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esm
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 9:07 am: | 
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Hello,
just a few questions from a non-native-speaker, I hope some of you guys can help me out.
1. the Stride post-mortem:
what's the meaning of "extravasation"?
->"On removing the scalp there was no sign of extravasation of blood"
2. the Stride post-mortem:
what's the meaning of "congested" in the context:
->"The stomach was large and the mucous membrane only congested"
3. The sighting of Marshall
How would you translate/interpret the phrase
"You would say anything but your prayers."?
is it a warning? is it an unusual way to say: "You would say anything except the truth"?
4.
which person/author gave the 5 victims the name "canonical victims" first?
Help appreciated!
THX |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 822
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 6:23 pm: |
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Hi esm,
1. I don't know the medical definition of "extravasation" but I can take a pretty good guess. "Vas" is Latin for vessel, as in blood vessel. Extravasation then would be blood outside of the blood vessels, or bleeding. I presume the examiner was saying that there was no sign of internal bleeding.
2. "Congested" in general means clogged or impaired. Again, this is a medical use which I am not familiar with, but I suspect it refers to a minor abnormality (as opposed to a major illness) of the stomach.
3. "You would say anything but your prayers" sounds to me like a humorous jab or tease. Of course, it depends upon the context and the tone of inflection. I suspect the meaning is something like this: "You would not hesitate to lie in order to get what you want. You would say anything to get your way. Anything, except your prayers, that is (because only "good" people pray and you are certainly not a "good" person)." Again, I think this would have been spoken and taken in jest.
4. We discussed this recently on a different thread but I'm not sure that we came up with the answer.
Andy S. |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 621
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 9:38 pm: |
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From Stedman's Medical Dictionary:
Extravasate: To exude from or pass out of a vessel into the tissues, said of blood, lymph or urine. 2. the substance thus exuded . . .
Stride didn't have a bruise on her head or hematoma.
Congested: Containing an abnormal amount of blood . . .
I'm wondering if he is implying some kind of inflammation. If you bang your thumb with a hammer it swells and turns red because it fills with blood. I think he is referring to the mucous lining of the stomach. Maybe inflamed because of too much alcohol? |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1471
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:03 pm: |
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Hi esm
In terms of the William Marshall witness statement, you are correct in your interpretation of the phrase, "You would say anything but your prayers" that the man with Elizabeth Stride is stated to have said to her.
The statement appears to tell us that the man who said this to the victim was probably a religious man who was being accusatory in making the jibe to her in implying that she was a sinning woman who would say anything to get what she wanted, except her prayers.
esm, I hope this helps. Let us know if we can help you further with any other phrases with which you have difficulty. We are always glad to help.
Best regards
Chris George
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 824
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 1:43 am: |
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Chris,
I don't think this comment implies that the speaker was a religious man at all. In fact, it seems to me more of a mockery of prayer. But it all depends upon the context and inflection.
Although the speaker might have been religious, I don't think his statement implies it.
Andy S. |
Phil Hill
Chief Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 564
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 1:49 am: |
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My interpretation of the "You would say anything but your prayers", comment is quite different from those given above.
A client is supposedly making an arrangement with a prostitute for sex. What they will be doing is the exact opposite of saying your prayers - a carnal coupling rather than a spiritual conversation!!
Thus it is a joke.
At another level of meaning it could be a play on the idea that people then (as now) said their prayers before going to bed - and these two people will be doing the equivalent of "going to bed" together. But the woman won't be minded to say her prayers, she'll be too eager for what "jack" has to offer.
I would reconstruct the entire exchange to read something like:
She: "I'm a good girl I am, I says my prayers before I go to bed."
He: "If you knew what I had to offer, you'd say anything but your prayers!" Laugh.
Thus IMHO it has nothing to do with religious men or the truth - it's sexual innuendo.
All speculation of course, we cannot even know if the words were correctly heard, or (as Andrew has rightly observed0 what the tone of voice etc was.
Phil |
esm
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 5:52 am: |
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Hi all,
thank you very much for your helpful comments. Interesting that there are so many possilities for an interpretation of the phrase. In my point of view - ok, I'm a non-native speaker and my word probably doesn't weigh much - the suggestion Andrew made sounds to me most plausible.
However, as you said, nobody knows...
Thanks! |
Kelly Robinson
Inspector
Username: Kelly
Post Number: 155
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 1:20 pm: |
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Hi, esm. Since you mentioned that you're a non-native speaker I thought it would be helpful for you to know that "you would say anything but your prayers" is an odd phrasing to native speakers as well. You're not at any disadvantage on that one!
-K
"The past isn't over. It isn't even past."
William Faulkner
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Phil Hill
Chief Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 575
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 1:48 pm: |
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Kelly - it is an odd phrasing if we assume it as a complete sentence or idea.
But try this:
"You might be religious and pray for things you want. But you have only to ask for what I have to offer. So, if you really want what I have, you would say anything but your prayers."
I'm not saying that's what was said, it's just an exercise to show the phrasing can fit.
Personally I think the words were incomplete or misremembered; or accented in some way.
Phil |
allerteuerste
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 4:39 pm: |
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hi, esm, could it be you - eastsidemap????
anyway, i agree with phil, i´ve always thought this odd phrasing was intended as kind of sexual foreplay, at least the "client" might have thought / felt so. |
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