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Lee Pearson
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 2:42 pm: |       |
Hi, I'm doing a Jack The Ripper project for school and I have to choose five suspects. I would like to know which suspects I should use and any other information I would need for it.}}} |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Detective Sergeant
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 61
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 6:30 pm: | |
Hi Lee
I would opt for Severin Klosowski (aka George Chapman), Aaron Davis Cohen (aka David Cohen),
Matin Kosminski, George Hutchinson, Joseph Barnett and an unknown sailor who may have worked on the cattle boats. These are in no particular order and are the indiviuals that most interest me.
For details I would consult THE JTR A-Z; SUGDEN'S "COMPLETE JACK THE RIPPER"; PALEY'S, "THE SIMPLE TRUTH"; FIDO'S "JACK THE RIPPER"; EVANS' AND GAINEY'S "ULTIMATE COMPANION" AND "BOB HINTON'S book which I can't lay my hands on right now. Also use the JTR; CASEBOOK.
If this is not for a dissertation take it a little easy on yourself and go with the more popular choices, Druitt, Maybrick, the tremendous character Tumblety, Prince Eddy and Walter Sickert.
Of course the first set of choices might bore your teacher or professor and classmates to tears if they have no real interest in the case.
The second set of choices would provide a more enjoyable discussion for those not too familiar with the subject.
Also, I would not be afraid to point out the problems with the suspects candidacies. For example, Prince Eddy's social schedule conflicts with the dates of some of the murders.
Good Luck
Gary |
Martin Fido
Detective Sergeant
Username: Fido
Post Number: 70
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 3:17 am: | |
Hi Lee!
I'd drop Martin Kosminsky, if I were you, and replace him with Druitt or Tumblety. But in any case, to know anything about Martin K, you'll have to read Paul Begg's Jack the Ripper: The Uncensored facts
All the best,
Martin F |
Robert Charles Linford
Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 404
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 4:24 am: | |
Hi Lee
I believe Bruce Paley's book is out of print at the moment, but if you can't get hold of a copy there's a condensed version by Paley in "The Mammoth Book of Jack the Ripper."
Robert |
Jack Traisson
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 4:49 am: | |
Hi Lee,
Please include an unknown local male as one of your suspects. It would be be a great opportunity to discuss Victorian culture, class and prejudice, policing, and press, along with the geographic aspects of the case.
Cheers, |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 296
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 1:15 pm: | |
Hi Lee and all
I have recently acquired the John Eddleston book "Jack the Ripper - An Encyclopaedia" which includes a very full list of suspects and his assessment of their credibility.
Hope this is of use
Suspect Rating List
from Jack the Ripper- An Encyclopaedia by John Eddleston
Eddleston uses the following rating system:
0 - no credibility
1 - very little credibility
2 - a remote credibility
3 - a reasonable possibility
4 - a very good possibility
5 - a strong possibility
Eddleston list the following suspects with the ratings as shown:
ALBERICCI, FREDERICO
Chance of being the Ripper 0
Chance of being involved 0
ALBERT EDWARD, PRINCE OF WALES (Future Edward VII)
Chance of being the Ripper 0
Chance of being involved 0
ALBERT VICTOR, DUKE OF CLARENCE
Chance of being the Ripper 0
ARNOLD, JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
ARTHUR, SIR GEORGE
Chance of being the Ripper 0
AUSTIN, DICK
Chance of being the Ripper 2
AVERY, JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
BARBARDO, DR. THOMAS
Chance of being the Ripper 0
BARNETT, JOSEPH
Chance of being the Ripper 1
BENELIUS, NIKANER
Chance of being the Ripper 0
BLANCHARD, ALFRED NAPIER
Chance of being the Ripper 0
BRODIE, WILLIAM WALLACE
Chance of being the Ripper 0
Chance of being the killer of Alice McKenzie 2
BROWN GENERAL
Chance of being the Ripper 0
BUCHAN, EDWARD
Chance of being the Ripper 1
BULL, WILLIAM
Chance of being the Ripper 0
BURROWS, EDWIN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
BURY, WILLIAM HENRY
Chance of being the Ripper 3
CARROLL, LEWIS
Chance of being the Ripper 0
CHAPMAN, DR. FREDERICK RICHARD
Chance of being the Ripper 1
CHAPMAN, GEORGE
Chance of being the Ripper 2
CHARRINGTON, FREDERICK NICHOLAS
Chance of being the Ripper 0
COHEN, AARON DAVIS
Chance of being the Ripper 4
COHN, DR.
