|
 |
 |
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
    
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 432
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 6:33 am: |       |
Chris P
I have to agree - I have missed the earlier post about the misreading and this invalidatesthe comments I made above
Regards
Chris |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 68
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 10:47 am: | |
Hi Chris Scott
It looks like your surmise that Miss B.A. Dutton and Ada Barbara Dutton are the same person may well be correct.
I have just found an entry in the Death Registers for Ada B. Dutton age 75 in 1942 (which fits). The death was registered in Paddington.
I shall send off for a copy of the death certificate and post any information received.
Regards,
John Savage |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 449
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 11:11 am: | |
Hi John
Well done in finding that and I look forward to seing the info you past
all the best
Chris |
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 104
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 7:34 am: | |
Hello Chris & John & Chris,
Interesting facts emerging,beginning to confirm Ada B Dutton of Paddington was the correct name for Thomas Dutton's sister.Nice going.
I have been provided with Dr Dutton's professional rooms as follows:
1892: Craven House, Northumberland Avenue.
1894: 7 Portland Place W.
1903: 7 Manchester Square, W.
1928: 25 New Cavendish Street, W.
1935: New Cavendish Street, W1.
Some of Dr Dutton's books contained mention of his professional address in a Foreward.
From at least 1914 (according to John Savage's earlier post quoting the British Boigraphical Index) Dr Dutton also gave his address as:
220 Uxbridge Road, W.
The 1920 Medical Directory also lists him at that address.And, of course, the WEST LONDON OSERVER obituary of Dr Dutton gave his final adress as:
290 Uxbridge Road, Shepherd's Bush.
Some confusion creeps in when we discover TWO Dr Duttons, residing at 'The Gorse', Sidlesham, Chichester in 1884.The Dr Thomas Dutton from that address was a registered member of the West Sussex Microscopical Society.As was Dr EDWARD GEORGE DUTTON (who qualified MRCS in 1876).
Dr Thomas Dutton was not listed as a member of that Society for any other year.
This is relevant when we realise Donald McCormick claimed all sorts of Microphotographical feats for Dr Thomas Dutton of that Society.(Photographing the Goulston Street graffiti for instance).
The West Sussex Records Office told me in 1977 they had no record of any such activity having been published in that Society's publication
around 1888.
By 1892 Dr Edward George Dutton was listed in medical registers as of: Sherbourne, Lipson Road, Plymouth; and a Dr Thomas Dutton as of:Craven House, Northumberland Avenue,W.C.
I hope this helps. |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 69
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 10:57 am: | |
Hi John
Thanks for listing Dr. Dutton,s addresses I am sure they will be useful.
In regards to the Chichester connection, you will recall that I posted details from "The Medical Who's Who 1914", and this shows that Dr. Dutton was Admiralty Surgeon and Agent (Chichester Harbour Division) 1881-4.
Regards,
John Savage |
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 106
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 8:41 pm: | |
Greetings All,
Recently, I wandered off to browse in my 1886 Debretts to see just how common the name "Hermione" was, way back then.
Whilst rambling, I discovered a "Thomas Dutton" who had purchased "Sherborne manor" in Gloucestershire in the late 1600's. His grandson, James Dutton, M.P. for Gloucester, was
conferred as "Baron Sherborne" in 1784.
You might notice above, my posting that both Thomas and Edward Dutton were doctors residing at Sidlesham, Chichester in 1884. The latter then moved to Plymouth where he resided, interestingly, in a house named "Sherborne".
If Edward Dutton was related to Thomas, we are left wondering if Thomas Dutton was a distant relative of Baron Sherborne, or that the Plymouth Edward Dutton had aristocratic pretentions.
I always found curious, McCormick's claim, or some other newspaper reports claim, Thomas Dutton had once been a rich race-horse owner who mixed with the aristocratic "horsey" crowd.
