| Author |
Message |
    
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3053
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 4:29 pm: | 
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I don't think I have seen this particular letter before, others yes, but not this one.
'Document 4 transcript: reference MEPO 1/ 55
Police letter, 9 October 1888. From Charles Warren to Henry Matthews, regarding the offer of a pardon to
any accomplices that the Ripper may have
4 Whitehall Place S.W.
9
th
October 1888
Sir,
In reply to your immediate [text missing] just received on the subject of
[text missing] for the information of the Secretary of State that during the
last three or four days I have been coming to the conclusion that useful
results would be produced by the offer of a pardon to accomplices. Among
the variety of theories there is the possibility that the murderer is someone
who during the daytime is sane, but who at certain periods is overtaken in
his mind; and I think it possible in that case that his relatives or neighbours
may possibly be aware of his peculiarities and may have gradually
unwittingly slid into [the roles of accomplices].
On the other hand if it is the work of a gang in which only one actually
commits the murder, the free pardon to the accomplice may make the
difference of information being obtained.
As a striking commentary on this matter I have today received a letter
from a person asserting himself to be an accomplice and asking for a free
pardon; and I am commencing a communication with him through an
advertisement in a journal. This letter is probably a hoax, for we have
received scores of hoaxing letters, but on the other hand it may be a bona
fide letter and if [text missing] would be to the discovery of the murderer by
omitting to offer the pardon; and I cannot see what harm can be done in
this or any further case by offering a pardon.
I am,
Sir,
Your most obedient servant,
Charles Warren ' |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5513
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 4:46 pm: |
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Hi AP
Sugden refers to this letter. He says that a few days later Warren wrote to say that the professed accomplice didn't turn up, bit he was now following another lead that looked more hopeful.
Robert |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2790
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 5:04 pm: |
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I hadnt seen the letter but as Robert says I remember reading about such a letter.Thanks for posting it Ap.
Natalie |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3054
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 5:45 pm: |
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Thanks Natalie & Robert.
The letter appears to say much more than previous letters on the subject I have seen before. One wonders why it wasn't included in the reference works, like the 'Saucebook' and the 'A to B'?
Here is another which I personally have not seen before:
'
Document 2 transcript: reference MEPO 1/48
Police letter, 9 October 1888. From Charles Warren to Sir James Fraser, suggesting that the two police
forces should be in closer communication
9.10.88
Sir J Fraser
My dear Fraser,
In order to prevent our working doubly over the same ground I have to
suggest that our CID should be in more constant communication with
yours about the W[hitechapel] murders.
Could you send an officer to Ch[ief] Insp[ector] Swanson here every
morning to consult or may I send an officer every morning to consult with
your officers.
We are inundated with suggestions and names of suspects.
Truly Yours,
C.W. [Charles Warren] ' |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2796
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 10:57 am: |
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This one too Ap,a remarkable letter.It gives concrete evidence of an attempt at liaison between the two!
Thanks
Natalie |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3058
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 12:53 pm: |
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Glad you liked it, Natalie.
Here is yet another, again I have seen similar letters, but none as explicit as this concerning the use of bloodhounds:
'Document 3 transcript: reference MEPO 1/ 48
Police letter, 1888. From Charles Warren to Percy Lindley on the subject of bloodhounds
Percy Lindley
York Hill
Loughton
Sir,
I have seen your letter in the Times on subject of bloodhounds and
perhaps you could answer a question I have put to many without
satisfactory reply.
Supposing a hound to be brought up at once to a corpse after a murder
how is he to know what are the tracks or which is the scent of the
murderer or how is he to know that you want the particular track
tracked.
If the murderer left a portion of his clothing behind and some of his
blood I can understand a dog following up or if you could show him a
particular spot where he had been standing even but on a London
pavement where people have been walking all the evening there may
be scores of scents almost as keen as those of the murderer.
This seems to me to be the initial difficulty and I should be glad if you
could give me a solution to it.
Truly yours,
C.W. [Charles Warren]
Would a hound follow up a person on whose hands was the blood of a
murdered person if he is shown the blood on the ground. I scarcely
think he could.' |
John Savage
Chief Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 551
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 4:25 pm: |
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Hi Ap,
You seem to be making some great finds in these MEPO files, I don't know were you are getting them, but they are certainly very interesting.
