storeys, and not the three seen on the left of the photo. also I would have expected to see Spitalfields Market just to the left of the building in the background. There is a drawing in the 'Penny Illustrated paper' from the 17th November 1888, and it shows two storeys either side and also a blank wall (back of building) at the end of the court. I don't think the photo is of Millers Court, but it does look a picture taken in the mid to late twenties and I remember a passage from Leonard Matters book 'The Mystery of Jack the Ripper'
The house in which Kelly was murdered was closed, saved for one front room still occupied by a dreadful looking slattern who came out of Miller's Court into the sunlight and blinked at me.
When she saw me focus my camera to get a picture of the front of the house, the old hag swore at me, and shuffled away down the passage.
When I saw the photo and the old dear in the middle, that passage sprang to mind.
Going by memory, I think the photo itself is from a file of pictures in the Whitechapel Library, if I remember correctly it was the curator there who believes it is of Millers Court.
Rob |
Jeff Hamm
Inspector
Username: Jeffhamm
Post Number: 177
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 11:49 pm: | |
Chris,
These maps are great! Where did you find the large scale map you're using? I'm assuming you're scanning these in and not working from a downloaded file from somewhere? I've been wanting to try some computer simulations that require maps but don't have a decent map of London from the appropriate time.
Basically, what I want to try is to place "police" on the map, have them patrol their beats at their estimated speed. Using our "best guesses" for various times (like body discovery at x o'clock) and other "known locations with times" (I patrolled x street at), is to try and figure out where the police were in their beats during some time window around which various murders are thought to occur.
Using the Eddowes "beats" for example, this might suggest what "escape route" from Mitre Square was taken, etc.
Anyway, the map you have seems ideal for this. Is it a modern copy of an old map or have you purchased an antique of some sort?
- Jeff |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 190
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 2:57 pm: | |
Hi Jeff you can get reproductions of old ordnance survey maps from Alan Godfrey maps. Theres 3 years available for 'Whitechapel' 1873, 1894 and 1913 as well as some larger plans for 'Aldgate' and 'The Bank' (which includes Mitre Square. Any information you need is on there website www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/
All the best
Rob |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 844
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 2:58 pm: | |
Hi Jeff
You are right in that the maps above are scans from a map I bought. I actually bought it through E-bay and copies can still be bought from the company who print them who are based in wales. If you go onto E-bay and search under "Whitechapel" you will find the map listed. It is a reprint of an 1894 Ordnance Survey map of Whitechapel and the cost is four pounds which I though very reasonable.
the e-mail address for the company, called Rhayader Riverside Limited, is
carolines_maps@yahoo.co.uk
Hope this helps
Chris
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Jeff Hamm
Inspector
Username: Jeffhamm
Post Number: 179
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 8:21 pm: | |
Hi Rob and Chris,
Thanks a lot! Chris's maps have already helped me a great deal. I've had a very rough play, and it's lead to a bit of an idea. I'll post it here to see what you think.
PC Harvey testifies that when he heard the whistle he was on Algate returning towards Duke street. I've placed him about the D in Algate on Chris's map as an estimation (just turned at the end and has started "returning"). That places Watkins at the location of the body at that time. (1:44 am).
Harvey testifies he was in Church Passage about 3-4 minutes earlier. I've taken very rough estimates (using my finger to measure out the distance he's walked; like I said, very rough!) and then move Watkins back about the same amount along his route. This roughly places him at the last T in Street for King Street (just exiting St. James place) at the time when PC Harvey is in Church Passage.
Now, in Sudgen's book, there's a lamp indicated at the end of Church Passage. The presence of this light source would make it improbable that Harvey could actually see into Mitre Square to the location of the murder (directly in front of him), but of course easy for JtR to see him if he's still there.
Now, let's take the notion that JtR is actually there when Harvey patrolls Church Passage. Harvey can't see him because of the lamp, and after all, Mitre Square isn't part of his beat anyway. Given that, he may even only patroll the passage up to the point where he can check the section between Duke and what he can see under the lamp by the lamps' own light. His belt light, though, would indicate his presence.
