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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1640
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 5:44 pm: | 
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I have found the most incredible body-snatching case in London that I have yet come across, from the 1830's, where criminals have actually been murdering victims for local hospitals.
It is so lengthy that I'll post it on request.
It is a real lesson. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3696
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 6:24 pm: |
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AP, go ahead.
I believe that one of the quirks of our marvellous carefully thought-out system, was that it wasn't actually an offence to snatch a body, only the shroud etc (in which case it was theft). So if you stripped the body before taking it, you were OK.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1642
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 27, 2004 - 4:07 am: |
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Here you go, Robert, as I said it is a large document, but well worth the read, especially in regard to the medical and clinical understanding of the doctors and surgeons concerned in the case, showing that we should really tread carefully regarding the clinical aspects of the Ripper case.
There are one or two interesting references therein which I'm looking at... the Birdcage public house being one of them.
The police officer mentioned, John Wilson, is the same officer sharing a house with William Cutbush, surveyor.
Anyways, enjoy the read!
1831.
Original Text:
Second Middlesex Jury,
Before Lord Chief Justice Tyndal.
17. JOHN BISHOP, THOMAS WILLIAMS, and JAMES MAY, were indicted for the wilful murder of Carlo Ferarai, alias Charles Ferrier.
SECOND COUNT, stating it to be a certain male person, whose name is unknown.
MESSRS. ADOLPHUS. CLARKSON. and BODKIN conducted the prosecution.
WILLIAM HILL. I am porter at the dissecting-room at King's-college, Somerset-house. On Saturday, the 5th of November, about a quarter to twelve o'clock, the bell of the dissecting-room rang; I answered it, and found Bishop and May at the door - I knew them before: May asked if I wanted any thing - I said not particularly, and asked what he had got; he said a male subject: I asked him what size - he said it was a boy about fourteen years of age; I asked the price: he said twelve guineas - I said I could not think of giving that price for it; we did not care much about it, for we did not particularly want it, but if he would wait I would see Mr. Partridge, who is the demonstrator of anatomy; I left them, and told Mr. Partridge - he said he would see them; I went and told them to go round to the place appropriated for them, and when in that room Mr. Partridge joined them; they did not produce the body - there was a difference about the price at first; Mr. Partridge did not agree with them - he was talking with May in the room; May said he should have it for ten guineas - he went into the dissecting-room, leaving me with them; they asked me how it was to be, if we were going to have it - I went to Mr. Partridge, returned, and told them he offered nine guineas; May said he would be d - d if it should come in for less than ten guineas: he was tipsy at the time - May stood outside the door, for a necessary purpose; Bishop called me aside, and said, "He is drunk, it shall come in for nine guineas within half an hour" - whether May heard this I cannot say, but I think he must; they then left; May and Bishop returned the same afternoon, about a quarter-past two o'clock, in company with Williams and a person named Shields; they had a hamper - they came to the room appropriated for them; I was called - I went to the door, unlocked it, and to the best of my recollection the hamper was off the head of Shields, the porter; (I knew him as such) - all four persons stood round the hamper: it was on the ground; they all four came in - I told two of them to remain there: I could not let them through the body of the college - May and Bishop carried the hamper through into the other room, they opened it between from, and in it was a sack, containing the body in question; May turned it out of the sack very carelessly, as he was tipsy; I looked at it, and both May and Bishop observed that we could not have a fresher, or that it was a very good, one - I said Yes, it was certainly fresh; I observed that it was particularly fresh, and made some remarks upon it to myself. in consequence of which I went to Mr. Partridge; I asked the prisoners what the body had died with: they said they did not know, it was no business of mine or theirs - I cannot say which said so; it was said in the hearing of both.
Q. When the body was produced from the sack was it in such a form as it would he if it came from a coffin? A. No, the left arm was turned up stiff, and the fingers clinched - I went to Mr. Partridge, and detailed to him what I had seen, and what I thought; he returned with me to the room where the body was, but before that I had taken the prisoners into another room where there was a fire, and told them to wait there - after Mr. Partridge saw the body he went to the secretary - the prisoners remained by the fire; some of the students saw the body, and their suspicions were created - Mr. Partridge returned to the prisoners, showed them a 50l. note, and said he must get that changed and he would pay them; he had some gold in his purse, and Bishop said, "Give us what money you have got, and I will call on Monday for the remainder;" May said if the note was given to him he would get it changed - Mr. Partridge smiled and said, "Oh no!" and left them without giving them any money - they remained there; Partridge returned in a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes - he did not see them; Mr. Mayow came in with the Police, and they were all taken into custody - before that, as I left the room the body was in, Bishop said that when I paid them I was to give him only eight guineas, in the presence of Williams, and to give him the other guinea, and he would give me half a crown; I delivered the body to Rogers, also the hamper and sack - I accompanied them, and delivered the same body, hamper, and sack to Mr. Thomas, the superintendent; I know the body had not been laid out in a coffin, for there was no saw-dust about the head.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. The conversation you have detailed was with May and Bishop only? A. No, Williams was in the college, but not in the same room - he was present when the 50l. note was offered.
