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Diana
Detective Sergeant
Username: Diana
Post Number: 120
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 9:20 am: |       |
Is it possible that JTR was doing other things besides murder/mutilations? I have wondered for years if he was into arson. The Nichols killing happened the night of a huge docks fire. Then there was the blaze in Kelly's fireplace. Maybe he had some sick need to burn things? Other possibilities are endless -- child or animal abuse, assault, rape, burglary, murder with a totally different m.o. Would newspapers of the time preserve a record of what kinds of other crimes were being perpetrated in Whitechapel at the time? Especially during the time periods that were part of his pattern. |
Jeff Hamm
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jeffhamm
Post Number: 136
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 7:46 pm: | |
I've only come across this. Interesting observation Diana. Arson is considered a warning sign of future violence, along with cruelty to animals, and bed wetting. It would be interesting to know if the dock fires were arson or if they were the result of an accident? The latter removes the connection.
Anyway, I've not seen anyone report or discuss non-murder type crimes also being committed concurrent with the Ripper series. Either nobody has looked at this way (so if you find anything, let us know) or people have looked and not found anything (which would also be useful to know; knowing what isn't connected can be just as useful as knowing what is!).
- Jeff |
Glenn L Andersson
Chief Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 525
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 9:44 pm: | |
Hi all,
It is absolutely true that many serial killers have started their "career" with arsons, and I believe Hazelwood meant that this could be valid in the Ripper's case as well. We can at least assume that he didn't come up with these gruesome acts out of the blue.
I wonder if our research genius Chris Scott would be able to find some interesting paper articles about the docks fire...
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Erin Sigler
Sergeant
Username: Rapunzel676
Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 9:50 pm: | |
I would look for strangulation murders, attempted strangulations, and possibly voyeuristic, "nuisance" crimes such as peeping and/or theft of women's garments. |
Glenn L Andersson
Chief Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 526
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 6:43 am: | |
Absolutely, Erin. It would be a fair guess to assume that he, apart from arson and torturing animals, would have shown a disturbing or threatening begaviour that would have caused his relatives or neighbours to call the police. Maybe even early violent outbursts or occasional threats involving knives could be possible, but most importantly - as you say - crimes of indecent or sexually immoral/deviant nature. I bet he's in the police records somewhere.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Shannon Christopher
Inspector
Username: Shannon
Post Number: 153
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 1:10 pm: | |
Erin, Glenn, problem with looking for other crimes normally associated with serial killers in 1888 is that the police of the day didn't realize there was a correlation. It is entirely possible our killer started with simple control issues like killing animals; but, in Whitechapel no one would report it as a crime if they found a mutilated cat or dog. It would merely end up being collected with the trash and forgotten. Again, had the police picked up “Jack” for peeping or voyeurism it would have been seen as a perversion in and of itself and not associated with other crimes. In their mindset it’s a far cry to go from peeping in windows or setting fires to murder mutilation of another human being. For us 115 years later we are left without the clues because the news papers of the day were more interested in sensationalizing the murders, and not interested in writing about someone who appeared before the magistrate for peeping or any of the other activities associated with the early development of a serial killer. I fear what we are looking for has been lost to the cutting room floor around the chief editor’s desk…
Shannon
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Erin Sigler
Sergeant
Username: Rapunzel676
Post Number: 22
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 1:44 pm: | |
Good point, Shannon. Even now the police (and of course the press!) often don't connect early, non-violent crimes with later murders. However, I still think it would be worthwhile to search both the press archives and police records. You just never know what might turn up. |
Glenn L Andersson
Chief Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 539
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 2:11 pm: | |
Hi Shannon,
Of course you are right about this and I for my part has also taken that in consideration. Naturally we can't expect that the police would make such a correlation, that was not my point.
But I think it would be interesting nevertheless to study some of those taken in custody for arson or sexual depraved behaviour during a certain period of years. It probably wouldn't get us anywhere, but it could be a worthwhile excursion all the same. It is we who are making this connection, to expect that the police of the time would have done so, would of course be a naive assumption.
Regarding the docks fire, this would have been covered in the papers, but as far as the sexual or violent crimes are concerned we should turn to the police files (if these still exists), not the papers.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
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