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Leanne Perry
Detective Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 125
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 3:40 pm: | 
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G'day Mark,
I thought someone would eventually notice that.
My birthday is the 21st of January, 21 . 1, or 1 . 21, depending on where you live. That's why I just put '22.
The important day was the 8th of January, so I put '9'.
LEANNE |
Leanne Perry
Detective Sergeant
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 126
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 3:46 pm: |
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G'day,
The 'extremely important date' was a day of a car accident that changed so much of my life.
LEANNE
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 73
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 2:49 am: |
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Hi Daneferline.
The other wound was described as a bayonet, or thin dagger type weapon.
Richard. |
danefirmin
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 10:34 pm: |
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lol. Of all the names I've been called ferline wasn't one of them. Maybe because I live in the bayous of Louisiana and noone is smart enought to use that word here?
A bayonet, really? Now that is very interesting. I assume you mean like one off of the end of a gun? In which case, if she were part of the JtR muders that would throw an intresting twist into things. I doubt someone would just carry a bayonet around with them even if for "protection." Which would indicate to me that he were 'planning' the murders ahead of time. I'm not sure if I can agree with that. I think it was done in the moment of rage and anger, atleast his first killing.
Another intresting question, Where would a common person get a bayonet from? Certainly they wouldn't have sold guns like that in those times. Even if they would have, would a poor person been able to afford a gun? Also, why only one stab with a bayonet? Why not finish her off with it. One idea is that he might have used the bayonet for a 'finishing kill' to finish her off. And then afterwards stabbed her repeatedly with the penknife to make sure she wouldn't get up. Either way, I see it as strange that someone could use a bayonet to kill a person, Where woudl they hold it? It's my understanding that the bayonet would slip onto the end of a gun, in which case that would make the end of it half-circled to fit the barroll. How could he have held that to thrust it into her chest? It doesn't quite make sense to me. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 79
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 3:10 am: |
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Hi Danefirmin,
Got the name right this time. I am sorry for my spelling.
With reference to a bayonet being used , this was only a reference made at the time that the main wound could have been inflicted by such a weapon, that is why the tower of london soldiers were interviewed, as Tabram often prostituted amongst uniformed men.
The weapon could have quite easily been a narrow long bladed knive.
Regards Richard. |
Karen
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 10:41 am: |
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Danefirmin,
My friends and I really enjoyed your mathematical explanation below of how you are Jack the Ripper:
"Dane = 15/5 = 3 (Interesting I think so)
Firmin = 42. 42/14 = 3. Oh my.
Now let's have a little more fun with 42. If you take the Square root of 42, that gives you 6.48 roughly. Then if you mutiply 6.48 by 42. (6.48*42)That gives you 272.16. THEN if you Divide 272.16 by 7 you get 38.88 which could also be rounded up (A common practice in math) to you guessed it, 39."
My thoughts, danefirmin, on why 39 would be an important number for Jack to use as a cutoff point for stabbing a victim, would be more about his O/C tendencies than numerology.
But who said I ever knew anything. Thanks all for an interesting discussion!
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Eric Smith
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 11:55 pm: |
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Hi everyone,
I read this thread and after the terrorist attacks in the US on Sept 11th, a lot of talk floated around about the number 11. Eleven letters in many of the locations, flight numbers adding up to 11, etc. I got one of these emails with a note from my friend on the end. It reads as follows:
"It's bullsh*t" has 11 letters too. |
Wallis
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 5:56 pm: |
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Good way to sum it up |
Randy Scholl
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 12:48 am: |
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Regarding the "39 theory" one interesting tidbit occurs to me. The day after Tabram's murder was 8/8/1888, which is odd enough in itself, but if you add all the 8s and subtract the 1 (because it's like, you know, a different number) the total becomes... 39!
Scary, eh?