MR. RICHARD PARTRIDGE. I am demonstrator of anatomy at the King's-college. On Saturday, the 5th of November, about two o'clock, Hill made a communication to me, in consequence of which I went and looked at the body - the prisoners were not present, but Hill was: the external appearances were suspicious, which induced me to go to the Police - I observed the swollen state of the face, the blood-shot eyes, the freshness of the body, the rigidity of the limbs, and a cut over the left temple; the lips were swollen - no other circumstance attracted my attention; I did not observe the tongue particularly - I do not recollect whether I saw the prisoners before I went to the Police; I returned to the college, and showed May and Bishop a 50l. note - I found them near the stairs leading to the anatomical department; I proposed that change should be got for the note, with a view to detain them till the Police arrived - I more particularly observed the body on the fol
See originallowing day, Sunday, at the Police-station, Covent-garden, where it was in the possession of Mr. Thomas, the superintendent; Mr. Beaman and several medical gentlemen were with me - the external appearances were, the muscles were still flat, and rigid, though not so much so as the day before; there was a wound on the temple, which did not injure the bone - that was the only appearance of external injury; on the scull, beneath the scalp or bone there was some blood effused; on opening the body the whole contents of the abdomen and chest were found to be in a healthy condition - the stomach was full; before the chest and abdomen were examined, the scull was taken off, and the brain examined - that was perfectly healthy, as well as the spinal part; in cutting down to remove the bone which conceals the spinal part at the back of the neck, we found a quantity of coagulated blood within the muscles, and on removing the back part of the body canal, some coagulated blood was found laying in the cavity opposite the blood found in the muscles of the neck - there was blood uncoagulated within the rest of the spinal canal; the spinal marrow appeared perfectly healthy - these are all the remarkable appearances; I think these internal marks of violence were sufficient to produce death - I believe violence had been exerted to have the effect on the spinal cord.
Q. Must those appearances have been produced by some cause inflicted on the back of the neck? A. I believe so; I think a blow from a stick on the back of the neck would have caused those appearances, and think it would produce a rapid death, but perhaps not an instantaneous one.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. Upon the external examination you saw nothing to lead you to judge that he had come by a violent death? A.Nothing but suspicion - the blow over the temple did not cause death; I think the coagulation of blood at the back of the neck and the spinal marrow might produce it - I do not say positively that it did, it is my belief.
Q.Might not this have been caused by other means as well as by a blow - by pressure otherwise applied? A. I think not - I cannot conceive any thing but a blow would produce those appearances; if he had fallen it would have been a blow - it might have been done otherwise than by a blow with a stick; I do not think it could have been done by a strong pressure of the knee on the neck.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you observe any other circumstance whatever which could cause death? A. The heart was empty and the countenance flushed, now death has occurred, and only those appearances found afterwards.
COURT. Q. What do you infer from the heart being empty? A. I do not infer any thing from it, except that that accompained with blood-shot eyes, has been found in persons who have died suddenly, and evidently from no violence, but what is called a natural death - I am not aware that the appearances on the spinal cord would be found in persons dying a natural death; they could only be caused by violence, as far as I could judge.
MR. GEORGE BEAMAN. I live in James-street, Covent-garden, and have been a surgeon nine years - I am employed professionally by the parish of St. Paul, Covent-garden. I first saw this body on Saturday night, the 5th of November, about twelve o'clock - it appeared to have died very recently; the weather was very favourable for its preservation - I should say it had not been dead more than thirty-six hours; the face appeared swollen, the eyes full, prominent, and blood-shot, the tongue swollen and protruding between the lips - the teeth had been extracted; the gums were bruised and lacerated, portions of the jaw broken out with the teeth, and at that time there was appearance of blood having issued from the gums - I should think the teeth had been taken from the gums at most within two or three hours after death; I examined the throat, neck, and chest very particularly - no marks of violence were apparent; I made no further observation at that time - I observed a wound over the left eye-brow, about three quarters of an inch long, through the skin to the bone- I pressed that part to ascertain if there was a fracture, and a small quantity of blood oozed from the wound.
Q. Could that blood have oozed from the wound if it had been made after death, by carelessly tumbling it out of the sack? A. I think it might; it was a red coloured bloody serum, not coagulated - I saw the body again about two o'clock on Sunday afternoon, but made no further examination then; the limbs were stiff - they were very stiff on the Saturday night, but not so stiff on the Sunday; I think the body had never been laid out - it was placed in an irregular position, on a board, near the station-house, in the church-yard; it was not opened when I saw it on Sunday, but soon after eight o'clock that evening I further examined it, assisted by Mr. Partridge and other gentlemen - I first, with a sponge and water, cleaused the neck and throat very particularly, but found no scratch nor any mark of violence; I then removed the skin covering the scull, and on the top of the scull we detected a patch of blood about the size of a crown - this appearance must have been produced by a blow given during life; the brain was next examined, and its appearances were perfectly healthy, as described by Mr. Partridge - the body was then turned, for the purpose of examining the spinal marrow, and on removing the skin at the back part of the neck, I should think from three to four ounces of coagulated blood were found among the muscles; that blood must have been effused while the subject was alive - on removing a portion of the spine to examine the spinal marrow a quantity of coagulated blood was laying in the canal, which, by pressure on the spinal marrow, must cause death - there was no injury to the bone of the spine, nor any displacement; all these appearances would follow from a blow with a staff, stick, or heavy instrument - the chest and the cavity of the belly were minutely examined; there was no disease - I should think there was about an ounce of blood in the spinal marrow; the intestines were perfectly healthy - the heart was empty, which is a very unusual circumstance, and denotes sudden death, by which I mean nearly instantaneous, perhaps in two or three minutes, not longer; the stomach contained a tolerably full meal, which smelt slightly of rum - digestion was going on at the time of death, and from the appearance I should think death had occurred about three hours after the meal; I removed the stomach for the purpose of having its contents analysed - the coats of the stomach appeared perfectly healthy; I ascribe the death to a blow on the back of the neck - that observation is verified by experiments I have made on animals, and in every case there was precisely the same appearances.
