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Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 273
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 5:23 pm: |       |
Hi all
I found this lengthy article in an 1897 paper and though it might be of interest as it describes various aspects of the case - the identification of Liz Stride, the Howard testimony and, at greatest length, a retelling of the Robert Lees visions.
Hope it's of interest
Chris S
Brooklyn Eagle 28 December 1897
CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE
An Interesting Story of the Jack the Ripper Murder
A chat about circumstantial evidence in murder cases, a propos of the Luetgert case, brings to mind a remarkable instance of the fallibility of human testimony, as regards the identification of a human body, of more recent date than any instance quoted yesterday. It is part of the history of that remarkable series of atrocious murders committed in the Whitechapel district of London, in the autumn of 1888, by a man who is known indefinitely in criminal annals as Jack the Ripper. His fourth victim was a widow name Mary Ann Chapman (sic). Her mutilated body was found at daylight in the yard of a house in Hanbury street. On the shutter of the adjoining dwelling there was found scribbled with chalk the following message from the mysterious assassin: "I have murdered four, and will murder sixteen more before I surrender myself to the police." Sir Charles Warren, who was in charge of the Scotland Yard detective force. caused this prohecy to be erased, and was subsequently severaly criticized for having done so without securing a photographic reproduction of the murderer's handwriting. This murder was committed on September 8. On the following October 1, between the hours of 1 and 2 o'clock in the morning Jack the Ripper had left behind him the mutilated bodies of two more of Whitechapel's unfortunate women. Both crimes were absolutely appalling in the boldness of their execution. One was committed in the yard of a club house while its members were indulging in a weekly discussion. The victim in this case was recognized by her sister, the wife of a tailor, as one Eliza Watts. The tailor's wife was positive in her identification and called special attention to the mark of an adder's bite on one of the murdered woman's legs. She stated that at the very hour of the murder she had a presentiment that something was wrong. At 12:40 o'clock in the morning, she claimed, both she and her husband felt something fall on the bed they occupied. Then she felt three kisses upon her face. She immediately became fearful that evil had befallen her sister, and immediately went to the morgue, where her worst fears were realized, and she found her sister's dead body. The identification was made absolutely without reservation, and was supported by the testimony of others. Yet at the final session of the coroner's inquest Eliza Watts walked into the hearing and openly denounced her sister for having maligned her character and for having dared to suggest that she was dead. The corpse was subsequently identified as that of a notorious woman known as Elizabeth Stride.
This instance of the fallibility of human identification sends our thoughts drifting away from the Luetgert case to the historically atrocious crimes of Jack the Ripper. Only the other day a newspaper was published suggesting that a criminal who had been arrested for some fiendish murder in Paris was possibly the mysterious assassin ofthe Whitechapel district. Among men well informed in criminal affairs it was supposed that the identity of the incarnate fiend was settled some time ago. A well known London physician, Dr. Howard, gave to the world a guarded statement in which he declared by seeming authority that the mysterious murderer was a demented physician afflicted with wildly uncontrollable erotic mania, and that he had been confined in a private asylum for the insane. At the time of this declaration and commenting upon it, the St. Louis Globe Democrat stated openly that it unsealed the lips of a Chicago man who gave a remarkable account of the manner in which the identity of the Whitechapel muederer was fixed beyond the shadow of a doubt. The Dr. Howard referred to was one of a dozen London physicians who sat as a commission in lunacy upon their brother physician, for at last it was definitely proved that thedread Jack the Ripper was a physician in high standing and enjoying the patronage of the best society in the West End of London. When it was proven that he was the murderer and his identity fully established, all persons having knowledge of thefacts were sworn to secrecy. Up to the time of Dr. Howard's disclosure this oath had been rigidly adhered to. Robert James Lees, who tracked downthe Ripper, developed in early life extraordinary clairvoyant powers. He was the recognized leader of the Christian Spiritualists of Great Britain. While London was shuddering over the third murder Mr. Lees became convinced one day that another tragedy was about to be enacted. He seemed to see a man and women enter a narrow court. The clock showed the time to be 40 minutes past 12. The man was drunk. He wore a dark suit and acrried a light overcoat. In a dark corner the court he cut the woman's throat and mutilated her lower limbs with a long knife. Then he wiped his knife on the woman's dress, buttoned up his light overcoat to conceal bloodstains on his shirt and calmly walked away. Mr.Lees told his vision to a Scotland Yard sergeant, who thought he was a lunatic, but noted the main points of his story. The next night a woman was found murdered and mutilated at the hour and place seen by Mr. Lees. A man carrying a light overcoat had been seen with the woman.
