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Robert Harron
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 6:30 pm: | 
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Howdy folks:
Have been reading the threads here avidly for some time, but this is the first time I've jumped out on a limb to make my presence known.
So:
Having studied the case for several years, and having looked at press reports, sundry theories and modern attempts at 'profiling' Jack, I come inescapably to the conclusion that the frenzy displayed in the attacks clearly escalates from case to case.
Polly Nichols -- throat slashed and lower abdomen mutilated by several lengthy cuts; also victim suffered two stabs to 'private parts.'
Annie Chapman -- In the case of the second victim, the mutilations to the lower abdomen are much more extensive, with intestines, etc., pulled from body cavity and placed on shoulder of corpse. This violent dislocation of the inner organs did not occur in the case of Nichols.
Liz Stride -- Of course, this most generally disputed of the canonical victims suffered only a wound to the throat, but it appears certain the killer was interrupted shortly after the fatal attack.
It has always been my feeling that the interrupted attack on Stride feeds directly into the attack on Eddowes, who was by far the most viciously attacked of the victims at this point in the case.
Given that 'Jack' was not able to complete the attack on Stride -- whom I regard as a true Ripper victim -- it seems to me not exceptional that he would need to find another victim on which to unleash his inner demons, whatever they were. I feel the extraordinary degree of mutilations to Eddowes -- especially in regard to the face -- are symptomatic of a pent-up rage -- sexual or otherwise -- that the killer was desperate to unleash. I am admittedly no expert in psychology, yet it seems sound to me that Jack's rage would escalate in the aftermath of an aborted attack, and that this is the reason why the injuries inflicted upon Eddowes are notably more savage than those done to Nichols or Chapman.
Finally, there is of course, Mary Kelly, whose injuries speak for themselves. This was by far the most brutal attack to occur during the course of the "Whitechapel murders" and it was also, to my mind, the last of those committed by the man who has come to be known as Jack the Ripper.
I also, by the way, believe Martha Tabram, to be a victim of the same killer, and I believe the stab wounds to the body represent a series of injuries that would escalate in the case of Polly Nichols. The one stab wound to Tabram's stomach -- as I recall about three inches long --was similar to the several such wounds suffered by Nichols, or do I recall this incorrectly?
These are my beliefs, at any rate, and so I wonder how it is that so many people seem to believe that there is no evidence of the killer's frenzy escalating as the murders continue. I have seen this idea disputed in many posts, no doubt by people who have studied the case more assiduously than have I, and I simply would like some insight into why they do not believe the killings grow more savage in intensity.
Thanks very much for letting me post; I look forward to the replys.
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Baron von Zipper
Detective Sergeant
Username: Baron
Post Number: 146
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 10:44 am: |
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Robert,
People create or borrow theories, and to make them work they have to reinterpret evidence and case history, sometimes disregarding contemporary police work. Most of the folks here make well constructed arguments to validate their hypotheses. This makes it difficult to disprove any theory, but on the other hand, most of the theorists have evolved (or devolved at times) from one theory to another based on new information. For my part, I am with you 100%. In my opinion the killer did progress until perhaps he could butcher no more. Perhaps he was searching for something and upon the utter destruction of Mary Kelly, he either found it or realized it could not be found, and the game was over.
Martha Tabram, I'm not so sure on, but I'm open about her being a victim as well.
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 4132
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 11:41 am: |
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Robert,
There is very little doubt that the killer's work escalated to some degree, even if we only look at Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes (note the marks in Eddowes' face, for example as an addition to the mutilations we see on Chapman). A killer usually progresses to some degree because of increased self-confidence or the ability to learn as he goes along. This is what could be expected.
Apart from that, I think you are taking too many things for granted and are drawing to hard conclusions. In my mind and experience, the progress of the killer does not necessarily provide the answer for murder victims like Kelly or Tabram and you're doing the ultimate mistake that relying all too heavily on escalation as the only possible explanation, just because you seem convinced of that Jack the Ripper killed all of them.
And where Stride fits into the escalation reasoning beats me, since only her throat was cut, and if the killer WAS in fact disturbed (which is not in any way settled beyond reasonable doubt), then we can't know what her murder would have looked like. Worse than Chapman or not? Or completely different?
And Nichols is in my mind not really a result of escalation from Tabram; Tabram's wounds were just different, not less.
Mot to mention the fact that Nichols' killer could have been disturbed as well.And again, if that was the case, how do we know if she wouldn't have ended up like something similar to Chapman?
Again, you are assuming too much.