See originalCross-examined by MR. BARRY. Q. Did you use the sponge on the neck and throat to ascertain the extent of any external injury? A. I did it to cleanse the skin perfectly, to detect a scratch if it had been there - the body was not dirty; I found no external mark of injury on the back of the neck - if he had received a blow, and lived some time after, external marks would not necessarily he produced; it would be probable if he had lived.
Q. Do you agree with Mr. Partridge, that only the heart being empty and the flushed state of the countenance, such appearances might present themselves where death had not happened from injury? A. I think it might - I never found the heart empty before; I consider that more a proof of death being rather sudden: I think no blow on the top of the head would produce the appearance on the neck which I have described; any injury on the back of the neck, accidental or not, might produce it.
Q. If a person in a fit of apoplexy fell into the arms of a person or on a hard substance, might these appearances present themselves? A. I should hardly think it possible - I will not say it could not have happened if he had fallen with his neck on any projecting body; I will not swear how long after death the teeth were extracted.
MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. How long after death should you suppose they had been removed? A. I should think within two or three hours; I never knew death from apoplexy to leave the brain perfectly healthy, but I believe such cases have occurred in serous apoplexy - there was no serum in this boy's brain, nor the smallest symptom of apolexy; he was about fourteen years old, in very good health, not predisposed for apoplexy: I have opened many bodies which died of apoplexy, and always found marks to account for it, but I have read of some cases where there were no marks; if he received a blow on the neck, and died within a minute or two, there would be no external mark.
FREDERICK TYRRELL, ESQ. I am one of the surgeon's of St. Thomas' hospital. I have heard Mr. Beaman's evidence, and took notice of it - I agree with the conclusion he has come to in all material points; I never knew an instance of serous apoplexy in which the brain has not denoted some appearance of that kind; I have examined many - there has always been a certain quantity of fluid found sufficient to denote the death from that cause; the fluid acts by pressure on the brain generally. I hold some public appointments, and have lectured on anatomy for some time.
COURT. Q. You have heard the appearances described on the post mortem examination of the spinal canal, and the extravasted blood found there - in your judgment could those appearances have been produced but by violence? A.Certainly not, only by violence; it is not necessary that there should be any bruise, even if the patient survives many days - it is not necessary that there should be a blue or bruised state of the skin.
JOHN EARL ROGERS. I am an inspector of the Police. On Saturday, the 5th of November, I received a body from Mr. Hill - I conveyed it to the station-house, and gave it into the custody of Mr. Thomas; I saw Hill put it into the hamper.
JOHN WILSON. I am a Policeman. I assisted in apprehending the prisoners at King's-college, on the 5th of November, and in Catherine-street May resisted a great deal, and said he would not be taken; he struck me, but with the assistance of other officers, I brought him to the watch-house; he struck me because I would not let Bishop and him talk together.
JOSEPH SADLER THOMAS. I am superintendent of the Police division F. On the 5th of November I received information - I sent Rogers, Wilson, and others to King's-college; they afterwards returned with May and Williams in custody - I sent Rogers more particularly for the body - I think Bishop and Shields were the first persons brought to me, and then May and William; Rogers afterwards came with Hill, bringing the body, sack, and hamper - when the prisoners were all at the station, and the body and hamper in the back room, I told May he was charged on suspicion of having improper possession of a subject - he said, in the presence of the others, that he had nothing at all to do with it, that the subject was that gentleman's property, pointing to Bishop, and that he had merely accompanied him to get the money; I asked Bishop how he got the body - he said he was merely removing it from Guy's-hospital to King's-college; I asked whose it was - he said it was his own; I then asked Williams what he had to say - he said, "I know nothing at all about it; I merely went to King's-college, out of curiosity, to see the building:" I asked Bishop, when he said the body was his own, what he was - he said he was a bl - y body-snatcher; I should observe, that the prisoners were under the effects of liquor in my judgement; May and Bishop more particularly so; May was carried in on all-fours, and his frock over his face - he was scuffling; I ordered the body to be taken out of the hamper, which was done in my presence, and laid on a table; it struck me it was the body of a person who had recently died, as there was blood trickling from the mouth; the front teeth were all out - in consequence of further information I went to the house of Mr. Mills, Newington-causeway, on the Tuesday following, and received from him twelve teeth, which I now produce; I went on Tuesday, the 8th, to a cottage, No. 3, Nova Scotia-gardens, and in a back room, on the ground floor, I found a trunk; I went to the same cottage on the 20th of November, to make further search, and in the front parlour I found a hairy cap, covered with dirty linen, but I think that was by accident, as the things had been turned over before - I think I had seen the cap hanging up on the 8th; I produce it with the sack and hamper.
HENRY LOCK. In November last I was waiter at the Fortune of War, Giltspur-street; I know the prisoners -On Friday, the 4th of November, about eleven o'clock in the morning, I remember seeing them all three at the Fortune of War - they had some drink there, and staid till about twelve; there was some man, a stranger to me, came with them, and all four went away together - the man appeared to be in their company, and about three o'clock the same afternoon the three prisoners came again, and staid till about dusk, about five - all three then went away together; they all three returned about eight o'clock the same evening, with a man who appeared to be a coachman, not the one who was with them before - the coachman had something to drink, and left them; one of them said in the
See originaltap-room that he had had a ride; they all went into the taproom for some time, and a little before nine o'clock May went to the bar with something in a silk handkerchief, which afterwards turned out to be teeth, for I saw him pour water on the silk handkerchief and rub the teeth in his hand - he afterwards opened the handkerchief, so that I could see they were human teeth; I remarked to May that they appeared to be young ones, and were worth a few shillings - he said they were worth 2l. to him; they all left together some short time after this - on the following morning, Saturday, about eight o'clock, I saw Bishop, Williams, and Shields there; Bishop, speaking to Williams, said, "What shall we do for a hamper?" Williams made no answer - Bishop asked Shields to go over to the hospital, and get a hamper which was inside the rails; Shields refused to go - Bishop went out of the house himself, and returned shortly after with a hamper; Williams and Shields remained till he returned - they then left the house together; I did not see them again till they were in custody.