One day while riding with his wife in an omnibus Mr. Lees felt a renewal of the strange sensations which preceded his former clairvoyant condition. The omnibus stopped and a man wearing a light overcoat got in. His face was that of the murderer seen by Mr. Les in his vision. To his wife he said: "This is Jack the Ripper." The man alighted in Oxford street. Mrs. Lees continued her journey, but her husband followed the man down Park lane. He must have feared danger, for he jumped into a cab and was driven rapidly away. That night Mr. Lees received premonitions that another murder was about to be committed. The face of the murdered woman was clearly defined and one ear was severed, while the other hung by a shred. When he recovered from his trance Mr. Lees hastened to Scotland Yard and told his story to the head inspector. Trembling and pale that officer showed him a postal card bearing the marks of two bloody fingers and reading as follows: "Tomorrow night I shall again take my revenge, claiming my ninth victim. To prove that I am really Jack the Ripper I will cut off the ears of this ninth victim."
By dark the next day 3,000 constables in plain clothes and 1,500 detectives disguised as workingmen were patrolling the courts and alleys of Whitechapel, but Jack the Ripper penetrated the cordon, slew and mutilated his victim, as foretold by Mr. Lees, and escaped.
Soon afterward Mr. Lees and two Americans were driving one day when Mr. Lees suddenly exclaimed: "The Ripper has committed another murder." It was then eleven minutes to 8. Ten minutes after 8 the body of another victim of the Ripper was found in the Whitechapel district. Mr. Lees and his companions hurried to Scotland Yard. A few minutes later a telegram arrived detailing a fresh murder. With the inspectors and two officers, Mr. Lees and his friends hastened to the scene of the tragedy. Mr. Lees felt a subtle power connecting himself with the fleeing Ripper. All that night the clairvoyant traversed swiftly the streets of London. The inspector and his aids followed close behind. At 4 o'clock in the morning Mr. Lees stopped before a West End mansion, and, pointing to a light in an upper chamber, exclaimed: "There is the murderer." The inspector hesitated to enter, and asked Mr. Lees to describe the interior of the hall. He did so. A 7 o'clock they entered and found the hall as described. The doctor was dumbfounded. He said he had had intervals when all that happened was a blank to him, and expressed horrors at the murders. After the examination referred to above the Ripper was removed to a private asylum, and by agreement he was reported dead. At the asylum the Ripper, who is now a ferocious maniac, is simply known as Thomas Mason, or No. 124. Is all thattrue? I don't know. Things have happened equally as strange. The story is vouched for on high authority.
|
Martin Fido
Sergeant
Username: Fido
Post Number: 45
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 7:51 am: | |
Evidently the Eagle went to its own cuttings library, which hadn't updated everything.
For those who are interested, Adolf Luetgert was the Chicago butcher who put his wife through the sausage machine... perhaps when she had objected to his spending all his time with other true crime enthusiasts discussing Jack the Ripper... or perhaps not...