More I hope?
Rgds
John |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3061
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 5:02 pm: |
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Yes, John, they are of interest.
I may have seen the next one, but perhaps not like this:
Document 5 transcript: reference HO 144/221
Police letter, 11 Nov 1888. From Thomas Gribton suggesting that policemen should dress up as women
Date 11 Nov 1888
Mr Thomas Blair
References, &c
East End Murders
Offers suggestion for capturing the murderer.
Pressing
MINUTES
Police to dress and act as women decoys.
Ackn[owledge] and Lay by C[harles] [Warren] Nov 13
Pressing
Nov 11
th
88
Plan for entrapping the Whitechapel Murderer. Let a number of men – say
twelve be selected, of short stature, and as far as possible of effeminate
appearance, but of known courage and tried nerve.
dress them as females of the class from whom the victims are selected,
arm them with the best and lightest weapons and distribute them over the
district haunted by the murderer.
Note. The men would require to be fair actors, and behave in the natural
manner of women of that class, further they would require to be shadowed
by help, in an unobtrusive way, and the whole scheme would require to be
kept absolutely secret, for once let the press get a hint of it, and farewell to
any chance of success.
This plan is baised [sic] on the theory that the murderer solicits intercourse
and that the woman accompanies him to a quiet spot, where the crime is
committed, while in the act. So that men who undertook the duty of
capturing him would require to have all their wits about them
Thomas Blair
Gribton
Dumfries |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5521
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 5:38 pm: |
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That suggestion was either from Thomas Gribton, or Lance Corporal Jones, wandering into the realms of fantasy again.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3063
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 5:46 pm: |
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Personally speaking, Robert, I like my men dressed as women tall.
The short ones are usually policemen dressed as whores.
Here is another, yes, seen before, but more detail 'ere, the sense of panic is palpable even in September 1889:
Document 6 transcript: reference MEPO 2/227
Police letter, 11 September 1889. From James Munro to Henry Matthews, requesting further police officers
in the Whitechapel area
Transcript
11. 9. 89
Done G
H.O.
Our experience in connection with the last Whitechapel Murder shows
that notwithstanding every precaution the murderer has been enabled
to slip through our patrols, and dispose of the body of his victim without
being observed by police. All that I can do is to strengthen the force of
police in the locality, and make it more difficult than before for these
lamentable occurrences to take place. For this purpose I shall require
100 more men, both uniform and plain clothes. I cannot possibly
arrange for their transfer from other Divisions, which have already
furnished men for the East End, and I therefore ask for an augmentation
of 100 men for a couple of months, in addition to those whom I here
already have under HO letter.
As soon as I can see my way to reduce the number S[ecretary] of
S[tate] may rely upon my doing so, but we must put a stop to these
Whitechapel Outrages, and for this the number of men applied for is
absolutely necessary. I trust therefore that I may receive immediate
sanction to supply the above number of men for the time mentioned.
JM
11/9 |
Dan Norder
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 1100
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 5:53 pm: |
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"The men would require to be fair actors, and behave in the natural manner of women of that class"
I can just imagine the secret planning meeting where the men are instructed in the fine art of knee tremblers and other such services...
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
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Sir Robert Anderson
Chief Inspector
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 723
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 11:11 pm: |
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"Let a number of men – say
twelve be selected, of short stature, and as far as possible of effeminate
appearance, but of known courage and tried nerve."
I can see a moment of levity in an otherwise horrific situation once the selections were named.
Sir Robert
'Tempus Omnia Revelat'
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3066
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 6:46 am: |
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And while we have them dressed as 'ladies' we wouldn't want them to get 'sore' little feet would we?
Document 1 transcript: reference MEPO 1/ 55 (p.321 – 322)
Police letter. Undated. From an unknown person to Henry Matthews, the Secretary of State, reporting on
trials of police boots
During the past twelve months Sir Charles Warren has had trials made
of several varieties of boots with [text missing] waterproof or silent [text
missing] none have [text missing] suitable for the [text missing] police
force of [text missing] adapted [text missing] when the changes of [text
missing] and weather are taken into consideration though in [text
missing] instances they have been found very suitable in particular
cases.