Ok, now JtR is altered to the presence of PC Harvey comming up Church Passage. So, he leaves. He's got two ways to go, apart from Church Passage, and those are out to the Mitre Street, or into the alley that connects Mitre Square with St. James Place. Now, he's got blood on his hands at least, so out to the street isn't a good idea until he cleans up a bit.
So, he takes some apron, cuts across Mitre Square and down the alley towards St. James Place. Harvey is heading down Duke Street towards Algate. Watkins is heading down King Street with his back to the alley into St. James Place.
JtR sees the light from Watkins' belt, so heads the other way, towards Duke Street, and Harvey's beat means his back is towards JtR. JtR continues straight, cuts across Houndsditch along Stoney ?? and is probably off the map by 1:44.
Anyway, what's also interesting about this route is that it does head towards the location where the apron is later found, it also shows that this route passes through the "hole" in the patrols without JtR having to know the police beats by heart. He just needs to be scared off by Harvey, he's not seen because of the lamp, and he just heads away from the cops he sees.
- Jeff
(Message edited by JeffHamm on January 15, 2004) |
Jeff Hamm
Inspector
Username: Jeffhamm
Post Number: 180
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 11:02 pm: | |
Hi,
Deciding my finger is perhaps not quite the best ruler in town, I thought I would try something a bit more reliable.
Basically, I've copied the two beat maps you've posted and combined them into one map.
I've then written a quick program to calculate the distance of each beat. Watkins indicates his beat takes between 12 and 14 minutes to walk, and he claims he was through Mitre Square at 1:30 (saw nothing) and then finds the body at 1:44, which makes that patrol a 14 minute one. From this, and the assumption he's walking at more or less a constant rate throughout the patrol, I can estimate roughly where he was on the map.
I've done the same for PC Harvey, but at the moment I don't really have a statement from him about how long it takes to patrol his beat (I have the distance, just not the time). However, he says he heard the whistle while on Algate, (1:44) and had previously passed through Algate at 1:28 (time at the post offic). So, I've used this difference as his patrol time (16 min).
As a simple test of this, Harvey says he was patrolling Church Passage 3-4 minutes earlier. With the above estimations of his beat distance and circuit time, 3 minutes puts him in the appropriate location. 4 minutes puts him on his way back up Houndsditch. So, this seems to work well enough.
Working backwards with Watkins, and using 3 minutes of time, I've chosen 2 points of his patrol at which he finds Eddowes.
1) As soon as he enters the square or
2) After patrolling around the left parimeter (less likely though based upon his testimony).
If it's 1, then 3 minutes earlier places him in St. James's Place heading from the T in St to the S in James's (on Chris's map).
If it's 2, then 3 minutes places him on the parallel leg of his route out of St. James's Place (under Place on Chris's map).
Either way, we're looking him being in a visible location from the alley between Mitre Square and St. James's Place, and if JtR is using this as his escape route, then he can head the other way out of St. James's Place, which is towards the eventual location of the apron on Goulston street.
- Jeff |
Monty
Chief Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 637
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 7:08 am: | |
Jeff,
Now you've hit my favourite subject....escape !!
Your scenario in your post of 8.21pm today is exactly the same as the one I came up with. The lighting would be brighter where Harvey was than the corner which would mean Harvey would find it hard to peer into that corner, thus giving Jack the upper hand.
I do have slight differences though.
Mine was that Jack, alerted to Harveys prescence stood stock still. If Harvey didnt notice the body he wouldnt have noticed Jack. I also thought that Jack may have utilised the entrence to the yard. Stood flat against the gate in the alcove so to speak.
My other difference is that Jack wasnt disturbed by Harvey but rather NWM Morris opening the door to his warehouse. The noise may have given him reason to think "right, that was too close, Im off".
I have him as leaving via St James passage, across Houndsditch towards Middlesex st (via Stoney Lane) and New Goulston st onto the dwellings. I also did some maths....and a hell of a lot of walking. I cannot remember the results exactly but my conclusion was the only exit not covered (or slightly covered) by the beats at the estimated time of escape was St james passage. I shall have a rummage around for my notes this weekend.