All the best,
Martin F
 |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 78
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 9:32 pm: | |
Hello Martin and Chris,
If one looks at the Brooklyn Eagle website for
November 14, 1897, there is an article about
Murder as a Fine Art, which compares De Quincy's
examples of the Ratcliffe Highway murderer
(John Williams) and the McKean brothers, with more
recent killers. The Ripper is one but so is Thorn
and Nack, Luetgert, and Theodore Durrant.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 64
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 7:00 am: | |
hi all,
thanks for emailing me Jeff.
this is very interesting, why has nobody noticed it before!
has this archieve only just gone online?
jp |
Martin Fido
Sergeant
Username: Fido
Post Number: 49
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 7:53 am: | |
Who on earth were Thom and Nack? They sound like Mutt and Jeff. Surely not John Nichols Tom, alias Sir Willam Courtenay, the mad Messiah who fought the Battle of Bossenden Wood?
All the best,
Martin F |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 79
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 1:18 am: | |
Hi Martin,
Not "Thom" or "Tom" for John Nichols Tom aka
Sir William Courtney, the madman whose two murders
in the course of causing that Bossenden Wood
affray. I am referring to Martin Thorn and Amelia
Nack who are the late 19th Century prototypes of
Judd Gray and Ruth Snyder. They murdered Willie
Guldensuppe (Thorn's rival) in 1897 in my native
Queens. Later to save herself Nack turned into
a prosecution witness against Thorn. As a result
she spent a relatively short term in prison. Thorn ended up electrocuted in 1898.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Martin Fido
Detective Sergeant
Username: Fido
Post Number: 52
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 7:09 am: | |
Fascinating. Many thanks, Jeff.
All the best,
Martin F |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 80
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 1:44 pm: | |
Hi Martin,
I notice that I wrote an incomplete sentence regarding John Nicols Tom, and made a mistake about Mrs. Nack.
The lady's first name was not Amelia, but Augusta.
The madman's two murders enabled Madame Tussaud's
Wax Museum to place his statue in the Chamber of
Horrors. There is a famous drawing by "Punch"
cartoonist Richard Doyle (uncle of Sir Arthur
Conan Doyle) which gave the label "Chamber of
Horrors" to that portion of the exhibit. In it
are a set of figures of murderers, or attempted
murderers, including Daniel Good, Edward Oxford,
James B. Rush, James Greenacre, and John Nichols
Tom. For years I did not realize who Tom is, as
he was not listed in Haydn's Dictionary of Dates
under "Trials" or "Executions". Part of the
problem is the cartoon made the name look like
part of a larger name ("Thompson" or "Tompkins"...
well you can see). Then I found Tom listed as
an insurrectionist in the original Dictionary of
National Biography (there was also a mention of
him in Frederic Morton's THE ROTHSCHILDS as discussing the battle at Bossenden because Tom
also used as an alias, "Count Moses Rothschild").
Back in 1996 I discovered there was a monograph
written about Tom's career, THE BATTLE IN BOSSENDEN WOOD, THE STRANGE STORY OF SIR WILLIAM
COURTENAY, by P.G.Rogers (London: Oxford University Press, Reader's Union, 1962). I bought
the copy I found (so far the only one I ever saw).
Tom was a strange one, definitely a madman who
should never have been released from an asylum.
There is also a nice essay on him in Justice Sir
Edward Abbott Parry's VAGABOND'S ALL (New York:
Charles Scribners' Sons, 1926), Ch. IX: "John Nichols Tom, The Zealot", p. 184 - 207.
But enough about "Mad Tom". Back to Jack....
Hope you are enjoying your vacation.
Jeff |
Martin Fido
Detective Sergeant
Username: Fido
Post Number: 53
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 7:55 am: | |
And at last I see I was misreading because of the font's design: you referred to ThoRN not ThoM.
Rogers' book on Bossenden Wood used to be available in the public libraries at both Penzance and Canterbury, so anyone in UK should find it pretty easily through inter-library loan. Others should try Bookfinder.com.
There's quite a pleasant walk through the woods to the battle site and across to the marshes where Tom and his dupes first took cover. Unfortunately one can't go into or across the farm and its land where he camped and took breakfast on the battle day.