THOMAS WIGLEY. I am a porter at different coach-offices. On the 4th of November, about half-past six o'clock, I was at the Fortune of War, and between half-past seven and eight I saw Bishop come in; May followed in five or six minutes afterwards - Bishop sat down on a bench, and May sat down on a bench opposite him; Bishop said to May, "What do you think of our new one, did not he go up to him well, and collar him - was not he a game one?" May said, "I don't know what you mean;" Bishop said, "That is all right, then."
Q. Did May see you in the room? A. Yes; I sat in the corner, having a pint of beer, and he saw me - May got up, and went out; he came back in a few minutes with a handkerchief in his hand, and sat down rubbing it- Williams came in; Bishop said, "There he is; I knew he would come - I knew he was a game one;" Bishop seemed as if he had been drinking; he got up, and said,"I am going home" - May said, "I am not going away yet;" Bishop and Williams went out together - May sat down, but went out presently, and I saw no more of him; Bishop said to May, "You stick by me, I will stick by you;" that was just before he went out for the handkerchief - I did not see them again till they were in custody.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. It was Bishop said, "Was not our new one a game one?" A. Yes - I do not know what he meant.
JAMES SEAGRAVES. I drive a cabriolet. On Friday evening, the 4th of November, I was at the stand in the Old Bailey, with my cab, and at twenty minutes before six o'clock I went into the watering-house to have my tea - Allcroft keeps the house; the waterman fetched me out for a fare, and I saw May and Bishop - I am sure of their persons; May asked if I wanted a job - I said I did not know; he said he wanted a cab, "a long job or a short job," and he led me by the tip of my coat to the near wheel of an errand-cart - Bishop remained by my cab; May told me plainly that he wanted me to fetch a stiff one, by which I understood a dead body - I told him I did not know, what would he stand - he said he would stand a guinea; I said I had not finished my tea, and the horse had not done his corn; May said, "Then we will take tea together;" I went into the watering-house to my tea - May and Bishop followed me, and took their places at the end of the table - they called for tea for two; a person in the room gave me a nudge on the elbow, and gave me a caution, but not in their hearing - I had resolved before not to accommodate them, but had given them to understand I would go; I directed the waterman to get my horse ready, and after tea I went out, got into my cab, and drove to the bottom of the rank, out of their way - I looked round, and saw May and Bishop going up the rank among the coaches, and I left them apparently bargaining with a coachman.
Cross-examined by MR. BARRY. Q.How do you know this was on Friday? A.Because the person I drive for had a summons that day to attend at Essex-street before the Commissioners - there might be four or five persons in the watering-house.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. The conversation was by the errand-cart outside the house, when you and May were alone? A. Yes; Friday is the day the Commissioners hear summonses.
THOMAS TAVENER. I am waterman at the coach-stand at the Old Bailey. On Friday, the 4th of November, about a quarter to six o'clock, as it was just dark, Bishop and May came down the stand, and May asked me for the cab-man - I said he was in the watering-house at tea; I fetched Seagrave out - they both had smock-frocks on; Seagrave came and spoke to them - I heard them say it was to carry a stiff 'un - I heard Seagrave say he would have nothing to do with it, and he walked into the parlour; they walked in after him.
EDWARD CHANDLER. On the 4th of November I was waiter at the King of Denmark watering-house, Old Bailey - Bishop and May were at that house about six o'clock, I should think; I saw Seagrave there - May and Bishop had half a pint of gin with their tea - I observed May put some gin into Bishop's tea, and heard Bishop say, "Are you going to focus or Burke me?" I cannot say which - it was one of those two words; I know them both, and have not a doubt of them.
Cross-examined by MR. BARRY. Q. Did you serve the gin? A. Yes; I cannot say whether Seagrave had any.
HENRY MANN. I am a hackney-coachman. I was on the stand in Bridge-street, Blackfriars, on Friday, the 4th of November, from five to six o'clock in the evening, and saw May, whom I knew before, with another whom I do not know; May asked if I would take a fare to go with him to Bethnal-green - I said I would not, as I knew what he was.
Cross-examined by MR. BARRY. Q.Had you an opportunity of seeing the other man? A. No, he stood behind me.
GEORGE GISSING. I am twelve years old - my father keeps the Bird Cage, Crabtree-row, near Nova Scotia-gardens. On Friday evening, the 4th of November, about half-past six o'clock, I saw a yellow-bodied hackneychariot draw up opposite my father's house - Bishop's cottage, No. 3, Nova Scotia-gardens, is a short distance from my father's house; I did not see who got out of the chariot - it had stopped before I saw it; I went to the door on seeing it, and saw Williams standing on the fore-wheel, talking with the coachman; I knew Williams before - the
See originalchariot stood there ten or fifteen minutes; the door remained open, as if waiting for somebody - I then saw Williams coming from Nova Scotia-gardens; he had left the chariot and gone down there - he got into the chariot; I then saw a man, whom I did not know, carrying a sack in his arms; Bishop had hold of one end of it, coming on abreast - I knew Bishop before; they put the sack into the chariot - it appeared to have something heavy in it; they put it into the chariot - Williams helped them; he was still in the chariot, and put his arm out to help them - Bishop and the other man then got into the chariot; Williams remained there - it drove up Crab tree-row, which leads to Hackney-road, towards Shoreditch church and Bishopsgate; I am quite sure of Bishop and Williams - the third man was dressed in a smock-frock; I did not notice whether he was short or tall - I believe Bishop is Williams' father-in-law; I recollect one Monday, when it was said he had married Bishop's daughter, they came to our house for beer - I did not know his daughter before.