We all know the danger of Coincidence: so I'll add the intriguing fact the Second Baron Sherborne had an uncle: the Honorable Ralph Heneage Dutton (born 1821)! |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 71
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 4:13 pm: | |
Hi John
Interesting point about the house in Plymouth called "Sherborne, because if you go back to Chris Scott's post of August 19th (7.34pm) we find that the Dutton family lived during 1891 at a house called "Sherbourne" at Hastings, Sussex.
Regarding your point about a relationship with Baron Sherborne I noticed when refering to the same post that Dr. Dutton's father was born in Lydhurst, Hants, which is about 57 miles from the town of Sherborne in Dorset.
Perhaps you are on to something here?
Regards
John Savage |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 72
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 2:16 pm: | |
Hi all,
I have today received a death certificate for Ada Barbara Dutton and details are as follows:
Registration District, Paddington,
1942 DEATH in the Sub-district of Paddington West.
Column 1. When & Where died - Second August 1942, Paddington Hospital.
Column 2. Name and Surname - Ada Barbara Dutton.
Column 3. Sex - Female
Column 4. Age - 75 years.
Column 5. Occupation - of 107 Westbourne Park Road Paddington. Spinster formerly a Lady, Unmarried Daughter of George Dutton (bank Manager, deceased)
Column 6. Cause of death - Myocardial Degeneration, Arterio sclerosis, Senility. Certified by E Wiseman MD.
Column 7. Signature , description and residence of informant - Helena Dutton, Sister, The Manor Cottage, Wroughton, Swindon.
Column 8. When Registered - Fourth August 1942.
Column 9. Signature of registrar - O Mackay.
The above from a CERTIFIED copy of an entry in the certified copy of a Register of Deaths in the District above mentioned.
I must add that the interpretation of the handwriting is mine, and that a couple of words are a little unclear.
I think that we can say that we have now found Miss B. Dutton, the doctor's sister, and I will proceed to look for further details regarding Helena, as, if any of Doctor Duttons effects passed on through his family, this would seem to be the line they would take.
It should also be noted that the earlier address for Miss B.A. Dutton,is given as Cornwall Road, this later was renamed Westbourne Park or Westbourne Park Road, so it is possible that although we have a different address on each death certificate it could possibly be the same house.
Regards,
John Savage
|
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 485
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 10:52 am: | |
Well done John - interesting stuff!
I have been asked to write up the recent Dutton material for The Ripperologist- is it OK if I include your stuff as well, with appropriate credits of course?
regards
Chris
|
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 73
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 4:46 pm: | |
Hi Chris,
Please feel free to use anything I have posted here for your article in The Ripperologist. If I can help any further just let me know. Also, if of use, I could e mail you copies of the death Certs.
Regards,
John Savage |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 494
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 8:30 pm: | |
Hi John
Many thanks for your kind reply.
the death certs would certainly be useful and if you could send Id be very grateful
I'll mail you a copy of the article when it is done
regards
Chris |
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 110
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 7:11 am: | |
Excellent terrier-like tenacity John in your seeking out of Dutton relatives. Well done!
I think this just serves to give heart to all those disheartened researchers who have received 'temporary' set-backs in their own personal quests.
There is no doubt in my mind, John Savage deserves high praise for winkling out evidence which confirms, Dr Thomas Dutton was a real person
with actual relatives.
As Stewart Evans and Keith Skinner have deduced in their LETTERS FROM HELL, the real test will be in discovering the legendary 'Chronicles of Crime'
and seeing whether the information they contain
is as vital as Donald McCormick maintained!
I was remiss in informing Casebook readers the details of Dr Dutton's professional addresses
provided above, were generously supplied by the good offices of Stewart P. Evans.
Get well soon, Stewart. |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 495
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 8:14 am: | |
Hi John and John:-)
I have found some details about Helena Dutton from the 1901 census. There is one discrepancy but from two items of data I am pretty certain it is the right one.