Chance of being the Ripper 0
CORNELL, JAMES
Chance of being the Ripper 0
COW, DOUGLAS
Chance of being the Ripper 0
CREAM, DR. THOMAS NEIL
Chance of being the Ripper 0
CUTBUSH, THOMAS HAYNE
Chance of being the Ripper 0
DAVIDSON, JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
DAVIES, DR. MORGAN DAVIES
Chance of being the Ripper 2
DEEMING, FREDERICK BAILEY
Chance of being the Ripper 0
DENNY, JOSEPH
Chance of being the Ripper 0
DRUITT, MONTAGUE JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 1
EDWARDS, FRANK
Chance of being the Ripper 1
FATHER OF G.W.B.
Chance of being the Ripper 0
FITZGERALD, JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
FLEMING, JOSEPH
Chance of being the Ripper 1
FOGELMA
Chance of being the Ripper 1
FOSTER, JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 1
GIBSON, PASTOR JOHN GEORGE
Chance of being the Ripper 0
GISSING, GEORGE ROBERT
Chance of being the Ripper 0
GLADSTONE, WILLIAM EWART
Chance of being the Ripper 0
GRAINGER, WILLIAM GRANT
Chance of being the Ripper 2
GRAY, ALFRED
Chance of being the Ripper 1
HARPICK, PETER J.
Chance of being the Ripper 0
HEWITT, DR. JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
HOLT, DR. WILLIAM
Chance of being the Ripper 0
HUTCHINSON, GEORGE (UK)
Chance of being the Ripper 5
HUTCHINSON, GEORGE (US)
Chance of being the Ripper 2
IRWIN, JACK
Chance of being the Ripper 0
ISAACS, JOSEPH
Chance of being the Ripper 1
ISENSCHMID, JACOB
Chance of being the Ripper 0
JACOBS
Chance of being the Ripper 0
JAMES, HENRY
Chance of being the Ripper 0
JILL THE RIPPER
Chance of being the Ripper 1
KAMINSKY, NATHAN
Chance of being the Ripper 4
KELLY, JAMES
Chance of being the Ripper 3
KIDNEY, MICHAEL
Chance of being the Ripper 0
Chance of being the killer of Elizabeth Stride
KONOVALOV, VASSILY
Chance of being the Ripper 0
KOSMINSKI, AARON
Chance of being the Ripper 3
LANGAN, JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
LAURENCO, JOSE et al.
Chance of any of these sailors being the Ripper 0
LEARY, JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 1
LEOPOLD II, KING OF THE BELGIANS
Chance of being the Ripper 0
LEVITSKI
Chance of being the Ripper 0
Chance of being involved 0
LUDWIG, CHARLES
Chance of being the Ripper 0
MADURO, ALONZO
Chance of being the Ripper 2
MARY OF BREMEN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
MASON, ARTHUR HENRY
Chance of being the Ripper 0
MASON, THOMAS
Chance of being the Ripper 0
MASONIC CONSPIRACY
Chance of any of the protagonists being the Ripper 0
Chance of any of them being involved 0
(This includes Gull, Netley, Walter Sickert and Randolph Churchill)
MATTHEWS, OLIVER
Chance of being the Ripper 0
MAYBRICK, JAMES
Chance of being the Ripper 1
MCCARTHY, JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 2
MCKENNA, EDWARD
Chance of being the Ripper 0
MILES, FRANK
Chance of being the Ripper 0
MONRO, JAMES
Chance of being the Ripper 0
MORFORD
Chance of being the Ripper 2
MURPHY, JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
OSTROG, MICHAEL
Chance of being the Ripper 2
PANCHENKO, DR. DIMITRI
Chance of being the Ripper 0
PARENT, ALFRED
Chance of being the Ripper 0
PEDACHENKO, DR. ALEXANDER
Chance of being the Ripper 0
PIGOTT, WILLIAM HENRY
Chance of being the Ripper 1
PIZER, JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
POLISH JEW (GENERIC)
Chance of being the Ripper 2
PRICHA, ANTONI
Chance of being the Ripper 0
PUCKRIDGE, OSWALD
Chance of being the Ripper 2
QUINN, EDWARD
Chance of being the Ripper 0
ROBINSON, PIERCE JOHN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
SADLER, JAMES THOMAS
Chance of being the Ripper 0
Chance of being the killer of Frances Coles 3
SANDERS, DR. JON WILLIAM
Chance of being the Ripper 3
SANDER, JOHN WILLIAM SMITH
Chance of being the Ripper 0
SICKERT'S VETERINARY STUDENT
Chance of being the Ripper 0
SIMM, CLARENCE
Chance of being the Ripper 2
SMITH, G. WENTWORTH BELL
Chance of being the Ripper 1
SOLOMON, LOUIS
Chance of being the Ripper 1
STANLEY, DR.