THOMAS TRAINER. I saw the hackney-chariot that night; I did not know the prisoners before - two of them had on a smock-frock, and one a fustian coat; Ann Channel was standing by with me.
ANN CHANNEL. I was passing the Bird Cage on the evening of the 4th of November: I heard a hackney-chariot, saw it stop, and three men get out - they went down Nova Scotia-gardens; two went first, the third said something to the coachman, and then followed them - I did not stop to see them return; I cannot speak to either of their persons; the first two who passed me had smock-frocks on, the other had a pipe in his mouth, but I did not notice his dress - the coach door continued open, and Trainer stood by the side of it.
THOMAS DAVIS. I am porter at the dissecting-room, Guy's-hospital. On Friday evening, the 4th of November, May and Bishop came there, about seven o'clock - when I opened the door I saw May with a sack, which he brought in; Bishop followed him - they asked if I wanted to purchase a subject; I knew them both before - I declined it; they asked if I would allow them to leave it there till morning; I gave them leave, and it was locked up in a room and joining the theatre during the night - I kept the key myself; Weeks, my assistant, has another key - I saw May and Bishop at the hospital next morning, about twelve o'clock; I had been out, and on my return I ascertained that the sack had been taken away - there was something in it when in my possession, which I supposed to be a dead body; while it was in my care I saw a foot, or a portion of a foot, obtrude from it - I should judge that it was the foot of a youth or a female, it was not large enough for a man; whether it protruded from the mouth of the sack or a hole I cannot say; it was a such a sack as the one produced.
JAMES WEEKS. I am assistant to Davis, at Guy's-hospital. On Friday, the 4th of November, I saw Bishop and May bring a sack there, which appeared to contain a human body - I saw a hole in the sack, and a portion of the knee projected through; the sack produced resembles the one they brought - I have a key of the room, and saw it placed there that night; I kept my key in my possession till the following morning - I saw the three prisoners and Shields next day, about one o'clock; I delivered to them the sack in the same state as I received it - they were all together: May said to me the night before, "Don't let the subject go unless I am present, and Bishop said the same; they brought a hamper with them on the Saturday, like the one produced, and all went away together, Shields carrying it.
JAMES APPLETON. I am procurator at Mr. Grainger's anatomical theatre, Webb-street, Southwark. I know all the prisoners - on Friday evening, the 4th of November, Bishop and May came to the theatre, about half-past seven o'clock, and told me they had a subject for sale; I asked what it was - they said a very fresh subject, a boy about fourteen years of age; I declined to purchase - they did not bring it with them; they both called again the next morning, about eleven o'clock, and made the same offer, but I declined it.
THOMAS MILLS. I live at No. 39, Bridgehouse-place, Newington-causeway. On the 5th of November May called and offered me a set of twelve human teeth - there were six of each jaw; I think it was between nine and ten o'clock - he asked me a guinea for the set; I said one of the front teeth was chipped, which leasened the value, and I would give him 12s.; I said the chipped one lessened the value of the teeth, and I did not believe they belonged to one set; he said he declared, upon his soul, to God, they all belonged to one head, and not long since, and that the body had never been buried - he at last agreed to take 12s., which I gave him, and he left; I examined them particularly afterwards, and found a portion of the gum, and some part of the socket attached to them - I cleaned it off: from that circumstance it appeared to me that the teeth had certainly been wrenched from the jaw by violence - they were so firmly attached I had great difficulty in separating them; I remarked to May that they had certainly belonged to a young subject, or a female - he said, "The fact is, they belong to a boy between fourteen and fifteen years old."
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q.Did not he say they did not look like ground teeth, but were as fresh as if they had never been buried? A. No, he did not.
AUGUSTINE BROOM (through an interpreter). I knew an Italian boy named Carlo Ferrier; I brought him over from Italy about two years ago - he was then about fourteen years old; he lived with me for about six weeks - I saw him alive on the 28th of July, 1830: the last place I knew him to lodge at was Mr. Elliott's, No. 2, Charles-street, Drury-lane; on the 19th of November I saw the body of a boy at the burial-ground near Covent-garden - I can only say that I suppose it to be the boy of whom I have spoken. by his size and hair, but the face I cannot give an opinion upon, from the state it was in, and the teeth were taken out; the size and the hair were exactly the same as Ferrier's - I have not seen that boy alive since.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q.Supposing you had heard nothing about Carlo Ferrier, and had looked at that body, should you at all have known it? -A. Yes, I should, from the hair and size - I should have given the same evidence if I had never heard the boy was killed.
COURT. Q.Have you seen him since July twelve months? A. No; he might grow a little in fifteen months, not much; when I saw his body the first time I could not speak to it, the face being so disfigured.