The constable has to walk daily for 8 hours and the greatest caution is
required in making changes in his boots, as upon these his efficiency so
much depends.
Two important complaints against the noiseless boots are that the
wearer is very much more fatigued than when ordinary boots are worn,
and that the feet are ‘drawn’ and made sore.
Many very strong reasons have been sent to the Commissioner by the
public in favour of the retention by Police on their beats of boots which
are not silent. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5525
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 8:04 am: |
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I think that any comedy version of JTR should include the line :
NARRATOR : Nothing could be heard save the steady plod of the bobby on his beat.
(And then we hear the sound of tap-dancing getting louder)
Robert |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3570
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 10:57 am: |
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AP-
I LOVE that letter re the Rozzers dressing up!!!
'Effeminate appearnce', Dear God !!!!(Moustache notwithstanding!)....Fair actors(!).... behaving in the manner of the women!!!!!! WHAT an image eh!
But as long as they have the lightest of weapons (HE HEE) then all would I'm sure have been well!
Excellent finds AP!
Suzi 
'The multitude is always in the wrong'-Dillon Wentworth Earl of Roscommon 1633?-1685
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3571
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 11:02 am: |
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Robert!
Remember that vision of Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon walking down the platform in 'Some Like it Hot'....Thats's the one!!!!!!!!
Heeeeeeeee heeeeeeeeeeee Can't quite dismiss that image from my mind as the bobbies in pairs enter Mitre Square!!!!!(I MUST though!)
Suzi x
'The multitude is always in the wrong'-Dillon Wentworth Earl of Roscommon 1633?-1685
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3572
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
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Robert!
Remember that vision of Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon walking down the platform in 'Some Like it Hot'....Thats's the one!!!!!!!!
Heeeeeeeee heeeeeeeeeeee Can't quite dismiss that image from my mind as the bobbies in pairs enter Mitre Square!!!!!(I MUST though!)
Suzi x
'The multitude is always in the wrong'-Dillon Wentworth Earl of Roscommon 1633?-1685
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3573
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
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God the image was there twice!!!!!!!! ignore the last one!!!
Suzi
'The multitude is always in the wrong'-Dillon Wentworth Earl of Roscommon 1633?-1685
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3574
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 11:23 am: |
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Still Cracks me up beyond belief!!
Suzi
'The multitude is always in the wrong'-Dillon Wentworth Earl of Roscommon 1633?-1685
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3575
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 11:30 am: |
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Afficionados can crack up with me by reading some lines on this link
http://www.filmsite.org/some.html
Crying here!!!!!
Suzi x
'The multitude is always in the wrong'-Dillon Wentworth Earl of Roscommon 1633?-1685
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5526
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 11:45 am: |
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Suzi, or Kenneth Williams and Charles Hawtrey in drag in Carry On Constable.
robert |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3577
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 11:49 am: |
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Can you JUST SEE it!!!!!!! heeeeeeeeee what a divine image eh!
Suzix
'The multitude is always in the wrong'-Dillon Wentworth Earl of Roscommon 1633?-1685
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3069
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 6:11 pm: |
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Some of the letters on file which others may not have seen. It is possible to get the actual images up.
'Document 7 transcript: reference MEPO 3/142 (p. 4 – 5)
‘Jack’ letter, 24 Sept 1888. ‘Dear Sir I do wish to give myself up …’
Transcript
On Her Majesterys [sic] service
Sir Charles Warren
Commissioner of Police
Scotland Yard
[Postmarked] London SE 12 SP 24 1888
Sept 24 1888
Dear Sir
I do wish to give myself up I am in misery with nightmare I am the man who
committed all these murders in the last six months my name is [silhouette of
coffin] so and so I am a horse slauterer [sic] and work at name [blocked out]
address [blocked out] I have found the woman I wanted that is Chapman
and I done what I called slautered [sic] her but if any one comes I will
surrender but I am not going to walk to the station by myself so I am yours
truly [silhouette of coffin]
Keep the Boro road clear or I might take a trip up there photo of
knife[silhouette of knife]
This is the knife that I done these murders with it is small handle with a large
long blade sharpe both sides ' |
