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Jono B
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:59 pm: |       |
Hey everyone,
Some of you may remember me from my earlier post asking for assistance regarding the various theories regarding Jack the Ripper. I have decided to stray away from my previous question of 'How do the various theories about the indetity of JTR reflect the social contect of their time' and instead contextualize the Ripper murders, and thus suggest why they created such a furore.
In such an investigation I would look at:
- Class structure of Victorian England
- The expanding media
- Victorian literature (ie. Dickens etc.)
- The extension of democracy (roots of the sufragette movement etc.)
Basically to avoid subjectivity as much as possible, I want to avoid the Jack the Ripper theories, and instead focus on the Victorian context and therefore why the murders created such a stir.
The major essay has to be 2000 words. Therefore I need a fair anount of information regarding the Victorian context of JTR. I know alot of JTR books dedicate the first chapter to contextualising the Ripper murders, but I was wondering if any of you could suggest a book which excels in this area?
Also, I would be interested to see if you think my topic of investigation is interesting.
Thanks again for your help!! |
Andrew Spallek
Sergeant
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 34
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 10:08 am: | |
Hi Jono,
This is a bit late but I just noticed your post. Check out the book "Jack the Ripper and the London Press" by L. Perry Curtis, Jr. THe author does quite a bit of contextualization throughout. Hope this helps.
Andy
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Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 501
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 5:30 pm: | |
G'day everyone,
By the way, I AM NOT L. Perry Curtis, Jr!!!!!! Just thought I'd clear that up!
This is a male anyway!
Leanne Perry |
Robert Charles Linford
Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 384
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 7:07 am: | |
But you are a Chief Inspector, so congrats on your promotion....but please don't arrest Poor Old Joe.
Robert |
Martin Fido
Detective Sergeant
Username: Fido
Post Number: 58
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 7:17 am: | |
Does "this" mean LPC Jr or LP? Is Leanne uncertain about his/her gender? In my unregenerate youth I'd have been happy to show him/her how to determine this.
But revenons a nos moutons. Bruce Paley's book is very good on background, Jono. And Paul Begg's "Jack the Ripper: The Definitive History" covers new, and original background material.
All the best,
Martin F |
Ben Watson III
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 2:00 am: | |
I would like to know if anyone can tell me what a prostitute would charge for her services during the time of the Ripper murders? It seems to me like Jack would have to have the money to show his victums before he could get them interested.The amount could indicate if he had money to spend even if he took it back after he killed his victums. Social status could help narrow down potential suspects.}
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David O'Flaherty
Detective Sergeant
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 111
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 9:07 pm: | |
Hi, Ben
Others are more knowledgable, but it's my understanding that they charged very little, pennies, sometimes only enough to secure a place to sleep--twopence, fourpence. I've read of prostitutes being engaged in exchange for bread.
Best,
Dave |
Paul Williams
Police Constable
Username: Wehrwulf
Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 12:51 pm: | |
Was it normal for prostitutes to obtain the money from their clients in advance? |
Caroline Anne Morris
Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 231
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 3:17 am: | |
Hi Paul,
No one seems to know for sure what was 'normal', although it is thought that prostitutes would have expected payment before actually servicing their clients.
There are a number of variables to consider though, with a prostitute who picked up clients on a main road and took them to a quieter spot. Would the money have changed hands there on the main road, on the way, or upon arrival? Both parties would have been wary of the other trying to cheat or assault them, and it would have been up to the individual to decide what worked best for them, and whether to stick rigidly to a certain routine or adapt as the situation dictated. To the very desperate, for example, money would not always be the only acceptable payment.
There are several ways for Jack to have posed as a prepaying customer and still left his victims penniless. He may have been able to wait until they reached a suitable spot, pretended to fish out his cash and launched his attack instead. He could have handed over coins on request, watched where his victim put them and retrieved them later. He could have paid a victim with gifts of food or drink or something she could sell. Unless he considered the transaction as part of a fixed ritual, he could have used more than one method, depending on the circumstances. Flexibility would have served him well.
Love,
Caz
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Jon Smyth
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jon
Post Number: 55
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 10:10 am: | |
Excellent summary Caz.
Though, logic would tend to agree with all the possibilities you raise I tend to think that only the very desperate 'ladies' would accept 'gifts' as opposed to coin.
Anything but coin requires more work (selling?) to change that gift into coin.
Most hookers, I would think, would tell such a client to "push-off", she'd wait for a client with cash.
But, you are correct in general in that any of your suggestions may have been acceptable, depending on the desperation of the 'lady' in question.
One point to remember though, were pawn shops open at all hours of the night?.
Any hooker out after midnight looking for doss money would need cash, she is not going to want to wait till the pawnbrokers open to trade a 'gift' in for coin.
Payment in 'gifts' are less atractive, cause for more work and a delay in payment so in the cases of Nichols, Chapman & Eddowes, etc, in fact any hooker out after midnight, the likleyhood of them accepting gifts instead of coin are, I think, unlikely.
Gifts along with money were known though, (bonnet? grapes? sweetmeats?, etc) though these may not have been provided by 'Jack' himself.
I would suggest a hooker operating in the daytime would be more likely to accept gifts to pawn, but thats just an opinion.
Well written summary though.
Regards, Jon |
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 261
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 10:05 am: | |
Hi, Jon and Caz:
I believe we have some clues that Jack was a gift-giver (the bonnets in the Nichols case, the scarves several women appeared to have had, the flower in the Stride case). Moreover, logic would imply he was a believable, honey-tongued devil. I would take this to imply that the promise of forthcoming money was understood even if the women never received it, or else that Jack took it back after the murders.
All my best
Chris |
Billy Markland
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 5:19 am: | |
I found this link which seems to offer a smorgasboard of information regarding Victorian London, including maps! The only problem is that the authors of the pages used frames and quite frankly, made the blessed type much to small to comfortably read.
http://www.victorianlondon.org/
Best of wishes,
Billy |
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