JOSEPH PARAGELL. I play an organ and pandean
See originalpipes about the streets, with my wife and three children. I knew Carlo Ferrier; I saw him every morning at Mr. Elliott's, No.2, Charles-street, Drury-lane; I knew he was once in Broom's service - I have known the boy from the 22nd of May, 1830; I saw him about different parts of London - I saw him alive in the Quadrant, Regent-street, at half-past two o'clock on a Saturday afternoon, four weeks before I saw him at the station-house, which will be a mouth ago next Sunday; he was then dead - when I saw him at the Quadrant he had a little cage round his neck, and two white mice in it; he was the same boy as I saw dead at the station-house, undoubtedly - (looking at a cap) I cannot swear to this cap- he always wore a cap; I cannot say whether I ever saw him in one like this - he had one on in the Quadrant, but I cannot say whether it was cloth, leather, or skin; I am sure the shade of this cap is of foreign manufacture.
Cross-examined by MR. BARRY. Q. Is it not eleven months since you saw him? A. It was four weeks before I saw him a corpse - he lodged close to me; the rest of the Italian boys live by Saffron-hill - I have seen many about town; I do not keep company with my countrymen here.
MARY PARAGELLI. I am the wife of the last witness, I knew a boy who carried two white nice about; I do not know his name - I saw that boy on Tuesday, the 1st of November, in Oxford-street, near Hanover-square, exactley at a quarter-past twelve o'clock - he had a little cage, like a squirrel's cage, which turns round, with two little white mice in it; I did not speak to him - I do not recollect how he was dressed: he had a little cap on, but it is impossible for me to say what colour, or what it was made of. On Sunday morning, the 6th of November, about nine o'clock, I saw the dead body of the very same boy at the station-house, Covent-garden - I had known him all the summer; I known Broom, but did not know him till the boy had left him - I do not know what name the boy went by; I never spoke to him much - I was with my husband when we saw him in the Quadrant; that was the same boy that I saw dead - I have a son eight years old, who knew the boy well - he went with me to the station-house, and knew him; he is not here.
ANDREW COLLER. I live on Great Saffron-hill - I make bird-cages and sell them in the street. I knew Carlo Ferrier, by seeing him about the street: on Tuesday, the 1st of November, I saw him in Oxford-street, and spoke to him; I saw a dead body at the station-house in Covent-garden on the following Monday - it was the body of the same person as I had seen in Oxford-street; he had a cage, with white mice in it, and a tortoise - he had a cap on his head, something like the one produced; it was torn on one side - I believe this to he the same cap; he had on a blue coat and grey trousers - (looking at a pair of trousers) I observed a large patch on the left knee, and by the patch on the left knee of these trousers I believe them to be the same he had on; they are the same kind - I did not so particularly notice the colour or patch as I did the stitches being so great a distance from each other as these are; I do believe these to be the trousers - I have not seen them since I saw them on the boy in Oxford-street.
JOHN KING. I am ten years old, and live in Crabtree-row, Bethnal-green, facing the Bird Cage, near Nova Scotia-gardens; I live with my mother, who is now confined. I remember one day when my mother was wash ing, seeing a foreign boy near Nova Scotia-gardens - I believe it was on the Thursday before Guy Fawkes's-day, and between one and two o'clock; I was looking down upon him from the lost window, and could not see whether he had a cage or a box, as my mother would not let me to go down to him; I believe it was a cage, for I saw some wire on the top of it - he was standing still, with the cage hanging round his neck, by a string; he had a brown hairy cap on his head - the peak of it was lined with green; the cap produced looks exactly like it - I do not know how long he remained there; I was looking at him a few minutes.
Cross-examined by MR. BARRY. Q.Were you in the first or second floor? A. On the first, not very high from the ground; I was looking out at the lost door, and could see the green of the peak.
MARTHA KING. I am eleven years old; the last witness is my brother - I remember seeing an Italian boy near the Bird Cage public-house; I was at the front part of the house, it was on the Wednesday or Thursday before Guy Fawkes' day, and about twelve o'clock, I am sure it was either Wednesday or Thursday - he was standing still opposite the Bird Cage, with his box slung round his neck, and a cap on his head; the cap was just like this: Bishop's house is about a minute's walk from our house - I have never seen the boy since.
REBECCA BAYLIS. I am the wife of William Baylis, cabinet-maker, of Virginia-row, Bethnal-green; I live opposite the Bird Cage. On Thursday the 3rd of November, about a quarter before twelve o'clock, I saw an Italian boy-(I know the day, because on Wednesday I was at Mr. Bird's sale-room, and it was the day after the sale) - he was very near my own window, standing side-ways; I could see the side of his face and one end of the box, which he had in front of him: I think it was slung round his neck - he had a brown for or seal skin cap on, a small one rather shabby; I could see the peak was lined with green, and cut off very sharp (looking at the cap), it was this colour, but the front appeared to me, to come more pointed - it was a cap much like this; I cannot swear whether this is it: he had on a dark blue or a dirty green jacket, and grey trousers, apparently a dark mixture, but very shabby - about a quarter of an hour after; I had occasion to go to the Virginia Planter, to see if it was time to put on my husband's potatoes - I went a little way down Nova Scotia-gardens to look for my little boy; I saw the Italian boy standing within two doors of No. 3, there are three houses together, and he stood by No. 1: I do not think the jacket produced is the one he had on, I thought it was darker - these have the appearance of the trousers he had on.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. You do not think it is the jacket? A. No, it appeared darker at the distance I was, which was about six yards; I will not say it is the same - I have seen Italian boys about several times.
JOHN RANDALL. I am a labourer, and live in Orange-street, Bethnal Green, near Nova Scotia-gardens. On Thursday morning the 3rd of November, between nine and ten o'clock, I saw an Italian boy standing under the window of the Bird Cage public-house, near Nova Scotia-gardens - he had a box or cage with two white mice, the
See originalcage part of the box went round; I turned round to the boy; I saw he looked very cold, and gave him a half-penny, and told him he had better go on - he had on a blue coarse jacket or coat, apparently very coarse, and a brown cap with a bit of leather in front; I did not notice whether it was for or not - it was similar to this in colour, and the jacket was this colour; I did not notice his trousers.
