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John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 78
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 7:28 am: | 
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Now I know Chris Phillips raised the subject of Miss Hermione Dudley on the Dr Thomas Dutton thread in "Notable Persons" a few months back;but our armchair detective-work fizzled out.
I think it would be useful to establish if Miss Dudley actually existed. She did not appear in the 1891 Census.
I know all you Harry Potter fans are going to point out that two characters in those books are called "Hermione" and "Dudley", (and that clue was delivered to me by a Google search), but the 1935 newspaper mention of Miss Dudley as being the last-known possessor of Dr Thomas Duttons "Chronicles of Crime" makes Miss Dudley an intriguing player.
Telephone books and directories failed to produce
evidence of her existence.
Was she an invention of the SUNDAY CHRONICLE reporter?
Come on all you detectives...Thinking caps on!
For more information consult Donald McCormick's THE IDENTITY OF JACK THE RIPPER, or just type her name in the "search " space at the home page of the Message Boards.Or look under "Dr Thomas Dutton" in the "A to Z of JTR".
Any new suggestions? |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 57
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 9:03 pm: |
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Hi John
I agree that it would be of great interest if we could find out more information about the ilusive Miss Hermione Dudley.
I have searched the census reports available online with no result whatever. A google search for this lady is seriously hampered by the half million or so references to Harry Potter.
I beleive that the only way forward on this is to go back to original newspaper reports at Colindale, and see were this leads. Alas due to to work and my being a couple of hundred miles away from London I have been unable to do this; however when circumstances permit I look forward to searching further.
It must also be remembered that Miss Dudley could be nothing more than a figment of the imagination of DonaldMcCormick.
Any suggestions on finding Miss Dudley would be much appreciated.
Regards,
John Savage |
Chris Phillips
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 81
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 4:17 am: |
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Since the previous discussion, I've looked at Evans and Skinner's "Letters From Hell", which has some more press extracts and information on Dutton.
They print extracts from Dutton's letters to Paul Feldman, in which he admits he was "put on the the Dutton story by a mortuary keeper".
This itself is enough to shed a great deal of doubt on whether he had ever met Dutton (I suppose it could be claimed that by coincidence the mortuary keeper told him about the death of a man he was already acquainted with, but it sounds very unlikely).
If he didn't know Dutton, I find it a bit difficult to work out how he could have tracked down Miss Dudley. I suppose if he was exceptionally thick-skinned, he could have gone to the funeral and button-holed the mourners ...
I also thought it was interesting to juxtapose these two extracts:
Daily Express, [?]13 November 1935:
... the police are trying to trace a woman whose name appears in his prescription book as one of his few patients.
It is thought she may be able to help the police in certain formal inquiries. She is not known at the address she gave to the doctor.
Sunday Chronicle, 17 November 1935:
... a woman who for years had been one of his few patients.
Miss Hermione Dudley, friend and patient of the doctor ...
Taking the Express report at face value, perhaps Miss Dudley could have been the woman sought. If so, the police could hardly have looked for her without revealing her name, so perhaps McCormick could have heard of her in that way. If she was living in boarding houses, as the Chronicle says, she might have been difficult to trace.
On the other hand, perhaps McCormick wrote the Express story, as he seems to have written the Chronicle one.
As far as searching for Miss Dudley, it would be feasible to look for a birth registration in the range, say 1901-15 (if we accept she was born after 1901 - a big assumption considering the inaccuracy of the 1901 census index, and the possibility she could have been living abroad). Equally, a will could be looked for in the annual indexes from 1935 onwards. Or, if anyone had the time, an electoral register for the Bayswater area around 1935 could be searched. That would be a big search, though.
Chris Phillips
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Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 326
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 5:17 pm: |
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Hi Chris
As a start I have looked at the full birth registers and can say that there is no birth registered under the name Hermione Dudley between the years 1900 to 1918 inclusive
Chris |
Chris Phillips
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 82
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 4:57 am: |
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Chris S
Thanks for that information. She certainly is an elusive woman, if she existed.
I suppose that, as well as the possibilities of mistranscription or living abroad, we should also allow for Hermione perhaps being her middle name rather than her first one.
But in the light of McCormick's general track record, I'd say there has to be a big question mark over Hermione's existence.
Chris Phillips
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John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 58
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 6:21 pm: |
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Chris Philips
Regarding the age of Miss Dudley, she is quoted in the Sunday Chronicle article as saying "I knew the doctor when I was quite a young girl".