Point of interest Watkins turn right so he came across Kate alomost instantly.
Mail me if you want my results.
Monty
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Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 348
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 8:19 am: | |
Monty/Jeff
I have done something similar and come up with similar results. Like Monty I have Jack staying with the body when he sees Harvey (actually I have him crouching in the dark of the corner). However I figured he had to leave by Church Passage. Having seen Harvey, he would know that it would be at least another ten minutes or more before he came round on his next patrol and so the route would be safe. Also if he left via St James Place, surely Blenkinsop would have seen him? |
Scott Nelson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Snelson
Post Number: 53
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 10:50 am: | |
Here's the scenario I came up with a couple of years ago:
I took the scale provided on Fido's Mitre Square Area map and knowing the approximate times for the police patrol rounds of Watkins and Harvey, divided time and distance information into one minute increments showing where each patrolman was in relation to each other and to the killer and witness(es). Starting with Watkins discovery of the body (approximately 1:44:30 am) and Harvey's location when George Morris found him on Aldgate-High St (approximately 1:45:30 am), then working backwards in time, here is a projected break-down by minute or by minute and a half intervals (times assume the rate of movement on each beat was constant):
1:28:30 Harvey checks Post Office clock between Duke St. and Houndsditch on Aldgate-High St., he then proceeds north on Houndsditch.
1:30:00 Watkins in Mitre Square - all is quiet.
1:31:30 Watkins heading northwest on Mitre Street between carriage-way entrance and King Street; Harvey at Houndsditch and Gravel Lane.
1:33:00 Watkins about to enter St. James Place; Harvey in Little Duke Street.*
1:34:00 Watkins looking down the St. James Passage into Mitre Square as he makes the turn back north. Harvey back on Houndsditch, still proceeding north.
1:34:30 Watkins leaves St. James Place via Creechurch Lane. Lawende, Levy and Harris pass man and woman at entrance to Church Passage on Duke Street. Harvey nearing junction to Goring Street.
1:36:00 Watkins opposite Bevis Market Synagogue on Hennage Lane heading southwest; Harvey proceeding south on Bevis Marks after walking west on Goring Street.
1:37:00 Harvey heading southeast on Bevis Marks at corner with Bury Street.
1:37:30 Watkins on Hennage Lane just before the corner to Bury Street, moving southwest.
1:38:00 Harvey moving southeast at corner of Bevis Marks and Hennage Lane (he misses Watkins by one and a half minutes).
1:39:00 Watkins on Creechurch Lane at Leadenhall Street heading south. Harvey turns around on Little Duke Street after walking as far as Houndsditch and heads west on the opposite side of the street and comes to the corner with the main thoroughfare of Duke Street, facing St. James Place.**
1:41:30 Watkins on Leadenhall St, heading east towards the junction with Aldgate-High St. Harvey at the bottom of Church Passage facing Mitre Square - sees and hears nothing.
1:43:00 Watkins turns corner northwest onto Mitre Street.
1:44:00 Watkins in front of Taylor's shop on Mitre Street (footsteps may be audible in Square at this point).
1:44:30 Watkins finds body. Harvey has gone south on Duke Street after emerging from the Church Passage. He has turned west on Aldgate and gotten as far as Mitre Street and turns to go back.
1:45:00 Watkins alerts Morris, they examine the body together, and Morris sent to fetch assistance.
1:45:30 Morris finds Harvey on Aldgate-High Street between Jewry Street and the Minories.
The only event of significant question may be when Harvey was at the bottom of Church Passage. He said he fixed the time by the Post Office clock in Aldgate, but this would have been about twelve minutes earlier (1:28 or 1:29) when he was patrolling east on Aldgate-High St. before turning north on Houndsditch. He would have passed this same clock again just about the time Morris finds him after the murder. He should have projected his estimate of the time back the five or six minutes previous when he stood at the bottom of the passage, if he was in front of the clock again at this point. Maybe he forgot to look at the clock in the excitement of Morris' summons.
