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John Ruffels
Chief Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 502
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 6:59 am: | 
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There have been several attempts at hoodwinking Casebook by anonymous posters depositing dubious photographic images claiming to show this or that over the years.
Frequently, some very sharp Casebook members have turned their forensic talents towards looking for clues in these suspect images. And very often, uncovering the fakes. This is a unique talent.
Bearing in mind Casebook readers and members come from all over the world. I should like some help with a just-forming idea I have.
Is there a formal college course or are there a series of books or lectures..(even websites) which can teach me how to investigate mystery photographs and other images? To identify their subject?
For instance just what word formula would YOU put into a Google Search to find an answer to that question?
The reason prompting this musing, is the discovery in Sydney, Australia some three year's ago in the water-logged basement of a suburban wharehouse, of ten thousand Police photographic glass and acetate negatives of people , buildings,
street-scapes and murder sites, and just plain arrested persons from the Sydney of the period 1912 to 1949.Most were unidentified.
A university media lecturer/novelist and curator has recently prepared an exhibition of about fifty selected photo images from this collection.
A book has been published, and I am going to his lecture on 7 February.
His name is Peter Doyle and his exhibition and book (CITY OF SHADOWS) is being presented at the Sydney Justice and Police Museum, for one year from late December last.That museum is run by the Historic Houses Trust ,Sydney.
I intend to approach Dr Doyle about my idea to set up a "foto forensics" or "Image identification Course" in Sydney in the near future. Firstly, I should like to have a Conference of experts to share ideas on just what people, resources and money would be required to establish such a facility.
Genealogists seem to publish articles in "Family Tree" magazine in America.(They have a resident "photo sleuth" named Maureen A. Taylor
who dispenses advice and publishes the results of her findings. A couple of her articles have listed ways to study mystery photographs).
Can any readers suggest other photographic identifiers? And does the F.B.I or Scotland Yard employ such experts? Does the C.I.A.?
Do you know of ways to analyse old photos? Could you post a list of your methods?
I am "on a learning curve" here. So any suggestions which stick to the subject are gratefully anticipated.
Finally,Dr Doyle's own father was a Police Detective, and I notice in the exhibition photos of crime scenes and original police documents for one particular case, which seem to have found their way into the personal possession of Dr Doyle's father!! There may, of course, be a legitimate excuse for this.
Sounds familiar to Ripperologists though doesn't it? |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 949
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 8:11 am: |
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I would start with a thorough investigation of the science and technology of photography from a historical perspective. Learn exactly how it works today and exactly how it worked when invented and during all the various stages of its progress in between. Learn what materials were used at each stage, their characteristics, sources and how they were used. In all probability, once you have done that, some of the information you discover will provide signposts for other things to investigate.
Then you might visit flea markets, or look on ebay for samples of old tintypes, daguerrotypes, old cameras and photographic equipment. Start a collection. |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 978
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 8:39 am: |
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The author Robert Pols has published some excellent books on how you can identify and date old CDVs from the poses, backgrounds and clothes.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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John Ruffels
Chief Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 503
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 4:55 pm: |
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Thanks Diana and Philip,
Both excellent suggestions.
Diana,
You are no doubt aware there are countless books which deal with the history, mechanics and
chemistry in the evolution of photography.Your suggestion is eminently logical. And like Philip's useful nomination of Robert Pols as a relevant expert and writer on the subject
indicates to me the field already has specialists
who are thoroughly steeped in separate aspects of the subject of photographic examination.
Diana's suggestion provides a useful guide for the syllabus of a future course on the topic.
Philip, thanks for providing a suggested text which could be included.
Both will help with my Googling. |
John Savage
Chief Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 550
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 7:16 pm: |
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Hi John,
May I suggest that one way of finding out more about old photographs is to try and publish them, the photographs of Sydney from 1912 - 1949 are within living memory and it is likely that some people viewing them will be able to give valuable assistance.
I did something similar to this last year when I put a postcard picture of a house in Oakley Street, Chelsea, on this site and within a very short time, with the aid of many posters the amount of information we were able to obtain was fantastic.
Rgds
John |
David A. Green
Police Constable
Username: Dag
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 7:27 pm: |
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An important text in this field is 'Camera Clues: A Handbook for Photographic Investigation' by Joe Nickell, the noted investigator of frauds, forgeries, and hoaxes. You can find reviews of it on Amazon and in other places. It was originally published in 1994, but a new edition came out last year.
