| Author |
Message |
    
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1826
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 2:02 pm: | 
|
A series of destructive fires at tea warehouses in the Whitechapel area during 1886 and 1887 have recently caught my attention:
Leman Street January 1886
Mill Lane April 1886
Bishop’s Gate Avenue November 1887
Wood Street (month unknown) 1887
And then I got to thinking that Eddowes was murdered outside a tea warehouse, and that on her way to that murder she was supposedly imitating a ‘fire engine’ outside 29 Aldgate High Street.
Did she think our Jack was a ‘Fire Starter’ before he started the big fire?
That’s fast and loose but the fires are of interest.
|
Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 334
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 2:52 pm: |
|
To add to our list of "if only"-- if only they had been able to take pictures of the crowds at fires and compare them.
We (meaning you) should also be looking at peeping TOM  and petty theft/housebreaking behavior.
Mags
|
Carolyn
Sergeant
Username: Carolyn
Post Number: 23
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 3:46 pm: |
|
AP,
It might be a very small detail but I was also thinking about the fire in Mary Kelly's room.
Maybe he really liked seeing things burn?
Carolyn |
Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 338
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 4:26 pm: |
|
Good idea, Carolyn. It's as good as any other I've heard.
Mags
|
Frank van Oploo
Chief Inspector
Username: Franko
Post Number: 534
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 5:09 pm: |
|
While we're on a roll: housebreaking and getting into Mary Jane's room? Hmmm...
But the fires are interesting indeed, AP. Is there anybody who could point out the locations of the streets where they took place?
Thanks,
Frank
"Every disadvantage has its advantage."
Johan Cruijff
|
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1828
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 5:23 pm: |
|
Thanks Folks,
I could probably point out the locations for you, Frank, if I could put the brandy bottle down.
The Bishop's Gate incident is probably the most interesting as they had two fires there in one day, and both were arson.
If you read the reports of the young London fire service, 1887 was a very bad year for fires in tea warehouses, there are more but I haven't been able to list them yet... but I will.
Sadly petty crimes are very hard to track down, though luck helps. Like today I found a useful lunatic living in Aldgate High Street who almost beat his mother to death with a hammer in 1887.
I don't think the really petty stuff will come up until the Old Bailey flushes its toilet. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4212
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 5:31 am: |
|
AP, shame about the Kearley and Tonge fire - 1894.
Unless of course the tea was very damp......
Robert |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 546
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 9:00 am: |
|
Forgive me for referring to profiling literature but I have read somewhere there is some kind of correlation between being an SK and being a firebug. I wrote to the London Fire Brigade years ago asking if there were any records left but they said no. Don't forget the docks fire the night of Nichols death. Either he could have started it or it started him (set him off) or both. I have stated before on these boards that I thought it a possibility that the blaze in MJKs room was not for light, not to destroy evidence, but an end in itself. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1830
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 12:37 pm: |
|
Or he might have used safety matches, Robert?
They wouldn't have issued him with anything else in Broadmoor.
I think Diana to be on the right track here.
Why look for a reason for a fire when the fire was the reason?
I'll check out a few more fires in the meantime, especially the great dock fire on the night of Nichol's death. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1834
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 5:53 pm: |
|
I have not had much time, but the great London dock fire of 1888 was in fact two fires in two quite distinct warehouse complexes of the docks.
Although evidence exists that the first fire was so powerful it did ignite further buildings towards the city, the second warehouse complex was the other way inclined, and arson was suspected in both cases.
Two major fires in the docklands of London on one night is pushing anyone's luck.
I do note that the majority of warehouse fires in 1888 appeared to have begun on their fourth or fifth floor, and as the volatile machinery and fuel for them was located at a ground floor level one would expect a fire to start there.
This is nothing but it could be something. |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 548
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 7:50 pm: |
|
Besides saying that there was a correlation between fires and serial killing, I believe I recall the literature (some obscure pamphlet in the Houston Public Library read years ago. I think it was produced by the FBI.) stated that the majority of arsonists were disgruntled former employees. Suppose Kearley and Tonge fired JTR. He retaliates by setting fires and then the other part of his nuttiness takes over
(Message edited by diana on March 10, 2005) |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1835
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 2:02 pm: |
|
Just to say that I've slung my thoughts on this over to the 'Thomas Cutbush' thread, as I felt it was getting a little specific. |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2194
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 4:11 pm: |
|
AP
That fire on the night of Nicol's death....Hmm a big one and must have drawn more than a crowd I reckon..Especially as it allegedly caught onto other buildings......Gawd! that would have been a sight to see.........As,we know, fire watching was something of a hobby ,well kept ya warm!!!!.....odd that theres not a lot more of comments on this conflagration!
Just musing (as ever!)
Suzi
|
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2195
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 4:22 pm: |
|
Robert_
....GOSH what a match!!!!
COR ....Strike a light
...Strike me!!!
All as yet unknown Ripper Quotes!(all obviously Bryant and May Matchgirls Strike(!) related in 1888 I reckon!! 
Suzi |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4218
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 4:44 pm: |
|
Yes Suzi. On November 9th, the Ripper struck again.
Kelly was strikingly attractive.
And any doctor who operated like Jack would have been struck off.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1841
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 5:37 pm: |
|
No exact date for this one yet but it was around 1888:
'the destructive fire at the Monastery Bonded Tea Warehouse in Dock Street, Whitechapel,' |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1947
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 4:28 pm: |
|
'The Great Fires in London', January 1st 1891.
Everything was up in flames this time, perhaps someone was celebrating?
Tea warehouses included. |