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Vincent
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 10:44 am: |
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Yes, truly horrifying. |
Shannon Christopher
Police Constable
Username: Shannon
Post Number: 6
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 4:50 am: |
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Randy, here is a bit of fun with the numbers:
Polly Nichols was 43 at the time of her death and she died on August 31st, the 243rd day of the year. Annie was 45 at the time of her death and she died on September 8th, the 251th day of the year. Liz was 45 at the time of her death and Kate was 46, both dying on September 30th, the 273rd day of the year. Mary Kelly was 25 at the time of her death and she died on November 9th, the 313th day of the year, so...
Polly (243 + 43) 286
Annie (251 + 45) 296
Liz (273 + 45) 318
Kate (273 + 46) 319
MJK (313 + 25) 338
--------------------
Grand total 1557
The Square root of 1557 is 39
Shannon |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 249
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 4:32 pm: |
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Hi Shannon,
Now Shannon , that is scary, was the ripper a maths teacher?.
My admiration for that effort,although it surely has to come into the realms of coincedence, does it?....
Richard. |
Shannon Christopher
Sergeant
Username: Shannon
Post Number: 14
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 4:46 pm: |
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Richard, as you can see sometimes in the middle of the night (I work the late shift) I have way too much free time on my hands, and since I am sitting at a computer monitor anyway... well you can see where that is headed. In response to your question, no I doubt the killer had much of an education at all. Cant see where higher math comes into play when you have nothing to do but cart fish from place to place all day, unless you count the steps from the dock to the market, multiply it by the weight of the crate, subtract for the amount of ice evaporated in the sun and realize that by the time you reached your destination the average crate now has a weight of 39 pounds, and you have taken a total of 39 steps down the plank, another 39 across the dock to the costermonger’s cart, for which you were paid 3p 9d for a days work... Guess you can find the #39 in any part of their life if you look hard enough... (I am only kidding about all the 39s)
Shannon
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 251
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:09 pm: |
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Hi Shannon,
I Still have admiration , for your enterprise, of course any number can be found if searched, but being in the betting odds profession, I Would say the following are a huge huge coincedence.
Tabram aged 39 years .
stabbed 39 times.
Nichols killed 31st of the 8th month.
Chapman killed 8th sept[+ above=39]
Stride+ Eddowes killed 30th of the 9th month.
Eddowes killed 30th Kelly killed 9th.
39 days elapsed from Eddowes/Stride- Kelly.
She was killed 26 Dorset street in room 13= 39
Barnett moved in with Kelly 9th April 87 left [ 30th october 88]
He left her on the 30th , she was killed on the 9th.
She was killed on the same day that is the 9th the day he moved in with her.
The word Jewes. if taking the alphabet as a=1 etc. spells out 78 divide by two [ double event]=39
taking the victims names as Tabram ,Nichols, chapman, long Liz, eddowes. kelly. we have a total of 39 letters.
And last but not least,your ages and days of the year square rooted =39.
Coincedence, some mayby but surely not all, my odds complimation, would be out of control.
Regards Richard.
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Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 805
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:15 pm: |
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Hi, surely 39x39=1521.
Robert |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 253
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:31 pm: |
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Hi Robert.
I feel thoughly ashamed that I did not check such simply maths, I should be sacked from my job instantly, odds compiler indeed?.
Shame on you Shannon, for trying to fool an Inspector, but my guv Robert soon caught you out.
Seriously . there is still a lot of points made about the 39, to warrant intrest.
Richard. |
Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 808
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:50 pm: |
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Hi Richard
Another thing is, if there were 12 other addresses in the Court, then the numbers 1 to 12 added up come to 78 = 2x39.
Plus (though this would have been too late to affect Joe) if I remember rightly, Chris found that in the 1891 census number 26 and 13 room had been collectively turned into three 13 rooms, which is still 39 but with a triple dose of bad luck!
Robert |
Shannon Christopher
Sergeant
Username: Shannon
Post Number: 15
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 7:29 pm: |
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Robert, technically the square root of 1557 is 39.4; however, as a whole number it falls to 39.