This suggests to me that she could have been quite elderly in 1935, so that if she were between 50-70 years old we would need to search birth records from about 1865 onwards.
I have searched for her in the 1881 Mormon census and also the 1901 online census with no results.
My other thought is that someone must have informed the police of his death and it may be that their name appears on the Death Certificate. For this reason I have posted off an application for copy of same and will post here any relevant information.
Regards,
John Savage |
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 79
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 7:16 pm: |
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Well done to all you clever Hermione Sleuths.
It might be useful to quote another of Miss Dudley's clues, mentioned by author Donald McCormick concerning Miss Dudley, from his 1959 edition of THE IDENTITY OF JACK THE RIPPER :-
"My father was one of the few men to whom he showed this document" ( that is, the 'Chronicles of Crime' journal ), "and owing to my own interest in it, Dr Dutton gave it to me some time ago".
Now, this suggests we can search for a whole Dudley family in the London area prior to 1935 - the date of Dr Dutton's death.
Just how many Dudley families were there say, in the South West London area in 1900-1935 ?
Of course, the "Chronicles" may have only been LOANED to Miss Dudley.
A general warning should be issued concerning the accuracy of some of Donald McCormick's statements.
He was later the author of a book entitled THE TRUTH TWISTERS. |
Scott Medine
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sem
Post Number: 106
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 11:43 pm: |
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As someone who earns a living finding missing persons, whether they be truly missing or just not wanting to be found, sometimes it is best to work backward.
Let me first say that I do not know how British public records work so all of this is based on US State Open Records Laws and the Federal Freedom of Information Act. So, assuming tha Ms. Dudley was a real person, instead of checking birth records try checking death records. It is possible that Dudley may have been her married name or it may have been misspelled. It is also wise to check the church records in the area(s) where her name turned up. Some churches keep their own marriage records along with detailed baptismal records. The person who checked old telephone directories is on the right track but one must also check all directories from the general area. Business records may exist on her or a relative. The courts contain records on civil and criminal matters and a record may be found there. Property ownership or tax records may turn up a name. In America we are issued Social Security Numbers, if you are issued a similar number in England then maybe a master death file is kept by the government. In the US this file contains last known address, a break down of retirement benifits paid and of course name and number. If you suspect that she or her husband may have served in the Armed Forces then here in the US those records are open to the public. The local police may have records on her as being arrested or a crime victim. If not her then maybe a relative.
A good place to start is the last know area she was in. Start working backward from there. Most people do not travel more than 50 miles from the birth place. So, take a compass and measure out 50 miles on a map and draw a circle. This should be your starting point.
In cases this old, sometimes it is an asset to employ the services of a geneologist(sp?) or a historical research specialist. On this board Mark Pardoe comes to mind and he does a bang up job.
Peace,
Scott
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Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 427
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 5:20 pm: |
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Hi all
Recently in the Thomas Dutton thread I have posted a tentative identification of Thomas Dutton's family and his two sisters, Helena and Ada.
We now come back to the elusive Miss Hermione Dudley. having searched many different sources I slowly concluded that Hermione fell into one of two possible categories:
1) either she never existed or
2) if she was present in the data available it was under a different surname at least.
If scenario 2 was correct, then at some stage subsequently she either married or for some other reason which cannot at present be deduced, changed her surname. If she married and acquired the name Dudley, then either the reports quoted wrongly described her as Miss, or, she may have, as did an aunt of mine, have resumed the title Miss on the death of her husband but retained her married name.
The name Hermione is sufficiently unusual that it seemed worthwhile doing some searching in case anything showed up. To put this into context, in the 1891 UK census, there were only 15 Hermiones in London, and only 66 in the whole country.
I had already found Thomas Dutton in the 1891 census and he was living in Kensinton at 13 Colville gardens. So I decided to undertake a search on the following premises:
1) It was more likely than not that the family I was looking for, if they existed, would be of the same social class as Thomas, i.e. the professional classes.
2) It was probable, in view of Thomas' profession, that there may well be some medical connection within the family to explain how they became acquainted
3) They would be resident in or near the Kensington area in 1891
4) they would include among their number a family member called Hermione who could still feasinly have been alive at the time of Dutton's death in the mid 1930's
To be honest, in view of the scarcity of Hermiones, i thought it highly unlikely any household would fulfil all these criteria, but to my surprise one did!
