| Author |
Message |
    
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1757
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 6:11 pm: | 
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Ok am prepered to be shot down in flames here!
BUT Pol had 'a jolly bonnet'.
Kate had a bonnet,close to her head a rather flash job,black straw green and black velvet
and Mary who never was to be seen in a hat had the remains of one smoldering in her grate
OK Don't know why but think the gift of a bonnet may have been an entrancing thing for a girl...as in 'see what a jolly' etc etc may have been a serious 'invite' out which may explain Kates disappearance during the afternoon
New Years Musing here
Suzi
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1265
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 9:10 pm: |
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Hi Suzi
The idea that Jack gave gifts is not a new one, and I think personally it might have happened. There is also the matter of red scarves or bandannas. Certainly to women who have nothing, a small gift could have meant a lot and have helped to allay the women's fears. That kind gentleman. . .
All the best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Phil Hill
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 2:42 am: |
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I thought this had been discussed elsewhere recently.
Frances cole also had two bonnets, as I recall, one worn and one pinned to her dress.
I don't think there is anything sinister here. Simply that secondhand bonnets ("new" to the person given it) were easily and cheaply re-trimmed. I suspect Polly had hers from a friend who had bought or been given a new one. Little would have been thrown away in the East End - hence the surprise that MJK's should have been burned.
Mary, it seems, preferred not to wear at hat. But as I have said elsewhere, it was not considered good manners in 1888 to be bareheaded - impractical too. So although Mary sometimes went bareheaded, she possessed and sometimes wore a hat too.
Just my thoughts,
Phil
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1767
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 2:13 pm: |
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Phil
Yes this of course the case...Mary allegedly chose to go bareheaded and was known for it....mind you bareheaded or not a present of a bonnet cant be a bad thing eh? Can always popit!
Also....most things on most threads are discussed elsewhere...thats the way we 'muddle' through here...picking our way between the bits and pieces we have., and making the most of em!
Suzi |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1232
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 2:23 pm: |
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Hi Suzi,
The funny thing is although Mary was said to prefer being hatless , she wore one on the eve of her death as Mrs prater saw her in one when she saw her before they went out for the evenings sessions.
Richard.[ Look what a jolly bonnet i got. Rings a bell] |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1771
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 3:40 pm: |
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What?????????????
Mrs Prater as far as I know lived above MJK and was woken by Diddles,Oh Murder etc etc...DONT recall them going out for any evening sessions!!!!...Jolly and Polly ring a bell to me tho!!!
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1772
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 3:46 pm: |
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Also Walter Dew....who knew her well by sight" remarked that she was good looking and 'paraded' around the district ....She never wore a hat,and she always wore a spotlessly clean apron'
Suzi |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1237
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 3:48 pm: |
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Hi Suzi,
According to Mrs Prater she met Mary at the entrance to millers court as they were both going out for evening activities, this was on the night of the 8th, she talked to Mary for a few minutes and observed she was wearing a jacket[ black velvet] and hat.
They exchange friendly conversation, and kelly called her by her known affection something like Pretty girl' [ this is not the actual words without looking it up] but something similar.
Richard. |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1773
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 3:53 pm: |
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Richard
Interesting................will look this up too
Suzi |
Lindsey Millar
Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 171
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 10:32 pm: |
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Richard,
Where are you coming up with this? About Mary wearing a hat.. I've never come across it before, so please point me in the right direction.
Much appreciated,
Lyn |
Nina Thomas
Inspector
Username: Nina
Post Number: 213
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 12:43 am: |
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Hi Richard,
This is new to me too.
Mrs. Prater didn't mention seeing Mary in her witness statement or inquest testimony.
You have me very curious.
Nina
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1240
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 3:42 am: |
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Hi Ladies,
The information comes from 'The Star' November 10th 88.
Mrs Prater told a Star reporter, that she had known the deseased since the previous July when she [ Prater] moved into the court, and that she lived over the top of her room.
She stated that she last saw the dead woman at 9pm on the thursday night at the end of the passage on to Dorset street, she mentions that she had 'Her jacket on, and a hat' she mentioned that she [ Prater] did not have a jacket or a hat.
On leaving Kelly said 'Good night my pretty' which was what she called me.
hope this helps girls..
Richard. |
Nina Thomas
Inspector
Username: Nina
Post Number: 214
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 9:37 pm: |
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Hi Richard,
Thanks for satisfying my curiosity.
It seems to me that Mrs. Prater could have made that statement to 'The Star' with hopes that some sympathetic soul would get her a hat and jacket.
Nina  |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1782
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 4:30 am: |
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Hi Nina
Good point 'eh!!..it pays to advertise!!!!Odd that despite its appearance in The Star,it seems to have eluded every other author to this point!
Suzi |
Nina Thomas
Inspector
Username: Nina
Post Number: 216
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 11:23 pm: |
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Hi Suzi,
I don’t believe that Mary wore a hat that night as Mary Ann Cox stated that when she saw Mary returning at about 12:00 she had no hat on. Yet, from the following it seems that she must have had a least one of her own.
Maria Harvey left a black crepe bonnet at Marys.
The remains in the fireplace were described as the charred rim and wirework of a woman’s felt hat.
Mrs. Maxwell at the inquest ‘By a juror: I did not notice whether deceased had on a high silk hat - if it had been so I would have noticed I think‘. Why would the juror ask if Mary had on a high silk hat?
Was there a high silk hat, a felt hat, and a black crepe bonnet?
Nina  |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1787
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 3:19 am: |
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Hi Nina,
Gosh! we go from no hats as a dead cert to having em in every possible style known to man!!!
I agree its likely that Mary did possess one of some descrption,but usually preferred to show off her undoubtedly impressive hair most of the time.
Love Mrs Maxwell's comment..'I would have noticed I think!'
Of course if a Top Hat could be discovered in Millers Ct..case closed!!!!
Suzi |
ex PFC Wintergreen
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 10:42 pm: |
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If Jack did give out bonnets as presents does this suggest that he was higher in economic status. If he was a poor man wouldn't he take the bonnets off them after he killed them or did he neglect to take them because of his psychosis or rage? |