(For those who know nothing about this guy, he was a mad Cornish wine dealer who turned up in Canterbury, dressed very eccentrically, but declaring himself to be first Count Moses Rostopchein Rothschild, and then Sir William Courtenay, heir to the "Earldom of Devon" and a huge fortune and estates which he was supposedly recovering by a lawsuit. He was put up to stand unsuccessfully for the candidateless Tories in the reformed parliamentary General Election of 1832, and thereafter was committed to an asylum for giving ludicrous false evidence on behalf of smugglers caught red-handed by the revenue. In 1838 his family secured his release into their custody, but Tom refused to go back to Cornwall, and was staked out temporarily by a gullible local who believed he was going to inherit the fortune and hoped "Sir William" would marry his spinster sister. When this meal ticket showed signs of drying up, Tom lost it completely: declared himself to be the new Messiah and rambled around the fields between Canterbury and Faversham with a loaf on a pole as his banner, declaring that he was going to feed the poor. He collected (and forced with pistol and cutlass threats) about 16 peasants to march with him; shot a police officer who tried to arrest him, and then when the militia marched out to seize him fought a short little battle against them (his poor peasants being mostly armed with pitchforks). He and seven peasants were killed in the course of it, and so were a militiaman and a constable. Such of his "army" as survived were transported. And Tom and those of his men who died are buried in unmarked graves at unknown spots in a rather beautiful village churchyard in Kent.)
All the best,
Martin F
|
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 466
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 11:54 am: | |
re the 1897 account of Lees' involvement in the Ripper case, I have come across a longer and earlier account which might be of interest. It is from the Williamsport Sunday Grit dated 12 May 1895. Bear with me as this is a long article so I will post in four parts.
Chris
Part 1
 |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 467
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 11:56 am: | |
Part 2
 |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 468
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 11:57 am: | |
Part 3
 |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 469
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 11:58 am: | |
Part 4 - the final part
 |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 470
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 12:04 pm: | |
Interesting that in the above account the two Americans who were dining with Lees when he "saw" one of the murders are named, whereas in the 1897 account it just says "two Americans."
I'll see what I can find out about Roland Shaw and Fred Beckwith, the named Americans
Regards
Chris |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 93
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 2:32 pm: | |
}hi chris,
i think }roland shaw and mr fred beckwith are mentioned in the chicago article.
talking about my favourite non related (to me i mean) victorian, stephen butt has completed redesigned and updated his websitehttp://www.rjlees.co.uk
(sorry if i put that twice i will try and work out if i have later!)
chris
what is the williamssport paper,
where do you keep getting these marvallous articles from?
there is alink to a copy of the chicago article on sb's website, i'm sure he won't mind me mentioning it!
jennifer} |
thomas schachner
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 12:12 pm: | |
hi all,
the original "unedited" article was in the sunday times herald, chicago on the 28th april 1895.
this can be taken as the roots of the royal conspiracy.
later, stephen knight just changed the name thomas mason into william gull.
greetings
thomas. |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 94
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 2:48 pm: | |
also can anyone confirm if thomads mason has been checked to see if such a person ever did exist (i mean for real not in the aslyum when its supposed to be someone else!)
jp |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 95
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 2:50 pm: | |
hello chris,
further more i am quite suprised all these related articles keep appearing, that's a couple you have found if i am correct?
hurrahhhhh
jennifer |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 473
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 3:31 pm: | |
Hi jennifer
First the Williamsport Sunday Grit was a Pennsylvania paper. As to where I find research material - basically anywhere I can!!! Local library, internet, archives etc etc.
There is still stuff out there - its just a case of being persistent.
I am transcribing the article above for inclusion in the Press Reports section and nticed something right at the beginning of the article. If you compare the Williamsport article above (12 May 1895) with the Chicago article (28 April 1895) then the relationship between the two is complex and interesting. I have found elsewhere versions of the Dr. Howard story, which is not mentioned in the Williamsport account. The Chicago article blends together the Howard and the Lees story but whole sections of the Chicago and the Williamsport versions are the same word for word. However, there are interesting differences in emphasis and omissions.