I traced them back to the 1881 census and they were resident at the same address as in 1891.
Here is their data from 1881:
Address:
82 Redcliffe Square, Kensington, London
Head:
John Turner Caddy aged 39
Born in Parkham, Devon
Physician and Surgeon (Retired) From Royal Navy as Deputy Inspector General
Wife:
Florence Caddy aged 44
Born London, Middlesex
Author (Social Economy)
Children:
Florence aged 18
Born St Mary Church, Devon
Art Student
Arnold aged 15
Born St Mary Church, Devon
Scholar
Hermine H. (sic) aged 11
Born Parkham, Devon
Scholar
Adrian aged 2
Born Kensington, London
Servant:
Bertha Ballauf aged 18
Born Iserlohn, Germany
Domestic Servant
By 1891, their details were listed as follows:
Address:
82 Redcliffe Square, Kensington
Head:
John Turner Caddy aged 69
(Obviously either this or the 1881 age are wrong and I am virtually certain it is the 1881 one which is incorrect but will check on this)
Born Parkham, Devon
Retired Deputy Inspector General of Hospitals
Wife:
Florence Caddy aged 54
Born London Middlesex
Novelist/Author
Children:
Florence aged 28
Born St Mary Church, Devon
Artist/Sculptor
Arnold aged 25
Born St Mary Church, Devon
F R College Surgeons, England
Hermione Helena aged 21
Born Parkham, Devon
Organist (music)
Adrian aged 12
Born St Mary Abbots, London
Servant:
Sophie Blauefield aged 26
Born Schwerin, North Germany
General Servant
Of course, I cannot say definitevely that Hermione Caddy is, or became, Hermione Dudley. there is still work to be done, trying to trace a marriage etc
But I thought the work so far might be of some interest
Chris |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 428
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 5:25 pm: |
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To give you sight of the 1891 data, I am posting it below:
 |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 429
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 6:50 pm: |
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Two extra bits I have found since last post:
1) I have found John Turner Caddy in the Navy List. He is listed under Staff Surgeons for the year 1867 as follows:
240 John Turner Caddy, M.D. 07-Jul
The 240 is the reference number of the ship he joined and the date is that of his seniority.
Info from:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pbtyc/Navy_List_1870/Med_Offr_P_2.html
1) I have found the index entry for Hermione's birth. This was registered in the last quarter of 1869 (Oct-Dec) so at the time of Dutton's death in 1935 she would have been 66 or 67.
 |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 430
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 7:27 pm: |
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Here is the 1901 entry for the Caddy family which settles the matter of John T's age - the 1881 census was wrong and should have read 59 not 39
Their address at this time was Charter House, Stanmore Road, Richmond, Surrey
 |
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 102
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 5:02 am: |
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Thanks for your usual excellent work Chris.
Quite a clever angle to approach the search from.
The name itself suggests a certain strata of the class structure of Victorian England.
I have encountered a couple of Hermiones amongst the "upper crust" in an 1888 Debretts.
I might go back and see what birth dates etc are indicated.
The thought occurs to me, if we can believe some of the potted biographies of Dr Thomas Dutton, that, at least at an early stage, Dr Dutton was mixing with the "horsey" crowd. This is probably in the 1890's. So Hermione might be the daughter of a fellow horserace- fancying chappie.
Given Dr Dutton's obvious social demise in latter years, it is touching to know that Miss Dudley still remembered him on his death. |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 437
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 2:27 pm: |
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Hi John
Many thanks for the comments - still working on various threads of this line - will post when have any more to report:-)
Regards
chris
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John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 107
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 8:58 pm: |
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Apropos the name "Hermione",I went back to the 1886 Debretts and browsed for "Hermiones".
After a thorough going over of the Peerage listings, I discovered about six "Hermiones", five of whom seemed to have Scottish nobility links. It was interesting wading through the "Lettices" and "Ottolines", "Marcellas",
"Lavinias", "Algithas", "Gwenllians"; and even a "Dulcibella" .
Surprisingly, no "Hermiones" appear amongst the lesser-ranks of the Baronetage.
(One worrying thing though, given Donald McCormick's involvement with Naval Intelligence in World War Two, is the fact one of Britain's battleships was the H.M.S. "Hermione" ). |
Chris Phillips
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 99
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 2:55 pm: |
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Along similar lines, CLICK HERE for a selection of Hermiones, some born in the late 19th or early 20th centuries. The data are from Leo van de Pas's large "Genealogics" database, which for this period has a generous helping of the English (and Scottish) upper crust.