* Did Harvey see anyone approach St James Place or crossing Little Duke Street at this point (cf Macnaghten's City P.C. Witness)
** If the murder and mutilations had been completed a few minutes earlier than about 1:39 am, it is possible that Harvey may have briefly seen the killer emerge from St. James Place at this point, but only thought that it was just another person passing on (Harvey facing west to view the enterence to the Square).
In either of these instances, one wonders if the "policeman…in Mitre Court" who only confirmed the Pole's height and build (see G.R. Sims article) could have been PC Harvey or another policeman.
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Monty
Chief Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 639
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 10:56 am: | |
Alan, Jeff, My Mother and Father,
Alan- Aye that’s a fair point departing via Church passage. If I was pushed for an alternative it would be that.
For me it’s the fact that he is exiting a passage that runs onto a busy thoroughfare. Its longer and narrower than St James and wouldn’t have given you much choice in where to go, and if confronted by someone coming the other way it would lead to a possible ID. St James Passage isn’t as long nor narrow so a one on one confrontation his reduced. But Im being picky, it wouldn’t make much difference.
As for Blenkinsopp, he would have seen what he had seen. He wouldn’t nay, couldn’t account for everyone. Apparently there was a couple in Orange square roughly the same time Kate was in the square with her killer yet he makes no mention of this. Of course it all could be tosh but you get my point.
I still stand by Morris being his exit trigger.
Monty
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Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 845
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 1:11 pm: | |
Hi Timsta
Only just seen your post - my eye was caught too by the superficial similarity between Shremeldy and Szemeredy but I think on grounds of age and place of birth we can probably discount any connection. Also dont forget the listing I gave above was for April 1891. The turnover of tnenats in Miller's Court was probably fairly rapid so there is no guarantee our Mr Shremeldy was libing there in late 1888.
Thanks for the post
Chris
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Jeff Hamm
Inspector
Username: Jeffhamm
Post Number: 181
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 3:39 pm: | |
Hi Everyone!
Good to see similar ideas have been proposed. Thanks for all the feedback and alternatives. Following Harvey is a possibility too, but it seems much riskier. Also, I agree with Monty, if Harvey "spooks" him, then he's not going to move until Harvey is at least heading away for a bit. That will move Watkins say 10 seconds or so further on his beat, but he's probably still in the vacinity of St. James's Place, so the route from St. James's Place and out across Houndsditch and away is "safe" once Watkins moves on (which JtR could observe from the passage, etc)
But, following Harvey down Church Passage, would let JtR observe which direction Harvey went, then he can go the other way. It may be possible, just seems riskier, mind you, almost everything JtR seems risky to me so there you go!
And, I think the door opening is testified as occuring just a few minutes before Watkins knocks on the door, so that event seems to be about the same time as Harvey patrolling. But, if the door opening was earlier, and Jack decides it's time to go, then JtR may have seen Harvey as he entered Church Passage; or more accurately Jack may have seen Harvey's light. So, he bolts to the proposed route and is not spotted (Harvey's at the wrong end comming up), etc... You know, that almost sounds plausible too!
Anyway, what I want to eventually try are some simulations that include Jack. Basically, have a Jack "spawn" every 5 seconds and leave and follow some proposed route, every Jack that is "spotted" gets captured. In the end, we should have a time window of safty for some proposed route. Spotted by the police.
More complicated "escapes" may have to build in "pauses", but those are the details to be worked on, right now I want to keep the thing simple.
Does anyone know which buiding on the map is the post-office? Since we can place Harvey there at 1:28 I could use that information as a test of my speed parameters for him.
Thanks again.
- Jeff |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 846
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 4:13 pm: | |
Hi Jeff
If you look on my post of December 26 showing Harvey's beat, the post office is marked on the map. Look at the section between Duke Street and Houndsditch and you will see the letters PO. the post office was actaully the second building on the left as you turn out of Duke Street into Aldgate and walk towards Houndsditch.
Regards
Chris |
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