Chance of being the Ripper 0
STEPHEN, JAMES KENNETH
Chance of being the Ripper 0
STEPHENSON, ROBERT DONSTON
Chance of being the Ripper 1
SWINBURNE, ALGERNON CHARLES
Chance of being the Ripper 0
SZEMEREDY, ALOIS
Chance of being the Ripper 1
TCHKERSOFF, OLGA
Chance of being the Ripper 0
THICK, SGT. WILLIAM
Chance of being the Ripper 0
THOMAS, DR. WILLIAM EVAN
Chance of being the Ripper 2
THOMPSON, FRANCIS JOSEPH
Chance of being the Ripper 2
TUMBLETY, FRANCIS
Chance of being the Ripper 2
UNKNOWN MALE
Chance of being the Ripper 5
VAN BURST, NICHOLAI
Chance of being the Ripper 0
WADDELL, WILLIAM
Chance of being the Ripper 0
WASSILI, NICHOLAI
Chance of being the Ripper 1
WESTCOTT, DR. WILLIAM WYNN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
WHIET EYED MAN
Chance of being the Ripper 0
WINBERG, MISS
Chance of being the Ripper 0
WIRTOFSKY
Chance of being the Ripper 1
|
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Detective Sergeant
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 69
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 1:43 pm: | |
Hi. Chris Scott
The ratings list William Grant Grainger as a possible suspect. I have long been curious about his candidacy as the Ripper, I even considered adding him to the suspects board. We talked briefly in the chatroom and I mentioned that he was positively identified by Joseph Lawende in 1895 (see also the A-Z) as the man he had seen with Eddowes shortly before she was murdered.
You indicated he may have been in Jail during the murders. I was wondering if you, or anyone else knew anything more about him.
Also, while I have your attention Edwin Woodhall called MJK "Mary J. Kelly or Mary J. Taylor" in his book. Have you any knowledge of this name in any of the records.
Best Regards
GARY
P.S. I did a mini-review of Woodhall's book on the Non-Fiction book thread. This may interest some people as the book is very rare.
|
R.J. Palmer
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rjpalmer
Post Number: 98
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 2:29 pm: | |
Gary--Unless I'm mistaken, and I don't think I am, it isn't definitely known that Lawende was the witness that identified Grainger. Philip Sugden only speculates that this is the case; Lawende attempted to identify Sadler, but couldn't.
No offense to Mr. Eddleston, but some of his opinions seem rather arbitrary. Heck, some of the above "suspects" haven't even received enough research to warrant a rating. Others are rather dubious. The American George Hutchinson quite possibly never existed but gets more consideration than M.J. Druitt, who several senior officials seemed to favor. Cutbush a 0? Francis Thompson a 2? Hmm., one man's thinking often disagrees with another's. Mr. Fishman surprised me by suggesting that the Royal Conspiracy was credible.
