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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1848
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 5:41 pm: | 
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If my memory serves me correct we never did establish exactly what was at 29 Aldgate High Street, outside of which Eddowes was said to be impersonating a fire engine on the day of her arrest for drunkeness?
I do know the 'Blue Boar Inn' has been mentioned before in connection with Aldgate High Street in that general area, but I have recently found a freehold sale from 1836 offering the Blue Boar Inn for sale inclusive of numbers 30 and 31 Aldgate High Street where the Blue Boar is described as 'in front of the preceding premises', meaning numbers 30 and 31.
Does that mean the Blue Boar Inn was number 29, Aldgate High Street?
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1678
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 6:04 pm: |
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Hi AP
when I visited the Whitechapel Foundry and looked through a back door at some bells in the yard I noticed there was a sign up ,from many years back, by the look of its corners and shape.It said Whitechapel High Street.[I think I mentioned this on another post].This sign was placed parallel to the front entrance which is now 32 Whitechapel High Street but this was the back part of the building.When I pointed this out to the lady working in the shop she nodded and said that the numbers did change.However I still thought it odd because I had never seen parallel streets called by exactly the same name.
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David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 768
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 6:56 pm: |
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Hi A.P.
Nos. 28 and 29 Aldgate High Street were a single combined space using the address 28 Aldgate High Street. In 1888, it was a furniture shop run by Henry Phillips (he had been there since about 1870 and would still be there in 1891, so presumably he was there in 1888). See this thread for Chris Scott's census information and a post of mine reproducing Viper's brief rundown of the history of "Phantom No. 29" 
Cheers,
Dave
(Message edited by oberlin on March 13, 2005) |
George Hutchinson
Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 416
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 8:11 pm: |
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Hi AP - always wanted an opportunity to converse with you!
As you will probably know, I have worked out the site of 29 today is pretty much where the sign saying '33' is outside the current office block - only there a few hours ago!
I won this on eBay a couple of weeks ago, and I hope it is of interest. Now if something from 29 should turn up, I would be REALLY keen!
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4234
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 5:04 am: |
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This is from the "Times" 14th April 1883 :
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4235
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 6:09 am: |
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Here's the other Aldgate - Aldgate High St 1895 showing Adkin.
Robert |
George Hutchinson
Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 418
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 6:25 am: |
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Hi Robert -
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Aldgate itself isn't the relevant road here I don't think. I am sure it all relates to Aldgate HIGH STREET, just as Nats has referred above to WHITECHAPEL High Street, Aldgate High Street being between the 2 though fundamentally the same road of course (Aldgate being a short road from Leadenhall Street to Dukes Place and Aldgate High Street adjoining that and running to the east to become Whitechapel High Street - all 3 roads, though fundamentally the same one, having their own numbers - thus 28 Aldgate and 32 Whitechapel High Street have nothing to do with 29 Aldgate High Street. The TIMES cutting above proves this by saying it (Aldgate) adjoins Mitre Street, whereas 29 Aldgate High Street was beyond Aldgate tube station and almost opposite the later bus station.
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious!
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4236
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 6:42 am: |
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Yes Philip, the first item relates to the "hotel Aldgate" mentioned in David's link, and the second is presumably "our" Aldgate (High Street).
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1849
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 1:20 pm: |
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Thanks so much for clearing that up, everybody.
I certainly didn't intend to step on any toes or impinge on others research... and I was not able to find the old thread, despite looking in every orifice!
So my apologies for being a daft old sod.
As Philip points out, unless one is actually on the ground there can be a good deal of confusion in regard to this particular area of Whitechapel, so thank heavens we have a few troops on the ground out there.
The bill of sale from the Tobacco Manufacturer was interesting too, Philip, for it still uses the seal of the Blue Boar Inn in 1894.
Isn't their other logo the modern logo of B.A.T.?
Thanks for all that. |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 769
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 1:42 pm: |
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Hi A.P.
"unless one is actually on the ground there can be a good deal of confusion in regard to this particular area of Whitechapel"
You're telling me! Between the ghost of old 29, Aldgate High Street and Aldgate Street, it's a wonder PC Robinson was able to find Kate in the first place. It's typical that out of the whole street, she'd be in front of the difficult address.
Cheers,
Dave
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2201
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 2:08 pm: |
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Gawd AP!........... LAWD LUV us I say!!!!!! Last time I was there about 3 weeks ago the 'site' of 29 is SPURIOUS shall we say....think it is Aldgate High St tho.....didnt get that fire engine moment in Whitechapel High St!!!!!!
Suzi
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2202
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 2:10 pm: |
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Get em in a lot of other places though......and we still have a sooooooper Safeways here!!!!!!!
Love (slurp!)
