| Author |
Message |
    
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1109
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 5:06 pm: | 
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Thanks for elaboratiing further on the issue,A.P.
I was not trying to dismiss the point you are trying to raise here. Far from it,my friend.
It would be a good thing to check out Hospitals for early October 1888 entries for these sort of cases. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2803
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 5:34 pm: |
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Dave, thanks for the compliment.
Just like Robert, you have a great sense of humour, and I always enjoy your posts so much.
I think we share a love of the obscure when it comes to research. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2809
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 12:44 pm: |
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Two senior police officers involved in the Whitechapel Murderer case who died of chronic Bright’s disease:
Inspector Edmund Reid. Died 1917.
Chief Inspector John Littlechild. Died 1923.
Surprised to note that there was another senior police officer involved in the case besides Cutbush who committed suicide.
Inspector Walter Andrews who hung himself in 1899.
Now that is unusual, and I’m beginning to wonder if both Cutbush and Andrews suffered from chronic Bright’s, as suicide appears to be relatively common in sufferers at the chronic stage of the disease. |
BelindafromHenmans
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 1:34 pm: |
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I don't want to throw a bucket of water over this, but it is as yet completely unknown whether the kidney sent to Lusk in a brown paper parcel was Catharine Eddowes own. ( This is the kidney identified as belonging to a Bright's sufferer). As it is a well thought through prank, that parcel, it is most unlikely. Until it can be established that it was hers, ( and none of her behaviours place her as a sufferer of the disease) - then the argument is futile, there is no evidential link between her and anyone who died of Brights that would stand up in a Court of law- it's pointless. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5276
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 2:15 pm: |
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Hi Belinda
Sugden quotes Brown as saying that the right kidney was "pale bloodless with slight congestion of the base of the pyramids" and points to Nick Warren's opinion that this unquestionably indicates Bright's Disease.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2811
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 3:50 pm: |
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Thanks Robert
I think there to be at least two, if not three, medical opinions of the age, that the intact kidney from Eddowes showed clear signs of Bright's disease.
Anyways I'm not trying to provide an evidential link between anyone who died of Bright's and Eddowes.
I'm just flicking rubber bands at the sun. |
BelindafromHenmans
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 4:03 pm: |
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Yes. We're back to the can we trust Brown business. Can we? He was wrongly assessing Kelly's room at 13 Miller's Court and later, leaping out of windows. For me, she just wasn't acting the part of a woman dying of Bright's. Far from it. Very active, in fact. But as you say, AP, without evidence we're flicking bands at the sun. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5278
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 3:54 am: |
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Belinda, it was Bond who went through the window.
Robert |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 865
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 7:28 am: |
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I am taking pathology this semester.
"Chronic glomerulonephritis . . . is a slowly progressive noninfectious disease that can lead to irreversible renal damage and renal failure. As an advanced stage of many kidney disorders, CGN results in inflammation followed by progressive destruction of the glomeruli. This progressive destruction causes a reduction in glomerular filtration with resulting retention of uremic poisons. . . . At first chronic glomerulonephritis is asymptomatic; then subclinical progression of the disease leads to hypertension, hematuria, proteinuria, oliguria, and edema. In the later stages with increasing renal failure, the hypertension becomes severe and azotemia develops. When the kidneys fail to remove urea from the blood (the condition of azotemia) the body compensates by attempting to excrete urea through the sweat glands. Tiny crystals of urea appear on the skin; this condition is termed uremic frost. The patient experiences fatigue malaise, nausea, vomiting, pruritis and dyspnea."
Bibliographic Reference Frazier, Margaret, and Jeannette Drzymkowski. Essentials of Human Diseases and Conditions. third ed. St. Louis: Elsevier Saunders, 2004.
Parenthetical Within Text (Frazier et al. 507)
The above quotation applies to chronic glomerulonephritis, which is thought to be the result of immune mechanisms. There is also acute glomerulonephritis which usually follows a strep infection and from the description looks like it would progress much more rapidly. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2313
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 5:41 am: |
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Hi All,
Is it a coincidence that the Lusk kidney had signs of Bright's? Or was it such a widespread disease that a prankster could pretty much bank on his offal being in a similar condition to Kate's?
Love,
Caz
X
(Message edited by caz on November 14, 2005) |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2825
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:50 pm: |
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Nice idea, Caz.
I think the New York figures from the LVP show about 1 in 100 were sufferers, but that is just a wild guess... it could be worked out though.
I ain't no good at maths.
The London figures would be about the same, as both cities were subject to much immigration during that period. |
BelindafromHenmans
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 5:42 am: |
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True! :-) Bond went through the window. But you catch my drift. They were not exactly reliable, any of them, and I think that it's unlikely that Eddowes had Bright's. Because of her lively behaviour, I'm reluctant to take one Doctor's opinion, and then go 'looking for the moon'. No one will identify her killer via a Bright's disease victim. |
Tee@jtrforumsuk
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 6:07 am: |
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In some occult rituals a diseased body part is better than a clean unadulterated body part. And so ... The Ripper may have known, and wanted this ruined organ in particular.
Interesting thread AP.
Tee.
www.jtrforums.co.uk
THE Original JtRForums |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1122
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 7:32 pm: |
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"In some occult rituals a diseased body part is better than a clean unadulterated body part.."
Please elaborate as to which occult rituals this refers to....if you are able to. Thank you. |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1126
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 5:30 am: |
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"In some occult rituals a diseased body part is better than a clean unadulterated body part.."
The inference in this statement also suggests that the Ripper was pursuing diseased body parts,which begs the question...
How would the Ripper know that Mrs. Eddowes had Bright's Disease? Please elaborate.
Thank you. |
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3203
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 5:31 am: |
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How, Tee, guys
did Eddowes know herself she had it?
Jenni
"You know I'm not gonna diss you on the Internet
Cause my mamma taught me better than that."
|
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1144
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 7:04 pm: |
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Jenni:
Its impossible to know of course,whether Kate knew,since we don't know if she was seen by a physician and diagnosed one way or the other at this time. I think that she, as with most hard-luck women of that time, was more concerned with having a roof over their head at the end of the day than a clean bill of health from the local doctor. I'd say no,Jenni. I don't think she would be aware of this condition...
...back to the other post above:
Which ritual specifies using "diseased organs" as part of a ritual ?
Which ritual specifies the condition of an organ before removing it and "using" it ?
Which sect or cult specifies the condition of an organ prior to using it ? |
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