The more I think about, the more I tend to agree with David Radka. One either proves their case or one doesn't. Cheers. |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Detective Sergeant
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 71
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 2:59 pm: | |
Hi R.J.
It has crossed my mind that Lawende may have finally gotten fed up and identified someone just to get the police off his back. He did say he would not be able to identify the man he saw .Either he meant what he said about not being able to I.D. the man or he may have been fearful for his safety. I believe this would apply more to some other witnesss like Packer, however.
The Royal Conspiracy was credible...? Does this mean Joseph Gorman Sickert was, or is (if he is still alive)the heir to the British throne as he claimed at one point.
I believe the possibility that a suspect who never existed may have a stronger claim to being JTR than some of the candidates I have seen proposed.
All The Best.
Gary |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 297
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 6:07 pm: | |
Hi gary
I think you must be referring to the article I found in a Mexican paper called the Siglo XIX (The 19th Century) which stated that Grainger was serving a sentence for an attack in Whitechapel.
The article reads:
London, May 8.
A newspaper in this city has published a long article which claims it is based on information supplied by the police, suggesting that an ex-soldier, named Grainger, a native of Cork, is Jack the Ripper. Grainger is serving a ten year sentence in prison for the murder of a woman in the Whitechapel district last May.
I don't remember reading anywhere a statment that he was in prison at the time of the murders
Hope this helps
Regards
Chris |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Detective Sergeant
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 74
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 6:21 pm: | |
Hi Chris
Many thanks for the information; do you know the date the prison term was handed down.
Also does Mary J "Taylor" ring a bell, if not, do you think it is worth checking the census records.
Thanks again
Gary |
Martin Fido
Detective Sergeant
Username: Fido
Post Number: 77
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 6:26 pm: | |
I don't think it's ever been proved that Lawende was the witness identifying Grainger: it is seen as probable because the newspaper which makes reference to Swanson's opinion also says that the police had one reliable eye-witness who had seen the Ripper, and most people asume that, in Swanson and Anderson's eyes, this witness was probably Lawende. (Paul Begg and Ivor Edwards demur, however, and think it was probably Schwartz).
To no one's surprise, I am most impressed by Eddleston's strong rating of Cohen and Kaminsky.
But I wonder why he gives the highest rating to Hutchinson, who would seem to have pushed himself into the investigation quite unnecessarily, had he been the Ripper, by coming forward with evidence after the inquest. Of course, as last known person to see MJK he deserved consideration. But...
All the best,
Martin F |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 298
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 6:36 pm: | |
Hi Gary
Well the article I referred to was published on 9 May 1895 and it says the murder took place "last May" so I asume that must be May 1894.
I would also be interested to know under what circumstances he only got a 10 year sentence on a charge of murder.
If I find out anything more I will post it
Regards
Chris
Martin
This is what Eddleston has to say about Hutchinson and his candidature:
".... Sonme writers have argued that his testimony may have been nothing more than publicity seeking, but an equally strong argument is that he came forward because he had to after he learned that he had been seen standing opposite Miller's Court by Sarah Lewis.
Hutchinson lived close to the epicentre of the murders, was the right age and height and, given what little we know of his physical description, may have matched the composite picture of Jack the Ripper. Further investigation is needed, but Hutchinson is a very strong candidate."
Regards
C
|
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Detective Sergeant
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 75
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 6:57 pm: | |
Hi Martin
I won't rule out Hutchinson either but I don't believe he was JTR. I do feel he insinuated himself into the case, however because he found out he had been spotted after the fact.
I can see why you are pleased at how Kaminsky and Cohen came out in the ratings.  But do you believe that it should be Cohen/Kaminsky since they could be one and the same man? That ran through my mind when I listed Cohen at the top of my list on who deserves to be focused on in the student project.
All the Best
Gary |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Detective Sergeant
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 76
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 7:05 pm: | |
Hi. Martin and Chris
Chris you were writing my exact point on why Hutchinson came out of the closet so to speak, but you beat me to it.
As for Grainger, please post anything further you find out about him. I plan on doing some digging myself.
Best Regards
Gary |
Martin Fido
Detective Sergeant
Username: Fido
Post Number: 79
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 7:34 am: | |
Hi Gary!