Chris Phillips
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Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 496
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 8:32 am: |
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Re my suggestion above that Hermione Caddy could be in some way connected to the riddle of Hermione Dudley, I was trying to see some possible connection between the Caddy family, probably via the father (John T.) and Thomas Dutton as it was stated the Hermione's father knew Dutton.
I could see no real clue as Thomas was (or so I thought) mainly in general practice and John Caddy was a naval staff surgeon and later deputy Inspector general for the Royal navy.
However when I looked more carefully at the Who's Who listing from 1914 posted by John Savage on the Dutton thread, there are certainly some naval and service connections with Thomas Dutton.
I have listed the relevant info below for both men:
Thomas Dutton
From Medical Who's Who 1914
(courtesy of John Savage)
Admiralty Surgeon and Agent
Surgeon Mercantile Marine: S.S Elysia, R.M.S. Tongartro, C.Y. Argonaut
Surgeon National Reserve
John Turner Caddy (Hermione's father)
Physican and Surgeon (Retired) from Royal Navy as Deputy Inspector General
Staff Surgeon in the Navy List
Of course this is not conclusive, and does not at this stage prove a link between the two men but I will be following this up closely and posting any result here
Chris |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 77
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:20 am: |
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Hi Chris
I too have been looking for Hermione Caddy, but so far without success. I have checked the marriage registers between 1885 - 1900 but not found her. This period covers her age between 16 -31 years old, the period I thought she would most likely marry.
I am now checking the death registers from 1935 onwards. (I have chosen that date because if Hermione Caddy/Dudley is the same person I think we can assume she was alive from 1935 onwards.)
Will post any further info when it comes to hand.
Regards,
John Savage |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 500
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:26 am: |
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Hi John
We'll find her between us I'm sure:-)
chris |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 78
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 2:17 pm: |
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Hi Chris,
Lets hope we do find her, illusive as she is!
However I have just found a death register entry for one Hermione Cade, died June quarter 1947, age 79, at Gainsboro (Lincs). Given that the age is about right this could be Hermione Caddy if she had married.
What do you think?
Regards,
John Savage |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 86
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 1:19 pm: |
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Hi All,
I don't think my last post worked properly, here is another attemtp to post re. my visit to Colindale
Having had the chance to see for myself the original newspaper articles regarding Dr. Thomas Dutton I can confirm that the articles in Sunday Chronicle and the Empire News of 17th. November 1935 are exactly as stated in Stewart Evans excellent book “Letters From Hell”.
However it must be stated that these two articles differ greatly from the purely factual articles written in the Daily Express of 12th. And 13th. Of November 1935. Again I can confirm that the article of 13th inst .is as reproduced in Stewart Evans “Letters From Hell” and also Paul Feldman’s “Jack The Ripper – The Final Chapter”. The article of 12th inst. does not seem to be so widely known and I have posted the full version on Casebook. I also checked the item in The West London Observer 15th. November 1935 and again this is exactly the same as that posted on Casebook by Chris Phillips on 28th. April 2003. I found what I believe to be a hitherto unknown article in the West London & Hammersmith Gazette of 15th. November 1935, which is quite brief and adds little to what we already know of Dr. Dutton, however I posted this on Casebook for interest sake.
The two articles in the Sunday Chronicle and the Empire News are the only ones to link Dr. Dutton with Jack The Ripper, and only the Sunday Chronicle mentions Miss Hermione Dudley although both items seem to relate to the “Dr. Stanley” story, which I am sure was already well known in 1935. Having had a chance to browse both of these newspapers my impression of them is that they were both somewhat “downmarket”, very similar to todays tabloids (although without the sex and smut of the present) and seem to have gone for stories that would interest or titillate the less discriminating Sunday morning reader.
Stewart Evans has already made a strong case to link the Sunday Chronicle article to Donald McCormick, and I am sure he is probably correct in his conclusions, however what he does not mention is that both the Sunday Chronicle and the Empire News were in fact owned by the same company, something which came to light only when I checked the publishers details in the original copies at Colindale. Both newspapers were printed and published by Allied Newspapers at their registered office, at Withy Grove, Manchester 4. (tel. Blackfriars 1234). So I have come to the conclusion that both papers had a common source for their stories, be it McCormick or anyone else, and someone, probably a sub editor just re wrote them in a slightly different form for each newspaper.
