|
 |
 |
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
    
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 86
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 5:41 pm: |       |
Hi Neal
Great idea (the museum, not you and Monty in drag). Although I think a combinded Jack the Ripper/local history museum would not only help appease the locals, but the East End is so rich in history that I am surprised there isn't anything there already.
As for locations the old Commercial Street Police station is still standing and I could just imagine one of the rooms being recreated as an incident room (was it called a muster room?).
All the best
Rob |
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 60
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 6:42 pm: | |
On the museum point, if it could happen it would be essential to get experts in Victorian costume and East End language involved to create authenticty. Despite the numerous accounts we have about what the victims and suspects wore, nothing would give us a better idea than to see actors or a waxwork figure wearing the clothes in a museum.
I've often looked at the series of books by the publishers Dorling Kindersly that have detailed descriptions of films like Star Wars. These books have page after page descriptions of costumes worn by the actors and actresses, and they always get me thinking about the Jack the Ripper case. There is a need for an accurate visual interpretation of the case, after all, how many times have people posted on these boards that they'd like to know what a "wideawake hat" was?
Just as I feel that photographs add a great deal to a book, a museum would have to recreate the sights and sounds of the events of 1888. One thing that I noticed about vistors to the Titanic exhibition and the Leonardo exhibition (at Buckingham Palace) was that people tended not to stay too long reading the information on the walls. Most people took a quick look at the artifacts or pictures and then moved on, so I think a JTR museum would have to recognize the need for a visual education for visitors.
And I know that some people might be horrified, but there would need to be a museum shop where visitors could buy books etc, to bring in funds for the museum. |
Monty
Detective Sergeant
Username: Monty
Post Number: 72
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 12:01 pm: | |
Robert, Neal,
I believe the Commercial st police station is now residential flats.
Are you going for a Black country museum meets the Black museum type thing ??
Monty
 |
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 89
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 6:27 pm: | |
Hi Monty
They could always be evicted.
I just think a building with a Ripper connection would be appropriate.
I remember going to 'The Museum of Moving Image' some years back and the most interesting parts of the museum is when they had staff dress up as usherettes from different periods, and they talked in character of the cinema and movie stars at that particular time. (it was better than how I just discribed it).
Rob
|
Monty
Detective Sergeant
Username: Monty
Post Number: 76
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 11:33 am: | |
Rob,
Just as long as I dont have a Ginger haired Irish Prostitute, on display, spitting at me as she is shouting, just like they have in the London Dungeon, then I guess its a step forward.
I swear she would have copped it !! 
Buildings ? Thats a hard one...Id have gone for the Old Board school in Durward st...but I agree, it would be nice if it had a connection.
Monty
|
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 91
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 5:42 pm: | |
Hi Monty
Do they have prostitues in the London Dungeon then?
I believe the Old Board School is residential flats also. And having a good long hard think, the only building I can think of still standing with a connection is the 'Woking Lads Institue' next to the Whitechapel Underground Station.
Rob |
Monty
Detective Sergeant
Username: Monty
Post Number: 77
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 11:09 am: | |
Rob,
Yes the Oldy Boardy Schooly is residential now.
How about the Ten Bells ??....I can see the attraction....and taste it !!
'Do they have prostitues in the London Dungeon then?'.
Yes.....and a few Queens, the pox and a queue that lasts for 10 days when the attraction takes an hour.....oh and French people !!
Monty
|
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 92
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 3:26 pm: | |
Hi Monty
When I was last at the London Dungeon, about four years ago, the staff kept telling me to have a horrible day. And I did.
Isn't the Ten Bells a restuarant now? I am sure it closed down as a pub. Not enough tourists and not enough locals frequented it. Or it may have been the 'Ripper tipple'
Rob |
Monty
Detective Sergeant
Username: Monty
Post Number: 81
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 7:30 am: | |
Rob,
I last had a pint in the Bells just before christmas gone. It looks shut and when you go in its dead...pardon the pun.
There was a lurvely Irish lass working there 
I do hope its not been converted.
Monty
PS...just seen your photo in your profile, you're not the short arse are you ?....I refused to have mine done...they insisted....I got all intimidatory....it ended there. |
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 93
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 5:43 pm: | |
Hi Monty
I'll take that as a compliment.
Lurvely Irish lass in the Ten Bells? I'll have to investigate. I passed there about 3 weeks ago (although I was on the otherside of the road) and it looked shut. I will check next time I am passing.