SARAH TRUBIN. I am the wife of John Trubin, who is landlord of the houses, Nos. 1, 2, and 3, Nova Scotia-gardens. I am in the habit of letting those houses and receiving the rents; I let No. 3, to Bishop and his wife last July twelve months, and they lived there till Bishop was taken into custody - he sometimes paid the rent, and sometimes his wife; I let No. 2 to the prisoner Williams about last July: he then went by the name of Head, he occupied that house six or seven weeks - it was afterwards taken by Woodcock, who has been there five or six weeks; it was empty for a few weeks: there are gardens behind the three houses, the fences are low, and there is a gate from No. 2, to a well which is in Bishop's garden, and serves the three houses - there is a privy at the bottom of No. 3, that joins the house I live in round the corner; I have seen Williams at No. 3, at different times since he has left No. 2: I may have seen him there about ten times, and have seen his wife at No. 3, with her mother, who is Mrs. Bishop.
WILLIAM WOODCOCK, JUN. I live with my father at No. 2, Nova Scotia-gardens, next door to Bishop. I know the prisoner Williams; I often saw him at Bishop's - I have seen him there about ten times, and have seen his wife washing there about a fornight or three weeks ago; I have seen her there several times of a morning, about ten or eleven o'clock, and about five in the evening: I saw Williams there two or three days before Guy Fawkes' day, walking in Bishop's garden, and smoaking his pipe.
ABRAHAM KEYMERS. I keep the Feathers public-house, Castle-street, Bethnal Green; about a quarter before twelve o'clock on Thursday night, the 3rd of November, Bishop came to my house with another person, who I think was Williams, but I am not quite certain of him - my house is one or two hundred yards from Bishop's; I think they had a quartern of rum, and half a gallon of beer: they took the beer away with them in a half-gallon can - this is the can (looking at one).
Cross-examined. Q.Who came? A.Bishop, and I think Williams, but I am not quite certain. as I had never seen him before.
WILLIAM WOODCOCK. I went to live at No. 2, Nova Scotia-gardens, on the 17th of October - Bishop lived at No. 3, and I have every reason to believe Williams lived there also - I lived there till after they were apprehended - I do not know that I ever saw Bishop till after he was at the office, but I have seen Williams in the garden of No. 3. twice; the first Sunday after I moved in, and the second Sunday also - I am never at home in the week day, except from one to two o'clock; the first Sunday I was there I was digging the garden up - Williams came, and conversed with me over the rails; he took me away from the part I was digging, and pointed to another part where I could get some lilies - I had been digging directly at the bottom of the garden, and he drew my attention to a spot close to the house, and more particularly within reach of the gate. On the Thursday, before the 5th of November, I went to bed about half-past nine o'clock, which is my usual hour I generally go to sleep almost directly, and suppose I had been asleep four hours, or four hours and a half; when I was awoke, (I was half asleep) - I sleep in the front parlour; I heard footsteps, and thought it was somebody at the back of my premises - I thoroughly awoke myself to be satisfied; I found it was not in my house, but in the adjoining parlour, No. 3 - I distinctly heard three men's footsteps; I remained laying in bed, and did not sit up - I heard a scuffle, which might last about a minute or two at the furtbest, and then all was silent - the scuffling was in the same room as I heard the foo'steps - before I entirely went to sleep again I heard the side gate open; it is a side gate, at No. 3, leading to a path-way, at the left side of the house, called the private-way - I could distinctly hear the footsteps of one person in the room, and heard the footsteps of two persons run by my window - I am positive I heard the footsteps of two leave the house, and I heard them run back again - before they returned I heard the footsteps of one person within the house; the two returned in about a minute, and then I distinctly heard the voices of three persons -I knew the voice of one to he Williams; after that all became silent, and I went to sleep.
Cross-examined by MR. CURWOOD. Q. Do you know the thickness of the wall between the houses? A. No -I believe about four inches; they are brick - I only suppose Williams lives in Bishop's house, from having seen him twice; he is Bishop's son-in-law.
Q. Was the struggling like three men struggling together? A. I cannot say - I heard a struggling, but considered it a family quarrel; Williams had conversed with me for above two hours on the second Sunday - I am certain of his voice.
COURT. Q, What period was there between the footsteps leaving the house and their returning? A. About a minute or a minute and a half.
HANNAH WOODCOCK. I am the wife of the last witness. Bishop, his wife, and family, with Mr. and Mrs. Williams, lived at No. 3.
JOSEPH HIGGINS. I am a Policeman. On the 9th of November I went to No. 3, Nova Scotia-gardens, about five o'clock in the evening, I searched the house, and found two crooked chisels, a brad-awl, and a file - there was some blood all over the brad-awl, which looked fresh - it is now more dried on; I went on the 11th to May's lodging, No. 4, Dorset-street, New Kent-road - I found some tools, and among other things a pair of breeches, which are here, and when I got to the station-house I observed marks of blood on the back part of them, which appeared fresh - I also found a waistcoat, which appears to have a quantity of clay on it, and some tools - on the 19th I went again to Bishop's house, with Wadey - we searched the garden, behind the house; we tried it with an iron rod, and found something rather soft - I told Wadey to dig there, and the first thing that came up was a jacket and trousers, and a small size shirt - they were close to the palings, about five yards from the back door; we dug in another part of the garden, and found a blue coat, a pair of trousers, with braces attached to them, a
See originalstriped waistcoat, which appeared to have been a man's, but was taken in at the back, as if to fit a boy - it had marks of blood on the collar and shoulder; also a shirt, which was torn right up the front - they are here; the jacket has been already produced, and spoken to by the witnesses - these are the trousers which have been spoken to; here is the waistcoat - the stains of blood are not near so plain now; this is the shirt - the whole of these things were found buried in the garden, about twelve inches in the ground.
