| Author |
Message |
    
Leeroy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 3:05 am: | 
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I realise this seems dumb - but i'll say it anyway. It is probably no more ludicrous than Prince Albert and any other voodoo theory.
I see already the topic of Black Magic and the occult has come up. In certian cultures there is a genuine belief in the existence of the werewolf - as with the vampire.The mystical creature emerges in relation to the night and the moons.Much like the vampire.
My first impression on examining that Kelly photo is that a werewolf did that. If you look at her right leg, the fleash is literally dripping off her leg with visible claw marks.(post the photo if someone wishes). I know the first response will be " but didn't a knife do all that cutting" . Remember this: a true genuine werewolf has claws that are razor sharp , and would slice as easy as a knife.
In the middle ages, and as late as the 19th century there were reported werewolf sightings in Europe , and many in the America's.As I said above, it might sound as silly as some other theories, but was the Whitechapel Murderer really " AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON". |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4667
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 9:26 am: |
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Hi Leeroy
If you go to http://casebook.org/victorian_london/weather.html
you'll see that there were no full moons. Therefore, it either wasn't a werewolf, or it was a werewolf getting paid extra for overtime.
Robert |
Dan Norder
Chief Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 764
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 11:40 am: |
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Hi Leeroy,
Actually, the whole werewolf being linked to phases of the moon thing was not a typical feature of folklore. It was mentioned in a couple of minor references that were adapted by writers and turned into a common trait by people who can't separate fiction from legend.
And you are wrong about it sounding just as silly as other theories. It is is quite a bit sillier than the vast majority of them. The Royal Conspiracy theory may be nuts, but at least royalty exists. Werewolves do not.
If you want a history of werewolf beliefs, you can hop on over to www.werewolves.com/bookofwerewolves.html and read up on it. You'll note that in many cases the term was just used to describe people who these days would be called serial killers, with the supernatural events being tacked on by overimaginative people trying to make sense of things they didn't understand.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
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Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 3698
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 12:36 pm: |
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Dan, Leeroy,
I agree with Dan. Apart from the mental illnesses 'lycanthropy' and 'porphyria' (the latter usually referred to as an explanation to modern 'vampirism'), the only known werewolf-like condition is the physical illness 'congenital generalized hypertrichosis', which causes an unnatural growth of animal-like body hair.
Besides those clinical conditions, werewolves can in my view without further doubts be seen as pure mythology, and it is considered by historians on the subject (as well as criminal profilers like Paul Britton) that the victims of 'werevolves' in the old days were in fact victims of mutilating and cannibalising serial killers, a concept that was pretty much unknown in historic times.
As far as I know, the Miller's Court murder does not include any suspect observed by a witness, that fits a werewolf-like description, unless Mr Blotchy Face had a fuller moustache than we thought.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on July 11, 2005)
G. Andersson, writer/crime historian
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2290
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 3:03 pm: |
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Speaking on behalf of the very ancient order of Werewolves, of which I am a founder member, I can assure the poster that none of our ancient members took part in the slaying of Mary Kelly, as she was a good Catholic girl who carried her crucifix at all times, and was known to munch on a garlic bulb when the fancy took her.
However we must own up to a slight nibble on Eddowes.
It was the moon.
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 696
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 3:29 pm: |
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LeeRoy:
Glenn knows his stuff. So does Dan. Get someone to verify what A.P. claims..I don't trust her. She'll say anything to make werewolves appear like "just plain folks".
Glenn said, "The only known werewolf-like condition is the physical illness 'congenital generalized hypertrichosis', which causes an unnatural growth of animal-like body hair."
In Glenn's haste, he omitted the obvious correlation between Hungarian women and modern lycanthropes. The Magyar women are well known for their hairy backs,palms,and assorted apertures. Its always "full moon" for them. Trust me.... |
Poorhoney
Sergeant
Username: Poorhoney
Post Number: 30
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 3:37 pm: |
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Kudos Leeroy,
I do enjoy a bit of whimsy, not to mention you have finally taken the heat off of the herbivorous Sasquatch.
Poorhoney
Punxsutawney Phil is a groundhog!