Rob |
John R. Fogarty
Sergeant
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 8:50 pm: | |
Monty, All,
An excellent idea, re, a Jack the Ripper "living" museum. Have you seen the mock up in Madame Toussade's basement? Great reproductions of a typical Whitechapel hovel, complete with bedraggled waxwork slattern, along with a facsimile of the Ten Bells pub and a "typical" JTR victim in situ (looks like a cross between Kate Eddowes and Annie Chapman). I'll attach pics.
(b.t.w., Wot's all this about Monty in drag? Any photos yet???)
The third face (from left, just over girl's shoulder) is a wax figure.
An excellent mock up of ye olde Ten Bells.
Ripper victim in situ -- all pics taken at Madame Toussade's, 1995.
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy) |
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 207
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 11:09 am: | |
Gory,
Never been to Madame whassernames.
Been by many a time on my way to Euston towers (where I use to work).
Photos of me in drag ?? How much you willing to pay ????
PS Nice piccys.
Monty
|
John R. Fogarty
Sergeant
Username: Goryboy
Post Number: 30
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 11:30 am: | |
Monty,
I would cheefully part with fourpence, the price of a night's lodging in Flowery Dean (or a shot of cheap gin) for a pic of you in drag -- provided it's posted on the boards!
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy) |
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 220
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 11:52 am: | |
Gory,
You need to do better than that big boy !!
Monty
|
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 282
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 8:11 pm: | |
Hi, Monty, Goryboy, etc.
Robin Odell spoke at the Liverpool convention about the need for a Ripper archive, and he offered to donate his papers for such an archive. I would suggest that an institution devoted to Ripper studies could be both a museum visitable by the general public and a repository of information on the case that could be used by serious researchers. In fact, possibly the museum function of the institution could help to fund the other, research function.
All the best
Chris George |
Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2830
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 10:51 am: | |
Being in the USA I'm not sure I could help much with a Ripper museum, but I would certainly be willing to set up an online Ripper archive. If authors and researchers would be willing to donate their notes to the Casebook, I could sort, catalogue, scan and post them live to the site for everyone's benefit.
In fact if anyone here would like to approach Mr. Odell with the idea, please feel free to put him in touch with me.
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper |
Saddam
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 1:07 am: | |
I think the idea of a Ripper museum speaks volumes about Ripperologists. Why do we want such a thing? There are museums of culture, aircraft, natural history, towns and cities, and many other subjects. But a museum of Ripperology memorializes--what? Jack the Ripper? Why memorialize a brutal murderer? The Victorian period? There are already museums for that. Ditto the news media. It seems to me that a museum of Ripperology should memorialize just that--Ripperology. Thus exactly what Ripperology is must be determined first.
Does anybody care about this question? Nah. Not where money, power and prestige are up for grabs!
Saddam
|
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 231
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:02 pm: | |
Saddam,
A museum of Jack the Ripper history....not Ripperology....a word I detest.
A museum that takes in the social and historical background during these murders. I have been educated on the late victorian era far better via this subject than I had been at school.
So going along with your thinking, the Holocaust exhibition at the IWM memorialises the brutal extermination of the Jews along with other races and creeds?..in other words..brutal murder.
When I visited I saw hundreds of boots in a pile, diaries and picture by children in hiding and an autopsy slab to name but a few thing which literally make your stomach churn and fill you with nausea.
Memorialise ? Whats wrong with that ?
What ? You'd rather we forget ?
Yeah, I care about your question.
Monty |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 117
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 9:08 pm: | |
Hi all,
Occasionally I have read this particular threat, without commenting. The reason is that I find myself torn between the views of Monty and Saddam on the matter.
Yes, I find it somewhat appalling that a museum should be named or dedicated to one of the most
fiendish figures of the last two hundred years. Yet, when considering the image of the various
Holocaust Museums around the globe, I do see a
viability here. But we have to get priorities on
such a project straight.
Firstly - it must never be the intention of the
creators to HONOR whoever was Jack the Ripper. I
am reminded of a story I heard regarding the late
Werner Klemperer. He was of German Jewish descent, his father Otto being a famous orchestra
conductor. When he was offered the big acting
role of his career (Commandant Klink in Hogan's
Heroes) he insisted that he would only play the
role if the series never honored those guys (the
Nazis). Similarly we can't allow any institute
to honor a creep who got his pleasure by destroying women (even if the reason turned out to be a form of insanity).
Therefore, if such an institution is created, it
should be named or dedicated in honor of the victims of the creep. Possibly, THE LADIES OF
WHITECHAPEL MUSEUM and STUDY CENTRE.
