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Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 944
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 10:47 am: | 
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Petticoat Lane was the original name of a street running north/south in the Ripper district. In Victorian times it was considered indelicate to name a street after a ladies undergarment, so the name was changed to Middlesex Street. However the locals still called it Petticoat Lane. You can find it on any map of Whitechapel quite easily.
The name was acquired in the late middle ages or renaissance period because Middlesex Street or Petticoat Lane as it was then called was the site of a huge ongoing flea market which bought and sold all kinds of things but primarily second hand clothing. The flea market still exists today.
Petticoat Lane is located one block to the west and parallel to Goulston Street where the apron and graffito were found. In fact JTR would have had to cross it to get to Goulston from Mitre Square.
On Saturdays the flea market shut down. On Sundays it did its greatest business, and on those days the stalls spilled over onto adjacent streets including Goulston Street.
It is interesting that Polly Nichols had just acquired a jolly bonnet, Liz Stride, the day before she died left a length of green velvet with a friend, Cathy Eddowes had just pawned some boots, and Mary Kelly had a collection of clothes left with her, which for some strange reason were burned.
Most of my information was gleaned from a troll through the internet. One site which was particularly helpful in describing the atmosphere of the place is found at http://www.victorianlondon.org/markets/petticoatlane.htm I apologize for the author's apparent antisemitic slant.
Please note that the double event occurred on a Saturday/Sunday night. The graffito was erased because there was concern that the vendors would be arriving shortly to set up their stalls in the street and would see it.
Some of the witnesses described Jack as "Shabby Genteel". If I go to a flea market and buy second hand clothing, which in its better days belonged to the upper class, that is the way I will look. If I am of the working classes and want to dress like a toff, I might be able to buy what I need in Petticoat Lane. However I would be ignorant of the fact that you don't wear spats at night.
I really didn't understand till now what a prominent place this flea market occupied in Whitechapel, how much it affected the economy, how close it was to the crime scenes, and the possible implications for its involvement.
I would like to know what hours this thing was operational. It might be interesting to try coordinating them with Jack's killing times. |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3544
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 11:55 am: |
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Diana
Petticoat Lane aka Middlesex Street which yes ,does run parallel to Goulston Street and Commercial Street' is still a thriving market area,covering Wentworth Street as well.
Its a highly 'cosmopolitan' market mainly these days though dealing in clothes,shoes and music most week days
This is a pic from the A-Z of the market in Commercial Street (next St up)
showing the Britannia on the corner of Dorset Street
and this shows the proximity of the three streets and how they link up!
As you can see its VERY, 'LOCAL' shall we say to the murders.
It is,as you say interesting that some of the girls had 'things' that could have been purchassed from a market,or more than likely someone(!) may have treated them to a bonnet,piece of cloth etc.
It was, I'm sure,at the time, the hub of employment and interest in the area at ...as it is today!
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3545
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 11:57 am: |
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AS it is today I mean!!!!
LOL
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3546
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 12:02 pm: |
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Diana
Take a look at http://www.eastlondonmarkets.com and check them out!
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3547
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 12:12 pm: |
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Better map !
http://www.eastlondonmarkets.com/Map.htm
Good luck!
Suzi |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 945
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 3:11 pm: |
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lets not forget Diemschutz, purveyor of cheap jewelry if I remember correctly. He could have had a stall there. |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 946
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 1:10 pm: |
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Why erase the graffito so fast? The description I have read of the petticoat lane market seems to indicate that the vast majority of the vendors were Jewish. In light of that fact I'm puzzled by the haste with which the graffiti was erased.
The first people on the scene would probably be Jewish vendors. They would not riot against each other. At most they would be disgusted and want to wipe it off.
Its not as though gentiles would be likely to see it and go berserk. The vendors were not gentiles. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2458
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 11:27 am: |
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Hi Diana,
Diemschutz was indeed a street salesman of cheap jewellery. But on Saturday September 29 1888 he was selling his wares all afternoon and evening at Westow Hill Market, Sydenham, south of the river - quite a trek by pony and cart, considering how much nearer the Jews' Market (as Petticoat Lane was also known) would have been. Maybe he didn't have his own patch there. (Ah, I've just read your post again and it seems the Jews' Market was shut on Saturdays.  )
How would it affect our view of the graffito if its author had in mind specifically the 'Juwes' of the Jews' Market when chalking his message?
Would it not have been practical for him to aim his dart straight at 'the first people on the scene' along with the daylight? "You lot will get the blame and it won't be for nothing".
Add the bloody apron and you have a near-perfect recipe for upsetting the Jewish vendors and promoting social unrest in the immediate vicinity of their livelihood.
Except that the 'Juwes' were not first on the scene in the event.
I do wonder if the misspelling was deliberate, to add insult to injury. We have numerous examples of this on the boards where someone spells a poster's name incorrectly, and it's as likely to be out of mischief as carelessness. I've done it myself in the past, so I can't object if it's done to me. It's merely an observation.
Love,
Caz
X
(Message edited by caz on January 06, 2006) |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 953
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 2:22 pm: |
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If Jack wrote the graffito I don't doubt you're correct. He would have been taking a pot shot at the Jews.
But what I don't understand is the police reaction. What the police feared was an antisemitic riot. If the first people to find the graffito were going to be Jewish vendors they wouldn't have rioted against themselves. At most they would have gotten disgusted and wiped it off.
The thing that intrigues me is Polly's bonnet, Liz' green velvet cloth, Kathy's pawned boots and Mary's collection of clothes. Because all those things point to a possible connection with Petticoat Lane. Annie may have had something too that we just don't know about. I'm wondering if there is a common denominator. Did each of them do business in PL just before her death? With whom? |
Carl
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 9:11 am: |
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Hi Caz, hope I will catch you on this thread, long time no speak. Happy New Year to yourself and family. I would be grateful if you could drop me line at carl@34gg.freeserve.co.uk
Our work is nearing completion and we could do with some advice if possible. TB. |
matfelon
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 2:44 pm: |
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Dealing in second-hand clothes was a common occupation for the new immigrant in the 19th century.
London labour and the London poor: the condition and earnings of those that will work, cannot work, and will not work volume 2, The Jew Old-Clothes Man, Henry Mayhew, 1861. Illustration of a Jewish street-seller with a sack over his shoulder. |
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