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Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 3700
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 3:47 pm: |
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Howie, my friend,
"In Glenn's haste, he omitted the obvious correlation between Hungarian women and modern lycanthropes. The Magyar women are well known for their hairy backs,palms,and assorted apertures. Its always "full moon" for them. Trust me...."
I won't ask you about your personal experiences in this regard (the "trust me" part), but I'll take your word for it.
Still, a lot of Hungarian women are actually knock-outs and does not at all fits this description; I think you have watched too many athletic shot-putters. 
As for AP, it's the Spanish brandy talking, as usual.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on July 11, 2005)
G. Andersson, writer/crime historian
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 699
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 4:17 pm: |
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Glenners..
My dear sir,I was referring to my Grandmom and Mom,as well as a couple of Aunts [ Anna and Elizabet, The Hair Pair], whose furry backs alone could provide enough hair to cover the bald pates of every manjack in Stockholm,London,and Rome. Trust me. |
Paul Williams
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wehrwulf
Post Number: 52
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 4:26 pm: |
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I wrote a Phd about the wolf in folklore with an extensive chapter on lycanthropy. During this I discussed the possibility that some of the werewolves executed in Europe throughout the middle ages were people who had committed sexual offences, especially against young children. Whilst I don't fully accept this theory it does appear that people sought supernatural explanations for human behaviour considered to be abnormal. Today we look for psychological explantions within the minds, and backgrounds, of the individuals. |
Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 3701
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 4:39 pm: |
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Howers..
Ah, I see.
OK, now I won't be able to get to sleep tonight... 
Paul,
That is true. People chose supernatural explanations, simply because all they had at the time was local myths or religion to base their perceptions on.
It is probably true also, that modern man is seeking explanations in psychology for the abnormal. At least from a scientific point of view.
All the best
G. Andersson, writer/crime historian
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4670
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 4:57 pm: |
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I think Colin Wilson once made the point that evil people, monsters if you like, have often seemed surprisingly ordinary - the reaction being "Not him! He couldn't have done that!" And hence the medieval resort to demonic possession as a way of trying to explain the inexplicable - that the deed seemed much more evil than the doer.
Robert |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2180
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 5:31 pm: |
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Dear Howard,sorry to have misinterpreted that other post.
I had no idea you were talking about your mum ,nan and your two aunts.
I think I had better leave it there or I won"t sleep tonight!
Nats
ps take care Howard-all the best for tomorrow
xxx
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2753
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 6:10 pm: |
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My goodness Howy!!!!
Must be something to do with the waxing (or not !!!) of the moon!!!!
Rob /AP
Surely we cant be talking about that nice Mr Wilson can we???
Nats
Sleep well!!!!!
Suz x |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 701
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 7:33 pm: |
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Thanks Nats...I appreciate the thought.
Yeah,Suzi..We hadda be careful when we had parties at my Grandmom's house back when all her kids were alive. You had to be especially careful when you smoked,especially in the awful August humidity in Philadelphia,when they had parties in that tiny row home. If you got too close to Cousin Zsa Zsa in that low cut backless outfit and whoosh !...flame on ! Singe City, USA...the humidity made the back hair stick out like porcupine needles and easier for them to ignite.... A real problem at one time for my tribe. |
K.Graham.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 11:30 am: |
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Ineresting post Leeroy.
Well put Glen Anderson. It might not really sound that rediculous. The murderer was not the mythical werewolf , but given the time, it is quite possible that this is exactly what he thought he was. Something to consider. |
AIP
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 2:19 am: |
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Mr. Brown, since when has Mr. A. P. Wolf had a gender change? |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 711
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 8:23 pm: |
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Hey AIP !
Umm..I believe the best way to answer that is to ask her. I have to admit that at one time,I was perplexed when someone told me that A.P. was a lady. It bugged me. I thought I knew everything. Turns out this was probably due to my own perception that writers who use initials, such as this J.K. Rowlings [ the Harry Potter author ] and S.E. Hinton [ the Outsiders,Tex,among other films and books ], instead of their first name are usually menfolk. I was wrong...for once.