Secondly, while exhibits dealing with the crimes
would be involved in the museum, the collections must also look into the lives of the citizens of
19th Century London and Whitechapel (particularly
the prostitutes). Possibly the collections would
also look at other contemporary law and order
problems (including crimes) of the late 19th
Century.
Anyway, that is how I would start to structure it.
Such an institution might take many decades to
reach a fruition - if it even gets off the ground.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 234
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 6:34 am: | |
Jeff,
I fully agree.
Monty
|
Jennifer D. Pegg
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 88
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 4:35 pm: | |
jeff and co
that is a good title for such a place as i think a centre for research is a good idea. i was suprised how many people think JTR equates to frankistiens monster and dracula.
it is not right to view such an istitution like we might that of say a museum of the brontes (a celebration of their lives and work) more a centre for studying not gloryfying what has happened in the past!
jp |
Diana
Detective Sergeant
Username: Diana
Post Number: 129
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 8:39 pm: | |
To keep the right mentality it would be necessary to exclude with a few carefully chosen exceptions the use of humor. I realize that it all depends what you are laughing at, but the deaths of these women cannot be allowed to be trivialized by making them the subject of laughter. Humor is a wonderful thing in the right context but it frequently is used to demean and I don't think that can be allowed. |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 118
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 8:58 pm: | |
Hi all,
I have been thinking about it a bit more. There are other models besides the various Holacaust
Museums. The three that come to mind are in the
United States: Ford's Theatre (and across the
street - The Peterson House), The Texas School Book Depository in Dallas, and the Lizzie Borden
House in Fall's River, Massachusetts.
The two museums dealing with the assassination of
Lincoln do mention Booth and his co-conspirators
(they have to). But Ford's Theatre is also used
for theatrical purposes as well. Several U.S.
Presidents have attended performances there - but
nobody is allowed to use the Presidential box that
Lincoln used that night. It remains a shrine.
Peterson House is also a shrine to the 16th President - as the place he died.
The Book Depository is being transformed into a
museum in honor of John Kennedy, although it does
mention Oswald as the alledged assassin.
As for the Borden House, it is (like James and
Florrie Maybrick's home) a house - it does get a
large of visitors because of the appeal of the
Borden Case mystery. However, it is also a bed and breakfast. [I have never been there, so I do
not know if they sell souvenir hatchets.]
In reality there are hundreds of locations around
that were sites of homicides, many of still well
remembered ones. The Dakota, the site of John
Lennon's assassination in 1980, is one - but it
was (and remains) a very posh address to live at
in Manhattan (one of the best locations on the
Central Park West side). Besides the home of the
Maybricks, I believe that the Priory in Balham
(the site of the poisoning of Charles Bravo in
1876) is still standing, as is Road House, where
Francis Saville Kent was murdered in 1860. But
I believe they are used as homes.
Some buildings are gone. The Temple of Music, in
Buffalo, New York, where William McKinley was shot
in 1901 was eventually torn down when the Pan
American Exposition closed. A small stone marker is still standing there - in memory of the President. Nothing remains, in Washington, D.C.,
of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Terminal where
President Garfield was shot in 1881.
There are probably other locations one can think of regarding murder sites, or in honor of a particular crime. Has anyone out there anything else in mind?
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Saddam
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 12:59 am: | |
I appreciate the above, but I still don't think folks are getting my point. What is the specific difference of the Whitechapel murders? What is that one thing that we need a museum for? I can understand why we need a holocaust museum, the holocaust was a huge historical event that we should keep in front of us, so it won't recur. I can understand why we might need a museum of women, or of Victorian women. But these are NOT museums of JtR. The question remains, why do we need a museum of JtR? What is the central issue of JtR? If we don't know the theme of our museum, than what do we have a museum of?
Saddam
|
Michael Raney
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 4:01 pm: | |
I totallly agree that the purpose of a Museum on Jack the Ripper should not be to honor his deeds, but as a place to study this fascinating case and possibly to honor ALL the victims of his crimes, namely, all the residents of Whitechapel at the time.
Mikey, who is finally back on the mend, back at work and applying for an account so I can catch up on all that I have missed! |
|
Use of these
message boards implies agreement and consent to our Terms of Use.
The views expressed here in no way reflect the views of the owners and
operators of Casebook: Jack the Ripper.
Our old message board content (45,000+ messages) is no longer available online, but a complete archive
is available on the Casebook At Home Edition, for 19.99 (US) plus shipping.
The "At Home" Edition works just like the real web site, but with absolutely no advertisements.
You can browse it anywhere - in the car, on the plane, on your front porch - without ever needing to hook up to
an internet connection. Click here to buy the Casebook At Home Edition.
|
|
|
|