I am told that Fleet Street journalists once used to have a motto “never let the truth spoil a good story”, in my opinion that may be what has happened here, and that someone having got the bare bones of the story from the Daily Express reports earlier in the week simply added to them (or to use the argot of today “sexed up”). Having knowledge of these stories, I believe that Donald McCormick used them later in 1959 to write his book “The Identity of Jack The Ripper”, and simply used Dr. Dutton as a mouthpiece to re hash the Pedachenko story first written in “Things I know About Kings, Celebrities and Crooks”, by William Le Qeux in 1923.
Having checked various other newspapers at Colindale I was unable to find any other articles written at the time about Dr. Dutton, so the only mention we have of Miss Hermione Dudley is from the Sunday Chronicle and I think we must now treat that article as suspect unless and until further proof of her existence is found. In that respect I have also checked for Miss Dudley in the Death Registers from 1935 to 1960 and also the marriage registers for one Hermione Caddy (mentioned in a post by Chris Scott) from 1885 – 1900 (her age from 16 – 30) all without any result. It must of course be remembered that these only apply to England and Wales so I cannot claim to have disproved her existence, simply that I have not yet proved it.
In closing, I would mention that Melvyn Harris in his book “Jack The Ripper, The Bloody Truth” seems to have consulted the Sunday Chronicle article, and having taken it at its face value he quotes Miss Dudley in the belief that she existed. He cannot of course be blamed for that, but in the light of what we now know, I think we may discount his book as evidence of this mysterious lady’ existence.
Regards,
John Savage |
Peter Caddy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 3:20 am: |
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Hi all!
My name is Peter Caddy and I am direct descendant of the Caddy's you are talking about.
Thanks for the info it is very helpful to me personally. I have not had time to read all of the above as yet, but I gather someone is searching for a very allusive lady. I have not found her birth at Parkham, Devon, 1870 as yet, but Mrs. Florence Caddy wrote a book called "To Siam and Malaya in the Duke of Sutherland's Yacht, Sans Peur." 1889. It was published again in 1992 by Oxford Uiversity Press, Singapore. This latter edition includes a biographical note on the author Florence, who was Hermine's or Hermione's mother. Written by J. M. Gullick, he ends by saying that Florence lived with her unmarried daughter, Hermione in London and the West country until her death in 1923 at age 86. I have much information about the family and I am happy to exchange and contribute any information in which you are interested. Feel free to contact me directly on my email. My part in the family comes from my great, great grandfather, John Francis Caddy who was Florence and John Turner Caddy's eldest, and who came to NSW in 1881 on the steamship Sorata.
Hpoe to hear from you soon! |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 147
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 5:02 pm: |
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Hi Peter,
Thanks very much for your post, as you may have read above, we are searching for Miss Hermione Dudley. The only evidence we have for her existence is a newspaper article published in the "Sunday Chronicle" in November 1935, and there is reason to doubt its accuracy.
It may well be that Miss Dudley and Miss Caddy are the same person. Do you have any information as to were she lived in the year 1935, or do you have a date for her death? Also do the surnames of Dudley and Dutton have any family connections? Any such information may be of help.
You may also wish to read the thread "Doctor Dutton", of whom Hermione was said to be a friend.
Best Regards,
John Savage |
Peter Caddy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 12:20 am: |
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To John Savage
In our family, we were never aware of the two sisters of my great-grandfather, namely Florence and Hermione Helena, however we were aware that John Francis Caddy had two brothers, namely Arnold and Adrian. We were also aware that the latter two and their father were doctors and that the father had Royal Navy connections. Also we were aware that Mrs Florence Caddy wrote some books, although we were not aware of what they were.
Until I began searching for information about the old family, I had no idea that John Turner Caddy's middle name was actually Turner. However we did know that at some time they lived in Richmond, Surrey. This was confirmed by the 1901 census.
Two facts which I have found, which may be of aid in your quest are
1. John Turner Caddy reired from the Royal Navy in 1876, and moved his family to West London where he set up in medical practice.(see J.M.Gullick's biographical note on the author of "To Siam and Malaya in the Duke of Sutherland's Yacht, Sans Peur."