Good luck with your studies! |
Dan L. Hollifield
Detective Sergeant
Username: Vila
Post Number: 93
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 9:50 pm: |
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One thing I thought at once: Take digital photos of the displays and use a good graphics program to enlarge them. That'll help in looking for small clues to the period from background settings. I'll add a small cropped bit from a digital photo on one of my oil paintings. The image is unchanged, except for the cropping, from the original take by the camera on Automatic. I was standing about 9 feet from the painting and the image is about 2/3rds life size.
Pretty neat detail work, even without the optical or digital zoom effects the camera can do. I have a pic of my poster-sized map that goes with the series stories I've written over the last decade... In the raw photo, you can almost read the lettering on the map. Digital cameras are a cool tool for almost any image investigating.
Vila
"Extremely difficult. Virtually impossible... However, it should only take me ten minutes or so."
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John Ruffels
Chief Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 504
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 6:42 am: |
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Dear John Savage, David A.,and Vila,
Thank you for your economically expressed, but very useful suggestions.
I am pleased I did not get too many replies merely stating the "bleeding obvious".
John S.,
Your suggestion to publish a collection is a very good one.Because this encourages those familiar with the subject matter, not just historians and technical experts to join in. And in my past experience, just as Eddie Derico claimed on another thread, his young son demonstrated amazing eyesight in spotting unsuspected clues.
(and I don't want to engage in a discussion here, on whether what was seen there was legit.or not).
My point is, some lay-persons in the street, have extraordinary powers of observation. A tool not all experts possess.
Thanks David A. Green for suggesting a very relevant book by Joe Nicholl.I shall seek to track that down on Amazon. Just as I am Robert Pols, suggested by Philip above.Nicholl seems to include advice outside the usual family tree researcher's field (You know, fashion changes and guessing ages of unknown persons in known groupings, etc).
I was very interested to read on the "Net" one person's suggestion, it is possible to identify people by their EARS which, they claimed, never change! Well, I've noticed older persons seem to need larger ears. But, I guess basically, ears are like fingerprints...
Vila, your practical suggestion that a digital photo of exhibition image, was extremely interesting. I had read about using enlarged, scanned, images, and trawling slowly through them centimetre by inch...Even pixellating writing..
So I will speak to some techno-literate digital camera persons and find out more. Thanks.
I think several different types of experts are needed: depending on the collections subject matter.Often local knowledge is good.
I am a postman (mailman) in Australia, and I know postpersons with intimate knowledge of the landscape they travel, day in and day out. One good example of specialised local knowledge.
I am pleased none of the information you have all provided will give ideas to future hoaxers.
And thanks Vila for posting a microcosm of one of your paintings.Digital cameras.Verry inter-esting..
And thanks David A., for your good wishes. |
John Ruffels
Chief Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 505
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 4:09 am: |
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Hello David A Green,
I apologise David. The correct name is not as I wrote it: like the old NICHOLL Gang- Joe Nicholl, but as you wrote it - JOE NICKELL.
Perhaps I need to put another one in.
And I want to train myself to be observant! |
John Ruffels
Chief Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 506
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 4:12 am: |
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TAKE THREE:
Not even Nickell, but Nickel.Just like the coin!
Doh! |
John Ruffels
Chief Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 507
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 4:15 am: |
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TAKE FOUR: I give up. My printer chopped the final "l" off the correct "Nickell". |
John Ruffels
Chief Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 509
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 5:13 am: |
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Hello Again to David A Green,
Your suggestion of the book CAMERA CLUES by Joe Nickell, has turned out to be just the text I have been looking for.
After registering with Amazon,I thought I'd try an Australian website. And lo and behold.
I've been into the city and now possess a shiny new (paperback) edition of this excellent book.
I shall also seek a copy of Robert Pols British publication, UNDERSTANDING PHOTOGRAPHS which I learnt is in the process of being re-printed.
For those who may be interested in the type of police mugshots on exhibition in the display I mention above, and a very good discussion on "Bertillon" and "non-Bertillon" mugshots, please click onto the following link:
http://scan.net.au/scan/journal/display.php?journal_id=67
Hopefully I will have posted the link properly.
Finally, I have read author Nickell's discussion of the importance of EARS for facial identification: make no mistake about it....
THE EARS HAVE IT
Thanks again to all the above for useful information.
I hope Chris George and A.P. Wolfe have looked at this thread. I am sure, between them, they probably know as much as the experts.
And, of course, Stephen P Ryder.. |
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