Shannon |
Alan Sharp
Police Constable
Username: Ash
Post Number: 10
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 8:12 pm: |
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Well based on that a=1 up to i=9 then l=1 again thing then my full name (including the middle one) Alan William Sharp = 75, 7+5=12, 1+2=3 meaning I am a 3, which we have already figured out is the Ripper's number and, guess what, I'm 39! That confirms it, I'm the Ripper too! |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 256
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 5:26 am: |
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Hi,
Shannon I can see that although you are not one hundred per cent accurate, it is the nearest to a whole number, fair play.
Robert.
Another strange angle, this seems to indicate a possibility that the perpetrator was extremely familar with Millers court,if so taking every pointer into consideration, it could implicate Mccarthy somewhat...
I Hope not as Leanne and myself will have to rewrite five months work !.
Richard. |
Shannon Christopher
Sergeant
Username: Shannon
Post Number: 19
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 5:34 am: |
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Richard, why rewrite? After all, Joe lived there too... given that he lived there for 8 months and was unemployed for the last couple, he had plenty of time to learn every nook and cranny of the court.
Shannon |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 257
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 5:41 am: |
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Hi Shannon,
I Was not serious about that last sentence, I Would not swop the good work achieved by leanne and myself to date, implicating Mccarthy. you are right I would have thought Barnett knew every nook and cranny of that run down decripid place.
Richard. |
Rodney Gillis
Police Constable
Username: Srod
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 8:31 pm: |
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The significance of the number 39 is fascinating. I believe I have discovered the killer. The names match, the numbers match. Jack the Ripper was . . . Jack Benny. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 261
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 3:50 am: |
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Hi Rodney,
This could be the start of a huge number of suspects being named, Jack Benny?. He seemed to go on for ever, dont they say only the good die young, so a good suspect.
Seriously.
Dont you think the murder dates have any significance?. Especially when they go hand in hand with a lot of similar patterns,stabbed 39 times for instance. there is also a lot of coincedence around millers court, 26 room 13, the 12 other addresses calculating to 78 [ halved 39]
Thanks to Robert the word Jewes. = 78
divided by two [ double event=39] and for good measure 26 dorset street x3 =78 and 13 millers court x6 =78 . I know it appears that we are all playing with numbers, but everything fits, and remember just one number out, would cancel out everything.
I believe our jack was obsessed with that number, and although insane to a degree, was certainly clever.
Richard.
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Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 822
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 7:57 am: |
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No, it couldn't have been Jack Benny. He wouldn't have had the time to kill all these women - he'd have been too busy trying to drive their price down from fourpence to threepence.
On second thoughts, though : the little black bag - couldn't have been a violin case, could it?....
Robert
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Mark Andrew Pardoe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 108
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 6:13 pm: |
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Perhaps there were 39 Jack the Rippers. They all travelled around in a London General horse bus.
Cheers, Mark |
Rodney Gillis
Police Constable
Username: Srod
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 8:15 pm: |
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Richard
I hope you did not take offense with my attempt at levity. I more than most realize my limitations and while I don't believe the number 39 has significance, I realize that there are those that do and far be it of me to try to prove them wrong.
Robert
Good point about the violin case. Sort of gives new meaning to Jack's phrase, "Now . . . Rochester, cut that out!"
Rod |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 7:45 pm: |
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I wonder if all theses talks about numbers will
have anyone think that crazy Lewis Carroll theory
more of a possibilty. I remember that Carroll was
a great mathamatician and obsessed with numbers
like 42 and 3. This thread reminded me of that Richard Wallace book. Carroll is not my favorite suspect in the least but number significance does
seem to provide a very tiny bit of circumtancal
evidence |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1251
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 12:18 pm: |
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Hi Guys,
This idea has perplexed me all day, I Believe that Chris Scott found that 39 Dorset street was a coal merchants, although we have no evidence that it was a concern in 1888.
My point is According to The Times November 10th 88, McCarthys first statement clearly says , 'The deseased came to live with a man called Kelly a Coal porter'.