But A.P. is a lady,AIP. And she'll kick our asses if we doubt it.
H.B.
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 712
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 9:42 pm: |
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Whoops....forgot to state that the two authors above are women. I used them to illustrate my point about Ms. Wolf.
Okay...that makes three times I was wrong. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2297
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 6:31 pm: |
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Could be four times, Howard. |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 717
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 6:55 pm: |
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Uh oh...when was the fourth,A.P.? |
Lindsey Millar
Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 437
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 10:33 pm: |
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My dear A.P...
All these years, and I honestly never knew! (Sorry, getting very much off topic here, I know.. I really and truly don't think it was a werewolf that killed Mary Kelly, nope, not at all - if that helps swerve us back on-topic for a minute.)
Heck, I always knew deep down inside that only a woman would appreciate Spanish brandy as much as you seem to, A.P. - and if you really are a bloke after all (Howie has never been completely believable, you understand - love him to pieces as I do, and ALWAYS will) just glad that you appreciate Spanish brandy as much as women do 
Now, people... back to the topic! That was just a very brief interlude on the finest brandies and the people that seem to enjoy them, you understand. And the total confusion that people can cause by the wearing of kilts..
Where in the world did we come up with MJK being killed by a werewolf?? The last - very last - werewolf that I knew of was killed most definitely in London during the mid-sixties (was there, and watched the film). Yes, his great-grandfather might possibly have been stalking Whitechapel during 1888 - but if you look very closely at the crime scene photos from the Mary Kelly murder (and I honestly try not to for the most part) her body seems only to show knife wounds. Hideous knife wounds, but knife wounds nonetheless.
'Nuff said from me on that part. A.P. continue to enjoy the Spanish brandy. (Me, I'd join you, but have been sticking to Pepsi for the past many months - but have never lost my appreciation for the other.)
Love,
Lyn
"When a man grows tired of London, he grows tired of life" (or summat like that)
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Lindsey Millar
Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 438
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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Dear Leeroy,
You're absolutely right - not at all any more ludicrous than Prince Albert, Lewis Carroll and the various others that have been thrown in our midst.
And a rather fun theory, I might add..
Love,
Lyn
"When a man grows tired of London, he grows tired of life" (or summat like that)
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Leeroy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 6:38 am: |
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Howdy,
If you zip on over to the Mary Kelly thread, under " High Resolution photo of Mary Kelly", have a look on High resolution. ZOOM in on her right leg, around the knee, just before her exposed thigh. That wound has NOT, I REPEAT, NOT been made by a knife. It has been made with a claw pulling down against her skin. The result is plainly visible, so please look. If it was not the mystical werewolf, as I have suggested, did her killer carry a mobile claw in has bag of tricks? Bye.
Thanks Lindsey - I like talking JtR, even if it is a bit far fetched. |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2778
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 6:38 pm: |
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LEEROY!!!!
DONT you START ABOUT THIS THERES WAY TOO MANY THREADS ON THIS AT THE MO!!!! .........Mind you this one has a certain charm!
LYN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tried to call ya tonite.....where you??????
Suzi xxxx |
Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 438
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 9:35 am: |
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Canines don't kill with their claws;that's for the more highly evloved feline species. Not that I'm mentioning any names
diddlesdiddlesdiddles
Mags
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2305
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 6:09 pm: |
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Maria
the essential difference is that felines have retractable claws, all except the cheeta, but the cheeta, and canines, do commonly use their very powerful claws to rip at flesh; and very highly developed canines such as the African hunting dog use their dew claws as weapons when bringing down their prey.
Certain dog breeds are able to both rip and grip with their claws, the Saluki, Belgian Groenedale and most other breeds associated with a long and pronounced snout.
The Belgian breed especially I believe would be able to kill with its claws, as can the Cheeta, whose claws are not retractable. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2199
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 6:22 pm: |
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Very interesting AP.and what an absolutely brilliant wealth of knowledge about all these wonderful animals
mind as Oscar once reminded us we humans are able to kill with just a kiss
... |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4694
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 6:33 pm: |
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I still don't see how dear old Larry Talbot had anything to do with the murders.
Robert |