2. Hermione never married according to Gullick, who, frustratingly for me as it must now be for you, never gave the exact sources of his information. Gullick was born in 1916 and was still living in Essex in 1992 when he wrote his note on Florence (Hermione's mother.)
Hoping this will sate your appetite, which I'm certain it will not, it may lead you on in your quest for the truth.
One thing I find intriguing, which you seem to have glossed over is the Harry Potter connection and the fact that the names Hermione and Dudley are mentioned in her books.
Also, before leaving, Florence, Hermione's older sister married a chap called William Herbert Smart (Dec 1892 Richmond, Surrey Marriage, vol 2a page 714, St Catherine's Index) They had one son that I am now aware of, an Arthur Herbert J Smart, Atherstone, Dec 1894 Birth vol 6d page 463, St Catherine's Index.)
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John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 148
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 4:45 pm: |
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Hi Peter,
Thanks for all your information, it will give me a new angle to research in the coming weeks, and at least a family connection in West London is the right area.
I did not mention the Harry Potter connection (people would think me mad on these boards if I tried to link Harry Potter to JTR), because when doing a google search for "Hermione Dudley" it returns about a quarter of a million references to the Harry Potter books!
I will drop you a mail should I uncover any further information.
Best Regards,
John Savage |
Richard Fellows
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 2:25 am: |
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An Hermione Caddy was mentioned in the Nevada State Journal 17 October 1958. As I have not found a death index for her in England I wonder if this is the same person. I have not read the contents so I couldn't say what's in it. It may refer to her death which would have made her about 89. With a name like Hermione and Caddy it is a big chance that only one Caddy has ever been named Hermione so this could quite well be one and the same person. |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 292
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 8:21 pm: |
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Hi All,
Whilst trawling the internet for the illusive Miss Dudley, I have come across someone by the name of HERMENA DUDLEY. She died in the USA in 1993 age 89 and obits are to be found in:
Denver Post 2nd. July 1993 page 7c
Rocky Mountain News 1st. July 1993 page 73a.
Is there anyone in the US who could access these newspapers?
Regards
John Savage |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 600
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 9:42 pm: |
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Hi John
The Denver Post has an archived database going back to 1993. However, I can't come up with any hits for Hermena Dudley no matter how I fiddle with the search terms. There's some fine print on the site which says some articles from before 1995 might be missing.
Maybe it's me--if you don't have any success either, let me know and I'll check with the university library here and see what they've got.
Cheers,
Dave
(Message edited by oberlin on December 10, 2004) |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3648
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 8:17 am: |
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I found this on Ancestry :
Name: Hermena F. Dudley
SSN: 524-96-2621
Last Residence: 80210 Denver, Denver, Colorado, United States of America
Born: 6 Jun 1909
Died: 3 Jun 1993
State (Year) SSN issued: Colorado (1973 )
Robert
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1187
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 3:35 pm: |
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Hi all
I am finding a number of people listed on the web as having resided at "80210 Denver" which might make it a hospital or nursing home, which makes sense with Ms. Dudley's advanced age, but what is misleading is that 80210 also appears to be a Denver zipcode.
All the best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3650
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 4:52 pm: |
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Hi Chris
I am ashamed to say I know nothing of zipcodes, but this item on the LDS site mentions such a thing :
Individual Record FamilySearch™ U.S. Social Security Death Index
30 September 2000
Select record to download - Maximum: 50
Hermena DUDLEY
Birth Date: 6 Jun 1909
Death Date: 3 Jun 1993
Social Security Number: 524-96-2621
State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: Colorado
Death Residence Localities
ZIP Code: 80210
Localities: Denver, Denver, Colorado
Robert
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John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 293
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 7:40 pm: |
|
Hi David,
Thanks for posting that link, I cannot come up with anything either. I did try the Rocky Mountain News and that may have something, but does not want to accept my credit card details.
So if you could check the unversity library I would be most grateful, all I need to know is if there is any possibility in this lady having been in London in 1935, or threabouts.
Robert,
Thanks also for your post, that is the person I am looking for.
Regards
John Savage |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 605
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 8:30 pm: |
|
Hi John,
No problem, I need to head over there anyway so I'll go over either tomorrow or Monday. In the meantime I've tried the Denver Public Library, and sent them an email request and will let you know what the response is (if I don't find it on microfilm first). Unlike my local library, DPL subscribes to American Newspapers which offers full text searches on both the Denver Post and Denver Rocky Mountain News. Anybody holding a DPL library card can search their database here just by entering the number on their library card and their last name.