We simply do not have enough information in order to draw such heavy conclusions.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on October 14, 2005)
G. Andersson, writer/historian
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Baron von Zipper
Detective Sergeant
Username: Baron
Post Number: 147
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 12:08 pm: |
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Glenn,
I agree with you about coming to hard conclusions. That seems to indicate close-mindedness which is the bane of many theories. I also understand the differences in the murders of Stride, Tabram and Kelly, i.e. unfinished business, less mutilation, and indoor killing etc..., but escalation is really very obvious (I'm sure you would say the same). There is, of course room for debate on who the victims were, but Robert's opinions are far more sensible than many of the theories out there (again, I'm sure you would agree). What's my point? Well, I would say that one needs to support their ideas, but keep an open mind. Robert's conclusions, with the possible exception of Tabram, were at one time THE conclusions. At least he's not throwing out a Maybrick or anything like that.
Cheers
Mike
"La madre degli idioti è sempre incinta"
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Phil Hill
Chief Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 971
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 2:49 am: |
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Robert - welcome to Casebook as a poster. I hope you'll register. We can do with sensible, articulate posters such as you seem to be.
I for long assumed that the escalation of the mutilations was almost a "given" in this case. Time and deeper thought - not to mention the influence of deep thinkers on Casebook - has tended to make me examine my thinking again.
I am not now certain of any more than three victims of JtR - Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes. I think there are strong arguments at least for setting Stride and MJK aside to see whether theories fit only with them included as victims, or not.
But three victims is hardly enough to establish a trend, not least as in the case of Nichols (as Glennrightly points out) the killer may have been interrupted.
I have also in recent weeks come to wonder whether the focus on the "canonical five" (a dubious and somewhat arbitrary concept anyway) can mislead. If the police had linked Tabram and even some of the earlier "attacks" to Jack in the 1890s (and, say, excluded Stride), we might today habitually look at a different number of cases and different patterns.
After all, what we are doing here is essentially playing intellectual games with restricted evidence.
I did once voice - Glenn might recall - an ide 9no more0 that in an age without biology classes at school and minimal sexual education or knowledge of anatomy - the early stabbings and what they revealed of the internal workings of the female body, might have developed in Jack a desire to explore, to see, to touch and this meant that his cutting became more drastic. I don't think that explains Kelly though, or the cuts on Eddowes face, so it's a pretty flawed model.
My advice is not to reject the escalation idea, but not to let it be a single issue efor you either. Keep it at the back of the mind and test it against other ideas as they come forward.
Regards,
Phil |
Robert Harron
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 4:10 pm: |
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Howdy Glenn and Baron V-Z:
Thanks very much for the replies. I guess I'll just keep to myself my pet theorgy about the carriage that Dr. Gull, Maybrick and the 'kidne'-munching Mary Kelly rented and rode around in together -- an event commemorated in a soon-to-be discovered oil on canvas number by Walter Sickert.
No! No! Just a joke, honest!
Back to seriousness: Although I acknowledge the difficulties implicit in keeping Stride in the canon (and even trying to put Tabram into it), my belief has always been that the escalation of injuries in regard to Catherine Eddowes is an indicator that Jack was most likely responsible for the murder of Stride. My belief is that because Jack was not able to mutilate Stride to the point where he could attain climax or whatever he was after, the pent-up feelings of rage and frenzy -- when finally released -- led to a more intense 'ripping' of the next victim, Eddowes.
Is that jumping to a conclusion? Yep. For all I know, total malarky, but it is at least one way to read the evidence.
My theories, such as they are, didn't really come first, but only after I tried to assess the nature of the injuries, and what they (might) tell us about the killer.
Frankly, were it not for the proximity of the killings of Stride and Eddowes, I would not regard Stride as a likely victim of Jack at all. I don't think history would have reached that verdict, either. It is only the nature of the double-event and the extraordinary viciousness of the strike on Eddowes that persuades me we can probably keep Stride in the canon.
Obviously, Glenn, I think anyone would have to be a 'durned fool' as we say in Ohio to make hard-and-fast pronouncements about this case 117 years after the case went cold.
I also understand there is some real possibility that Jack was interrupted in the case of Polly Nichols -- so... Well there is a lot of fodder for speculation here, huh?
One other point, it occurs to me, is that possible witnesses to the assailants of both Eddowes and Stride did describe individuals of strikingly similar appearance -- approximate age, wardrobe, coloring and height and weight, moustache, etc. This I read in Begg's 'definitive history.' Another fact that fed my theory, rather than vice versa.
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