As an example compare the accounts of Lees "vision" of the first murder and the description of the killer. The Chicago articale says:
At 12.30. on the following night a woman entered the public house facing onto the court in question. She was quite under the influence of liquor, and the bar keeper refused to serve her. She left the place swearing and using vile language. She was seen by another witness to enter the court again at 12.30. in company with a man dressed in a dark suit and carrying a light overcoat upon his arm. Witness thought the man was an American because he wore a soft felt hat, and added that 'he looked like a gentleman'
The Williamsport account deals with this sections as follows:
At 12:30 o'clock the following night a woman entered a public house facing the court in question. She was quite under the influence of liquor and the barkeeper refused to serve her. She left the place, and was seen by another witness, to enter the court again at 12:30 o'clock in company with a man dressed in a dark suit and carrying a light overcoat upon his arm.
It is obvious from the two accounts and the identical wording of many parts of the accounts that they had a common source. The question is when was that account written.
The comment that intrigued me is in the first paragraph of the Williamsport version:
The mystery of London's Jack the Ripper, whose atrocious murders two years ago startled the world, has been solved.
This is effectively saying that the account was written two years after the murders, i.e. in 1890 but both the published versions found so far did not appear until five years after that.
This may suggest that there is an original version written and, presumably, published, in 1890 that is still to be found.
Hope that's of interest
Regards
Chris
|
thomas schachner
Police Constable
Username: Thomas
Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 7:14 pm: | |
hi all,
as far as i remember the whole story was just made up by the whitechapel club in chicago and sold to a newspaper.
so i don't think there is any further original version.
here are some pictures of the whitechapel club and its members.
http://members.tripod.com/chipress/chipress/oldfoto.htm
greetings
thomas. |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 128
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 10:03 pm: | |
Hi Chris,
Jennifer Pegg and I have discussed the original
version of the article from the Chicago newspaper.
It included two other names besides Beckwith and
Mr. Shaw. One was Dr. Howard, but the other was
the man who was supposed to have had the conversation about Lees' solution of the case with
Dr. Howard - Mr. William Greer Harrison of San
Francisco. Harrison was a prominent San Franciscan figure (the President of the Olympic
Club, one of the backers of the first modern
heavyweight champion, "Gentleman Jim" Corbett, and
a would-be poet and playwrite - one of his plays
starred James O'Neill, father of Eugene). I was
unable to locate Beckwith or Shaw. Good luck.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 96
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 12:33 pm: | |
hi
thanks everyone.
i have one question, knowing how the chicago article claims 17 or so ripper victims, if we suppose it is the original source (as nothing to the contrary has yet been found) were there murders in 1893 that have/could be attributed to JTR for the purposes of making a good story if mothing else?
jenifer
ps if lees was with these two americans for real they were probably tourists as he was known to have given guided tours of london at one point |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 97
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 12:36 pm: | |
one other thing i just thought has any journalist out their name to any of these? |
Ian M. Keogh
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 12:12 pm: | |
I just found out last night that my great-great grandfather is none other than Robert J. Lees. I have only scratched the surface into his history as a visionary, and I am glad his name and memory still lives on.
Ian M. Keogh |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3082
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 7:13 am: | |
Is this our man?
"TIMES" feb 15th 1895
Robert |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1084
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 7:25 am: | |
Robert,
that's him,
I hadn't heard of that before,
At last an explanation as to why the league closed that doesn't involve Queen Vicoria, Robert i owe you one!
Jenni
(Message edited by jdpegg on September 23, 2004)
"Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1086
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 8:38 am: | |
The league was set up to help the poor and needy. They did a lot more than hold concerts to be fair to them.
There is a piece about the league on Stephen Butt's website
http://rjlees.co.uk
see under peoples league
Cheers
Jenni
"Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3084
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 2:11 pm: | |
Jenni, thanks for that. Yes, a very interesting man.
Robert |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1092
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 3:20 pm: | |
Robert,
i think so!
Good find!
Jenni
"Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr |
|
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