I'm sure other libraries offer the same service, especially in the large metropolitan areas.
Dave |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 606
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 11:18 am: |
|
No luck with the university library--they've got no microfilm for Colorado at all. Denver Public Library just replied to tell me that they'd forwarded my inquiry to their genealogy department. That's good news; but it's going to take a while to hear from them--several weeks they say.
If no one else finds this information for you in the meantime, I'll let you know what I hear. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful (especially since you've helped me in the past). If you can think of anything else I can do for you, let me know.
Dave |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1196
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 2:45 pm: |
|
Hi David and John
If this is our Miss Dudley, it would be ideal if we could find out if her will went through probate and what the disposition of her possessions was, i.e., might there have been any book or manuscript named The Chronicles of Crime, inherited from Dr. Dutton, which might have been handed onto someone, a relative or friend?
All the best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 294
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 3:21 pm: |
|
Hi David,
Many thanks for your efforts, much appreciated.
I guess we will just have to wait for the Denver Public Library to reply.
Chris
Wouldn't that be great, however first of all we need to find if she ever travelled to London around 1935.
Regards
John Savage |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 610
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 4:32 pm: |
|
John, hopefully it won't take that long. Unfortunately we're coming up on the holidays, too. . .so if any of the posters out there who have library cards can check to see if their local subscribes to a national newspaper database, that might help as well. The service would be free to use and you should be able to access it from home.
Chris,
I believe you're right about nursing homes, whitepages.com has a couple in the 80210 area. |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1197
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 6:48 pm: |
|
Hi David and John
Ancestry.com's Social Security listing for Hermena F. Dudley indicates that her Social Security Number was issued in 1973, twenty years before her death. I would infer that if she is the Miss Dudley we are interested in that possibly she was in England before 1973 and only came to the United States in the last decades of her life.
All the best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
|
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 620
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 2:16 pm: |
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Heard from D.P.L. today--no mention of England:
Rocky Mountain News
Denver, Colorado United States
Thursday 1 July 1993
HERMENA F. DUDLEY, 84, of Denver died June 3. Services were private. Burial was in Crown Hill Cemetery. Mrs. Dudley was born in North Bend, Neb. She was a homemaker. Survivors include two daughters, Doris Gutch of Sweet Home, Ore., and sons, Richard of Ulysses, Kan., and Laurence of Littleton; two sisters, Caroline Fletchall and Carol Clary of Cabool, Mo.; and one brother, Frank Gutch of Sweet Home. Contributions: Porter Hospice, 850 E. Harvard Ave., Suite 635, Denver 80210; or Volunteers of America.
Denver Post
United States
Friday, 2 July 1993
Hermena F. Dudley
Denver homemaker, 83
Hermena F. Dudley of Denver, a homemaker, died June 3. She was 83.
Services were private. Interment was in Crown Hill Cemetery.
She was born June 5, 1909, in North Bend, Neb.
She is survived by two daughters, Doris Gutch, Sweet Home, Ore., and Frances L. Romero, Denver; two sons, Richard, Ulysses, Kans., and Laurence, Littleton; a brother, Frank Cutch, Sweet Home; and two sisters, Caroline Fletchall and Carol Clary, both of Cabool, Mo.
Contributions may be made to Porter Hospice, 850 East Harvard Ave., Suite 635, Denver 80210; or to Volunteers of America, 2049 W. Hamilton Place, Sheridan 80226.
Cheers,
Dave
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John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 469
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 12:55 am: |
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Howdee Folks,
Having another look at this thread I recalled the SUNDAY CHRONICLE alleged comment by the invisible Hermione(issue of November 17th 1935):-
"My father was one of the few men he showed them ("the Chronicles of Crime")to. Owing to my interest he gave them to me".(That is Hermoine).
If Dr Thomas Dutton had a long-time friend/colleague whose daughter he gave his precious Chronicles to, this person is quite likely to have mixed in the same groups as Dr Dutton: medicine, the Royal Navy, merchant navy
or yachting and steeplechasing circles.
For this reason, I wonder if the Census for 1881
for the following households will reveal anything?
(From the Royal Blue Book (UK)1885:
DUDLEY, John Gardiner, MD,MA, 71 Belgrave Street,SW.
DUDLEY,William Louis, MD, FRCS, 149 Cromwell Road,SW.
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