Yes I do think Kaminsky and Cohen should be seen as possibly one man. Given the merely coincidental status of Kaminsky as a suspect - (i.e. age and race and parish of residence coincide with Cohen's, residence coincides with the heart of the Ripper territory, occupation coincides with suspect Leather Apron, illness coincides with a possible motivation for attacks on prostitutes, timing of illness coincides with attack on woman in neighbourhood of Buck's Row) - unchallenged by conclusive counter-information on (say) his death, I'd probably describe this suspect as "Cohen/(Kaminsky?)"
Thanks for the cheers smiley. I tried to make it come up on my posting, but it proved unwilling to come out of its box, and I was pressed for time so didn't wait for it.
All the best,
Martin F |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Detective Sergeant
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 83
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 1:23 pm: | |
Hi Martin
Thanks anyway!
As for your computer, I'm fond of saying -give me a hammer and enough room to swing it and I can fix anything.
Best
Gary |
R.J. Palmer
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rjpalmer
Post Number: 99
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 11:58 pm: | |
Hi. I understand the historical argument for why Lawende is named as the witness that identified Grainger; it's just that I can't imagine a situation where the police would use a witness that had already identified someone else, let alone one that had proven hostile by refusing to testify. It goes without saying that there would be no legal use for such an identification. Cheers. |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Detective Sergeant
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 86
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 4:04 am: | |
Hi R.J.
You're talking about the witness who identified Kosminski if I read you correctly. You are in agreeent with Sugden who states that "If it can be proved that Lawende did identify Grainger in 1895 his previous identification of Kosminski will be copletely discredited" (Revised pg. 412) However, this argument would be invalidated if Schwartz or some unknown witness identified Kosminski or if the Kosminski identification was anything other than conclusive.
Nevertheless, you raise a good point and all identifications would have been cursory despite what Anderson would have us believe.
Cheers
Gary
|
Martin Fido
Detective Sergeant
Username: Fido
Post Number: 82
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 7:43 am: | |
I agree, RJP, and have been aware of this since the Grainger case and its press coverage was first brought to my attention. It's the most mysterious thing about the Grainger info, and I've always regretted that pressure of other work and my moving away from London prevented my search for Lawende relatives and /or descendants from getting further than 1915 in the death registers, as any family traditions carried down about "grat-grandfather's seeing Jack the Ripper" might be most helpful. (NB, if anyone takes up the search, the possibility that JL or his family gentilized the name to Lavender should always be considered).
All the best,
Martin F |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 299
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 10:22 am: | |
There is only one family in the 1891 data under the name of Lawende who were living at the time of the census at 3 Tenter Street South. The household was as follows:
Head:
Leopold Lawende aged 42
Cigarette maker
Born in Poland
Wife:
Fanny Lawende aged 38
Born in London
Children:
Moss aged 17, Watchmaker
Leah aged 16, Cigarette Maker
Esther aged 14
Julius aged 15
Harry aged 15
David aged 9
Rose aged 8
Annie aged 5
Caroline aged 10.5 (this is the age given in the transcription but I cannot see this reading)
All children are registered as born in London.
What is obviously the same family is listed in the 1901 census with the following differences:
- the address is now 7 Great Alie Street
- the head of household is now the widowed Fanny, so Leopold must have died
- the family name is spelt Lavende not Lawende
The 1901 household is as follows:
Head:
Fanny Lavende aged 48 widowed
Born in Whitechapel
Children:
Moss aged 26
Lily aged 24
Esther aged 22
Julius aged 21
Harry aged 19
David aged 17
All children are listed as Cigarette Makers and born in Whitechapel
 |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 300
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 3:23 pm: | |
While we are talking about these two important witnesses, I also have some census information on Schwartz as follows:
1881: there is no Israel Schwartz listed in this census
1891: there is one Israel Schwartz listed as follows:
Address:
22 Samuel Street
Head:
Israel Schwartz aged 27
Tailor's Presser
Born in Poland
Wife:
Eva Schwartz aged 27
Born in Poland
Children:
Dinah aged 6 born in Poland
Louis aged 4 months born in St George's East
The fact that the 6 year old daughter was born in Poland suggests that the couple did not come to England until 1885 at the earliest
In the 1901 census again there is only one Israel Schwartz and although this individual has a Whitechapel address, differences in the data make it clear this is certainly not the same person detailed above.