Obviously McCarthy was not sure that the man was infact Barnett at that stage, but I am wondering would it not have been possible for Barnett to have worked for the Business at 39 Dorset street, and he was infact sacked from that position late summer?.
If he believed that the sacking was the result of Marys return to prostitution, he may have blamed Number 39 as the start of all his problems.
Of course we have to determine that number 39 Dorset street was a coal merchants at the relevant time for all of this to be plausible.
But we can not discount Mccarthys statement to the press, especially the Times, that he was a coal porter around March 88, therefore it is entirely possible that it was from that position he was sacked.
Just a intresting thought.
Regards Riichard. |
Phil Hill
Sergeant
Username: Phil
Post Number: 13
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 12:44 pm: |
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I'm afraid that referring to some coincidental/artificial number and trying to work things out from there is a recipe for disaster. Crime might happen like that in a Poirot novel, but NOT surely in real life.
We are talking coincidence here, nothing more.
On this basis numerology would give you the Ripper's name by extrapolation. Or maybe it was done by PC 39 - has that been explored?
I'm afraid I cannot take this seriously.
Sorry,
Phil |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1252
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 2:44 pm: |
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Phil,
Fair play, but did not the Zodiac killer New york, enquire into the bithdays of prospective victims before dispatching them, in order to follow the obsession in his crazed mind.
There has to always be a time when two many coincedences become a reality.
Richard. |
Phil Hill
Sergeant
Username: Phil
Post Number: 16
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 3:11 pm: |
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There has to always be a time when two many coincedences become a reality.
Does there? I wonder whether a statistician would agree?
I was interested in Ley Lines for a while many years ago. The argument that there were too many points in an alignment for them to be an accident or coincidence seemed overwhelming. Until statisticians showed conclusively that even for random points, the alignments were well within the bounds of coincidence.
There again, closer analysis showed that some of the points were not as accurately fitted to the lines supposedly running through them as had seemed to be the case.
So, taking the number 39 as the example - what sort of a man/group works on such a basis? What was his motive? How would he have researched his victims? Can you prove that all the numbers worked in that day (ie street numbering has changed)?
Sorry, I just think this is the sort of idea that gets Ripper-studies a universally bad name. Pardon my frankness.
Phil |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1253
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 3:22 pm: |
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Phil,
I am simply taking everything into account, and trying to make sense of a lot of coincedences, of course they may be just that.
I can see no problem for a killer determined to kill a certain prostitute, or a whitechapel prostitute [ that kelly knew well or even by sight] on a certain night.
They were creatures of habit and the majority of them were selling there bodies nightly.
It is not my intention to give Ripper studies a bad name by this sort of speculation, it is simply my own personal believe.
Regards Richard. |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 465
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 4:26 pm: |
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I have read over this thread, and while I don't agree with the 39 theory, I think Richard deserves some plaudits here. I have read post after post ridiculing it and yet he has not lost his temper or said ugly stuff or flamed. He has even been willing to take it good humoredly and laugh at himself. How many others can say the same? |
Phil Hill
Sergeant
Username: Phil
Post Number: 18
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 5:15 pm: |
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I do NOT intend to attack the poster for a moment - just the idea. That's what we are here to discuss, isn't it?
I'll butt out of this thread, as it's not my thing. But no offence meant, sincerely,
Phil |
Jfripper
Sergeant
Username: Jfripper
Post Number: 15
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:12 pm: |
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Hi all,
Like Phil, this is not my thing, but not strong reoccuring number/place in the JTR murders is No. 35 Dorset Street. Coincidence??
Just my tuppence worth.
Cheers,
Michael |
Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 473
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 11:15 am: |
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Hi Richard and Phil,
"There has to always be a time when two many coincedences become a reality."
"Does there? I wonder whether a statistician would agree?"
I discuss the topic of statistics in my "Connecting the Dots" article in the October 2004 issue of Ripper Notes. It is also available to see here on this site. You can click on the Dissertations link in my signature to find it.