Suzi |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1789
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 8:50 pm: |
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Hi AP
This extract from 1861 census may be of interest:
1861 Census
29 30 And 31 Aldgate High Street St Katherine Cree Aldgate London London City
Transcription details for: 29 30 And 31, Aldgate High Street, St Katherine Cree, London
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09 Piece: 229 Folio: 22 Page: 11
Reg. District: London City Sub District: London City North East
Enum. District: 10 Ecclesiastical District:
Parish: St Katherine Cree City/Municipal Borough: London
Address: 29 30 And 31, Aldgate High Street, St Katherine Cree, London
Name Relationship to Head of H'hold Condition Sex Age Profession/Occupation, Disability Where Born
LONSDALE, Henry Son Unmarried M 18 Drapers Assistant City Of London
FREDERICK, George Assistant Unmarried M 36 Drapers Assistant Whitby Yorkshire
ELDRIDGE, Allen Assistant Unmarried M 33 Drapers Assistant Battle Suffolk
..., William Assistant Unmarried M 29 Drapers Assistant Toppesfield Essex
HENNE, Jacob Assistant Unmarried M 23 Drapers Assistant Grimston Northumberland
FUSON, John Assistant Unmarried M 19 Drapers Assistant Wickham Bishops Suffolk
WORTHINGTON, Henry ... Unmarried M 19 Drapers Assistant Haxton Middlesex
..., George ... Unmarried M 14 Drapers Assistant Sudbury Suffolk
THAIR, Thomas Porter Unmarried M 18 Porter London Middlesex
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George Hutchinson
Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 427
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 9:16 pm: |
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Robert Clack, we need you!!!
I found this smashing (expensive) item on eBay tonight. Aldgate High Street, 1871. Now, THE TURK'S HEAD public house is clearly seen here. It is a long shot, but it is possible we might finally have a view of #29 here if it is the correct side of the street. I can't pick out any landmarks to tell us.
Any enlightenment?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1866
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 1:17 pm: |
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Thanks Chris & Philip
Both those items are of vital interest, the census information would seem to indicate that with so many drapers about 29 Aldgate High Street was a Drapery at that time... rather than a furniture store/warehouse.
The postcard is a real find, I'm going to copy it and see if I can't study the detail.
My sincere thanks chaps! |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1795
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 1:44 pm: |
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Hi AP
Here is the entry from 1861 showing address and names:
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Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 514
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 6:06 pm: |
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Hi
The Turks Head was on the South side of Aldgate High Street near the junction with the Minories.
This is the only picture I have which covers the relevant part of Aldgate High Street, taken c1905. The location of No 29 is roughly where the Telegraph? poles are on the roof tops.
Just a note which may or may not be connected. "The Three Nuns" hotel on the left is where Albert Bachert in early October 1888, claimed to have met a mysterious man who had a hatred of prostitutes.
Rob |
George Hutchinson
Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 430
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 7:35 pm: |
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Rob - WOW WOW WOW!!! You told me this wasn't very good quality; it's GREAT!
It is also a great relief to know that I have exactly the right spot when I stop with my tour groups to relate the Robinson tale and make two of them read out the exchange between CE and Hutt.
For people who go to the area, 29 was pretty much exactly where the large free-standing illuminated sign is saying '33' today.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 762
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 2:47 pm: |
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A curious one here maybe needing the ministrations of a certain Mr Clack.
I bought this original photo of Aldgate Bus Station dated 10th October 1959 but I can't get my bearings.
Which side of this shot is Aldgate High Street - or is it behind the photographer?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 659
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 3:12 pm: |
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Hi Phil,
I think, but I am not 100% certain. Aldgate High Street is behind the photographer.
Rob |
John Savage
Chief Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 501
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 8:16 pm: |
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Hi Philip,
Aldgate bus staion was on the opposite side of the road to the Underground stations. I am afraid I cannot remember trolley buses there, but the number 25 bus (pictured)used to run from Ilford to Aldgate and then on, I think to Victoria.
I would guess that the picture was taken from the side of the road were the tube stations are.
Rgds
John |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 765
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 4:10 am: |
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Hello John. Thanks for that - I have no problem with the location, it is the direction I'm unsure of. I had always thought that it was The Minories running off on the right hand side, but of course, it COULD be Aldgate High Street as well. I think it is going to need me going around with the photo to check the line of the roofs, presuming they are still there. Now, when could I do that....? Hmm... tomorrow!
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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John Savage
Chief Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 503
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 10:30 pm: |
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Hi Philip,
I would guess that it is either Minories or Mansell Street running off the right hand side. As I recall the bus upon which I used to travel came along Whitechapel Road and turned left into the bus station. This was way back in the 1950's and of course the area has changed somewhat since then, so good luck in checking out the roof lines.
Rgds
John |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 767
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 8:14 pm: |
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I HAVE THE ANSWER!
Today before the WS1888 meeting I went up to the area with my camera and the photograph.
The location is indeed as I had suspected - from Aldgate High Street with The Minories running down the right hand side.
Firstly, I noticed a curious thing. The dark brick building actually on the site on the right has had a lot added to it in the last 46 years - yet up close there is nothing obvious at all. It is the same dark colouring, no obvious joins, but compare the 2 shots and see how different it is.
Notice two other things - firstly, how incredibly unrecognisable the whole place has become in just 46 years, and secondly what the only touchstone building is - in the distance there is a white building in The Minories; the only one which is largely unaltered from that time.
 
The riddle is solved.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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