According to the ages given on the 1881 census (12 years old) and the 1891 census (22 years old) for Helena, we could of course expect her to be listed in the 1901 census as 32 years old. However, there are 5 entries under the name of Helena Dutton in the 1901 data, the oldest of whom is listed as 28 years old. However, from the previous census data, we have the place of birth for "our" Helena as Bayswater. One of the 1901 Helenas is listed as born in Bayswater. Added to this is the fact that this Helena Dutton is listed as living in Clarendon Road, Kensington, which is the same road as wher her brother Thomas is listed as living in 1901 (see post above with his 1901 details)
By 1901 Helena had left the parental nest and was a Governess in the household of William Dellar, a commercial traveller. The address was 16 Clarendon Road, Kensington. Her age is listed as 25 years of age.
As this is almost certainly the Helena we are looking for (same place of birth, Kensington area, same road as her brother) it would be interesting to know how the 7 year discrepancy over her age arose.
I am posting the entry below and hope it's of use
regards and keep up the good work
Chris
 |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 75
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:06 am: | |
Hi John Ruffels,
Many thanks for your words of praise, and I am still looking for more information on Dr. Dutton's family in the hope that we may eventually find a living relative, this is of course time consuming I shall keep posting anything else that I find over the coming weeks.
Regarding the "Sherborne" connection I have found an entry in The Times of Jan 7th. 1935 which refers to the funeral of one Henry Dutton, which took place at Hinton Ampner, Hants (about 7 miles east of Winchester). The interesting part is that one of the mourners was Lord Sherborne.
Given that Dr. Dutton's father came from Lyndhurst, Hants., it is quite possible that they may be related, although at this stage I cannot be sure.
Regards,
John Savage |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 76
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:11 am: | |
Hi Chris Scott,
As you know, I have now found the Helena Dutton who was the sister of Ada Barbara, and therefore the sister of Dr. Dutton.
I am now searching the Death Registers for her and if I am able to find her we should then have good proof of her age.
Regards,
John Savage
|
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 80
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:38 am: | |
Hi All,
I managed to get down to the British Library Newspaper archive at Colindale yesterday.
It occurs to me that the article in the Daily Express of 12th November 1935 has never been printed in full in any of the relevent books, so I post it here now. Because of the size I will have to split it into two posts, so here goes with number 1.
 |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 81
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:53 am: | |
Second part of article from Daily express 12th. November 1935
 |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 83
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 12:52 pm: | |
During my visit to Colindale I came across an article in the "West London & Hammersmith Gazette" 15th. November 1935 (page 4). I do not recall seeing this article before, and although it does not add anything new to our knowledge, I thought it may be useful to post it here.
DESERTED HOME OF DEAD RECLUSE DOCTOR
Rooms covered with dust and cobwebs, and papers seemingly untouched for years, were found by a coroner's officer making formal inquiries into the death of Dr. Thomas Dutton, of Uxbridge Road, Sheperd's Bush.
Dr. Dutton was discovered lying dead beside his bed during the week-end.
Dr. Dutton who practically lived the life of a recluse, specialized in obesity.
Hew Had few patients, devoting the greater part of his time to writing articles on dietetics for medical journals.
He was a fellow of the Hunterian Society, and a former vice chairman of the Pure Food Society.
An inquest will not be held.
Regards,
John Savage |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 549
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 1:40 pm: | |
Hi John
A very interesting find and thanks for posting.
I was very interested to read that detectives visited and took away documents - fascinating stuff
All the best
Chris
|
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 121
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 9:11 pm: | |
Thanks for posting the DAILY EXPRESS article concerning Dr Dutton's death John.
Like Chris Scott, I too was interested in the mention of documents taken away.
The lone woman patient mentioned, one is tempted to suppose, might have been the elusive Miss Hermione Dudley.
If Dr Dutton was an authority on obesity, might he have been prescribing "slimming pills"?
Might Miss Hermione Dudley be elusive because her name was an alias used by a 'respectable' person wishing to conceal her dependency on slimming pills? Prescribed by an impecunious gambling
medical man.
A bit of a quantum presumption I know...
But, to me, the most interesting mention in the article, was that Dr Dutton had inherited :
" valuable estates but realised them and went through a large fortune".