It doesn't deal specifically with the 39 theory, but it does use mathematical examples to show how things that look like extremely statistically unlikely events can and do happen by pure chance.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
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Kane Friday
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 1:15 pm: |
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Hello Richard,
Its funny you should mention "Coal Porter",
as I was toying with the possible connections between the following victims and titles:
In Chapman's case: "Don't fence me in"
In Jack's case:"In the still of the night"
Stride on the "Pricess Alice": "I get a kick out of you"
Barnett struggling with the spring lock: " I want to be a Yale boy"
And finally Carrie brown:"Brush up on your Shakespeare"
Hmmmm. there has to be something in it.
Regards,
Kane Friday.....39 yrs old. |
A. J.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 7:38 am: |
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Morn’n to ya all, (i'am back)
Mmm…very fascinating, I too in my yet to be published research on JTR have been confronted by strings of coincidences too numerous to be accidental! But surely one can not solely assume in hindsight that the Ripper was following a pattern of 39 - what was the point or the purpose? - what did he intend to ultimately achieve? - plus as far as I see it the so called reoccurrence of the number 39 is none more revealing than learning the secret of the nine times table! Perhaps if one is inclined to believe in such dynamically connected coincidences, would also prefer to consult astronomical charts? What I mean to say is that perhaps the connection was not of the Ripper’s own design or intention, but rather because he himself fell victim to some extremely cosmic alignment - but did it, or has it proved to be working in the Ripper’s advantage? I’am sorry but I must reiterate “what was the point?”
Mildly interested,
as your forever faithful servant, Jacunius. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1257
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 12:56 pm: |
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Hi Guys,
I am getting the impression the vast majority of you take the 39 aspect as a laughable suggestion, my point has always been a lot of killers[ multiple] work to a pattern that gives them a satisfaction, indeed if the killer was a black magic member or intrested in the occult he would have concentrated on 3/13 for they were considered the most favourable numbers, of course the two multiplied =39.
I Have gathered together a mass of coindences that have direct bearing with this case, that =39 they are not made up trifle but actually up front facts.
As these Coincedences.. have direct lines to my personal suspect , i will not disgard my opinions easily.
Regards Richard. |
Phil Hill
Sergeant
Username: Phil
Post Number: 23
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 5:11 pm: |
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But that's the problem Richard. Sophistry is dangerous. Which came first, suspect or number? |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1260
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 4:20 am: |
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Hi Phil,
To be honest the numbers did, i noticed right from the begining that the murder dates had a pattern.
Regarding suspect, i originally had a theory that Kelly and Barnett worked together, but my original choice of Barnett was the grave spitting[ highly frowned upon] alleged incident, which had me originaly drawn towards him.
And that opinion has never wavered ,only strengthened.
He had the motive, he had the opportunety,there is a lot of evidence that suggests he was the man responsible for Kellys death, i happen to believe he was actually the Ripper'.
Regards Richard.
|
A. J.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 7:05 pm: |
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Phil,
My sentiment exactly!
Richard,
I couldn’t agree with you more, in fact I won’t pretend to have not become associated myself with other reoccurring coincidences that happen to plague this case. But looking in retrospect one must first see how these 39’s complete an understandable pattern - probably the domino effect could explain this better? Instead of packing a theory with 39’s of illogical sequence I assume you have found different - likening to some mystical key or formula perhaps? I do suppose it does depend on who your suspect is, and in what capacity he relates to the case? Would I be wrong to guess that your research like many others around the number 39 began with the stabbing of Tabram? Theories naturally fall apart when it becomes obvious they have not taken various other factors into consideration like A: Tabram may not be a victim & B: Two people may have stabbed her (and I doubt they were counting!) Of course I am sure many people here could find some 39’s in amongst their own favourite suspects - I guess the year 1839 must also be important! Basically the 39 theory at the moment just seems to lack any real connection with the case as a whole - just a randomly selected occurrence in support of an uncredited suspect! Sorry Richard I need more enlightenment.