1901 Census:
Address:
8 Little Alie Street
Household:
Head:
Israel Schwartz aged 35
Cigarette Maker
Russian Subject
Wife:
Millie Schwartz aged 35
Russian Subject
Children:
Samuel aged 6, Russian Subject
I am assuming- and it is only assumption - that as their 6 year old son is listed as a Russian subject, that this probably means he was born in Russia in which case the couple did not come to England until 1895 at the earliest. But, apart from this, all the other variances in detail make it clear that we are looking at two different individuals viz:
- the 1891 IS is Polish, the 1901 is Russian
- the ages do not match allowing for a a 10 year gap
- the spouse's name is different
- none of the childrens' names match.
From this it is apparent that the 1891 Scwartz is almost certainly the witness we have been discussing in which case we can deduce that he was 24 at the time of the murders and therefore born circa 1864.
What happened to the 1891 Scwartz and why he does not appear in the 1901 census I have yet to deduce.
regards
Chris S |
John V. Omlor
Detective Sergeant
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 110
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 3:29 pm: | |
Geez,
I wonder how Lee's school project went, after all of this.
--John |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 301
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 3:36 pm: | |
Just a quick follow up to the previous post about Schwartz.
The A-Z gives his address as 22 Ellen Street and I am sure I have read somewhere this may have been Helen Street.
I appreciate the house number might be coincidence and the census was two and a half years after the murders but the 1891 data definitely gives his address as 22 Samuel Street (see sheet header below)
Samuel Street no longer exists so I am trying to track down exactly where it was in 1891.
 |
Martin Fido
Detective Sergeant
Username: Fido
Post Number: 85
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 5:18 pm: | |
Re Ellen Street: Helen Street is the name given in Swanson's report. But we have been unable to find it on contemporary maps: Ellen Street lies exactly in the direction Schwartz was running, therefore the speculation that Swanson misheard or received an inaccurate name.
Re Lawende - didn't our man come from Dalston, not Whitechapel or Spitalfields?
Re Lee's project - shouldn't he - (?she: I've known Lees of both genders) - go for a doctorate rater than High School graduation?
All the best,
Martin F |
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 103
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 5:25 pm: | |
Hi Chris
Samual Street was the next street east (and running parallel) with Grove Street. If you have a copy of the 1894 ordnance survey map find Berner Street and then just east is Christian Street and the road next to that is Grove Street. The top part of the next street is Umberoton Street and Samual Street is at the southern end of that street as a continuation.
I think Ellen Street is correct and not Helen Street as Ellen Street was at the bottom of end of Berner Street and would seem the most likely.
All the best
Rob |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 302
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 5:35 pm: | |
Thanks very much for that Rob and Martin
Very helpful
Chris |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Detective Sergeant
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 89
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 10:27 pm: | |
Hi Chris Scott
Any idea of the whereabouts of Grainger in the records. He WAS arrested for murder in the East End in 1895.
I'd be curious about any information you may have before I decide whether to put him up on the suspect boards.
As you stated he was sentenced to just ten years for murder. I find this hard to understand and I have found out he only served seven years of his sentence before he was released. Amazing.
Best Regards
Gary |
Saddam
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 5:21 pm: | |
Lee,
The case is contaminated by the most evil plots of the news media and FBI. It exists solely for the purposes of bureaucrtatic power and money. I am the only one who knows what must be done to solve it.
Saddam
|
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Detective Sergeant
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 94
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 1:59 pm: | |
Saddam
No offense but, have you had a drink or two today during tea break?
Best Gary |
Robert Charles Linford
Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 432
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 4:50 am: | |
Hi Chris
What about the Joseph Lavender of the 1901 census, age 54, commercial traveller, Islington? Is he a possible for Lawende?
Robert |
|
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