This causes me to wonder if Dr Thomas Dutton might have been the eldest child of the titled
Dutton family (Baron Sherborne) mentioned above... |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 134
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 1:54 pm: | |
Hi all,
If I may suggest a line of investigation here, regarding Dutton's medical reputation, perhaps he contributed articles to "THE LANCET" concerning
obesity and diet. It is possible he did - other
doctors supposedly contributed to the medical journal. According to his biography in the original Dictionary of National Biography, Dr. Edward William Pritchard wrote articles in THE LANCET.
Also, why did Dr. Dutton have a fully loaded revolver on his premises? Did he ever get threatened, and by whom. And why did the police decide to take his papers?
Best wishes,
Jeff |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 87
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 6:03 pm: | |
Hi John,
I too would be interested to see the papers taken away by the police, however I must admit I am not sure how to go about searching for these, so any suggestions would be welcome.
Regarding the woman for whom Dr. Dutton wrote prescriptions, I would like to know her name as well, as I agree with you that this could have been Miss Dudley, although I doubt that his prescription books will have survived. The next step I think will be to consult Kelly's Directory for 1935 and see if we can find who else lived at the address of Ada Barbara Dutton, but that may have to wait until the next time I am in London.
Your earlier information regarding the Sherbourne family may also allow me to trace a legacy from that family, which mentions Dr. Dutton. The search goes on.
Hi Jeffrey,
According to his entry in the "Medical Who's Who" of 1914 Dr. Dutton did indeed write articles for The Lancet and other medical Journals, also the "Hunterian Society" mentioned in the article from the West London & Hammersmith Gazette, was a society for eminant medical professionals. As to the the rusting revolver found in his possesions, could this have been a souvenier from his time as a ships doctor?
Regards,
John Savage |
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 124
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 6:36 am: | |
Hello Jeffrey and John S.,
I think I can agree with John about the loaded revolver.However, Dr Dutton does seem to have been a rather profligate gambler early on.
Regarding the woman for whom Dr Dutton wrote the prescription/s:various newspaper reports talk of:- Dr Dutton having only one patient;
The police are looking for a female patient
for whom Dr Dutton wrote a prescription;
The doctor's sister inquired from a tenant
after not seeing her brother for a time;
The tenant, a young man, broke in for the Dr's
sister, when they then found his body;
A link is made in one article between the Dr and
a long-time friend and patient, Miss Hermione
Dudley;
Police direct inquiries to a West End woman
who visited the doctor, who gave her a
prescription.
One newspaper said he had seen his last patient
over a week(?) ago.
All this seems to point to Miss Dudley being the mysterious patient, and if so, her address was the West End. Was the Dudley address we had a West end address? |
Chris Phillips
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 106
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 7:34 am: | |
Miss Dudley was supposed to be in a Bayswater boarding house, I think. West London, certainly, but I tend the think of the West End being a bit further east - east of Hyde Park, say.
Chris Phillips
|
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 89
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 1:08 pm: | |
Hi Chris Phillips,
You are absolutely correct, the Sunday Chronicle article of 17th. November states, " Miss Hermione Dudley, friend and patient of the doctor, told me the story of his "passionate interest in crime" when I called on her at a Bayswater boarding house"
I am informed by the London Metropolitan Archive that they hold electoral registers for the period 1935-39 so it may be possible to find her there, or in Kelly's Directory.
Jeffrey,
Regarding the Sherbourne connection i thought you may be interested in this extract from the British Biographical Index.
Regards,
John Savage |
|
Use of these
message boards implies agreement and consent to our Terms of Use.
The views expressed here in no way reflect the views of the owners and
operators of Casebook: Jack the Ripper.
Our old message board content (45,000+ messages) is no longer available online, but a complete archive
is available on the Casebook At Home Edition, for 19.99 (US) plus shipping.
The "At Home" Edition works just like the real web site, but with absolutely no advertisements.
You can browse it anywhere - in the car, on the plane, on your front porch - without ever needing to hook up to
an internet connection. Click here to buy the Casebook At Home Edition.
|
|
|
|