Faithfully bewildered,
Jacunius. |
Steven Moore
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 3:09 pm: |
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Interesting work Richard.
I think it's probably a coincidence but I wonder if there was any other unsolved murders around this time on dates with a combination adding to 39. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1269
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |
|
Hi guys,
Let me explain[ sorry Glenn/Robert] how i came to this 39 theory originaly.
Way back in the late sixties, i saw a consistant pattern in the murder dates. using only the known four victims ie , Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes, Kelly
that actually were ripped open.
Nichols was killed on the 31st of the 8th Month, eddowes was killed on the 30th of the 9th month, i then saw the pattern that Chapman was killed on the 8th of september, and 31[ Nichols]plus 8 =39,
Then as Eddowes was killed on the 30th [the 30[ Eddowes] and the 9 [Kelly] =39
It then dawned on me that Ada Wilson, was said to be 39years of age, and Tabram was the same, and she was stabbed a total of 39 times, 38 inflicted by a penknive type weapon.
I Thought then that it was intresting coincedence.
however over the last twenty years or so, since Barnett came more to the fray, i began to see intresting points that were related to him personally that corresponded with the same number.
The day he started to live with Mary, the 9th, and the day he walked out on her the 30th, the fact that he walked out on the 30th and she was killed on the 9th, the fact that she was killed on the same day of a month that he started to live with her.
Also the strange coincedence that she lived in a room numbered 13, address 26 Dorset street.
I realized then that if one added up the surnames of Tabram, Nichols, chapman, long Liz, Eddowes. Kelly, one got a total of 39 letters.
I should note here that i used the Long Liz name as that was what she was known as in the area by everyone who knew her.
I truely believe that the killer worked to a pattern insenced by what the number 39 meant to him, for instance he may have like in Black magic cults considered 3x13 as a form of protection as it is known that these two numbers are favoured by the occult.
As i have mentioned before on these boards if he was a religious man, he might have seen the 39th psalm significant, or if in the case of Barnett, he may well have been sacked from employment at 39 dorset street[ possibly a coal merchants at that period] and there is evidence that in the spring of 88, he was working as a coal porter.
Whoever the killer was , that is the outline why i find the thirty nine theory fascinating and mayby relevant in this mystery.
Regards Richard.
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Phil Hill
Sergeant
Username: Phil
Post Number: 49
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 1:54 pm: |
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But Richard, Eddowes was known by various names, and Chapman as Siffey or Sivvey - so how can we rely on any sum contrived from the number of letters in their combined surnames?
Phil |
Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 480
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 2:14 pm: |
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Hi Phil,
"so how can we rely on any sum contrived from the number of letters in their combined surnames?"
Obviously we can't, because if we do it comes to 38...
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
Profile Email Dissertations Website
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1273
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 2:38 pm: |
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Hi Dan,
Please explain to us why them names albeit other names are sometimes used add up to 38.
Tabram=6
Nichols=7
Chapman=7
Eddowes=7
Long Liz=7
Kelly=5
Surely 4x7=28+11=39
Obviously a reply will be forthcoming.
Richard. |
Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 481
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 4:08 pm: |
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Hi Richard,
"Long Liz" is not a surname. Add the surnames up and you get 38.
Yes, granted, if you add up whichever versions of the names you pick and choose from so you can force it to come up with 39 then you do get 39, but you can do that for all sorts of numbers. It doesn't mean anything other than that you are perfectly fine with changing the rules in the middle to get the answer you wanted.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
Profile Email Dissertations Website
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Lindsey Millar
Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 210
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 7:15 pm: |
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Richard,
Forgive me, but I have to agree with Dan here.
Guess I just don't see that 39 connection.
But, I'm not out to get you, I promise! Just stating what I see (or, rather, don't see..)
But I do believe that you heard a certain radio programme in 1972 (or thereabouts). So, I hope I'm not all bad!
Bestest,
Lyn
"When a man grows tired of London, he grows tired of life" (or summat like that)
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