Q. Are they clothes likely to be useful to children in Bishop's family? A. The coat would be very useful, and has not got a rent in it; it would be very useful for a working boy - there were cinders and ashes over the ground, which would prevent my noticing its having been turned up.
WILLIAM WADEY. I have heard the witness' evidence; it is correct - I have nothing to add.
MR. MILLS re-examined. The teeth had evidently been forced off with great violence - they could be got out with great facility with this brad-awl, but only the front ones - those I had were all front.
EDWARD WARD. (A boy six years and a half old, who appeared perfectly to understand the obligation of an oath). I live in Nova Scotia-gardens; I remember last Guy Fawkes'-day - my mother gave me a half-holiday, before Guy Fawkes'-day; I do not recollect what day of the week it was - I went to Bishop's house on the day I had the half holiday - belived in Nova Scotia-gardens, at a corner house; I have seen three of his children - he has one big boy, another about my age, and a little girl - I saw them that day in a room, next to the little room, and the little room is next to the garden - I played with the children there; I had often seen them before.
Q. Did the children show you any thing that day? A. Yes; two white mice - one little one and one big one; they were in a cage, which moved round and round - I never saw them with white mice before, nor with a cage; I often played with them before - I saw my brother John when I got home, and told him what I had seen.
JOHN WARD. I have heard my brother's statement; I know he had his half-holiday on the Friday, the day before Guy Fawkes day - I remember his coming home, and telling me what he had seen while he was out; we live about one hundred yards from Bishop's.
MR. JAMES CORDER. I am vestry-clerk of St. Paul, Covent-garden. I was apprised of the discovery of this body about five o'clock, on Saturday afternoon, the 5th of November, and have taken some interest in the investigation; I attended the Inquest which was held from day to day - it met on Tuesday afternoon, the 8th of November, and adjourned till Thursday, the 10th, when it closed; in the course of the examination Bishop was produced, and made a statement, before which he received a very strong caution from the Coroner, that he was not obliged to say any thing, but that the evidence affected him, and if he chose to make a statement of a voluntary nature he might, but what he stated might he made evidence for or against him hereafter; I took the liberty of telling him that I was about to take down every word he said, and informed him before I did so, that the inquiry might affect his life - he made a declaration, which I took down from his mouth, read it over to him, and he offered to sign it; May and Williams were also cautioned, and examined the same as Bishop - Williams declined signing his statement.
The statements being read were as follow:-
Bishop said, "I cannot account for the death of the deceased; I got the body out of a grave: the reason why I do not like to say the grave I took it out of is, there are two watchmen in the ground - they entrusted me; they are both men of family, and I do not wish to deceive them; I took it for sale to Guy's-hospital, and as they did not want it I left it there all night and part of the next day, and then I removed it to the King's-college. That is all I can say about it."
May said, "I live at No. 4, Dorset-street, Newington. I went in the country last Sunday week, and returned on the following Wednesday evening; I brought home a couple of subjects with me - I took them to Mr. Grainger's, in Webb street, the same evening, and on the following morning, which was Thursday, I removed them to Mr. Davis', at Guy's, and after receiving the money went away; I went to the Fortune of War in Smithfield, and I staid there I dare say for two or three hours - between four and five o'clock, to the best of my recollection. I went to Nag's Head-court, Golden-lane, and there I stopped with a female till eleven or twelve the next day, Friday; from Golden-lane I went to the Fortune or War again, and there I stopped drinking till six o'clock, or past - Williams and Bishop both came in there: they asked me if I would stand any thing to drink, which I did - Bishop then called me out, and asked me where I could get the best price for things - I told him where I had sold two at Guy's, and he told me he had got a good subject, and he had been offered eight guineas for it; I told him I could get more for it - he said all I could get over nine I might have for myself, and I agreed to it; we went from there to the Old Bailey, and we had some tea at the watering-house in the Old Bailey, leaving Williams at the Fortune of War: after we had tea we called a chariot off the stand, and drove to Bishop's house- when we came there Bishop showed me the lad in a box or trunk; I then put it into a sack, and took it to the chariot myself, and took it from thence to Mr. Davis', at Guy's; Mr. Davis said, "You know, John, I cannot take it, because I took two of you yesterday, and I have not got names enough down for one, or else I would;" I asked him if I might leave it there that night, and he said, "Certainly"; Bishop then desired Mr. Davis not to let any person have it but himself, for it was his own subject, which Mr. Davis said he would not, and told his man James not to let any person have it besides himself; I told Mr. Davis not to let it go until I came as well, for I should be money out of pocket if it went before I came - I went home that evening, where I slept, and in the morning I went to Mr. Davis', and had not been there many minutes before Bishop came in, and Shields, with a hamper, and took it from thence to King's-college, and there I was taken in to custody.
Williams said, "I live at No. 3, Nova Scotia-gardens, and am a glass-blower. In the first place, I met with Bishop last Saturday evening, in Long-lane, Smithfield; I asked him where he was going - he said he was going to King's-college - we then went to the Fortune of War public-house, instead of going to King's-college we went to Guy's-hospital, and he came out of there, and went to the King's-college; then May and the porter met him against the gate, then Bishop went in, and I asked him to let me go in with him - a porter took a basket from the Fortune of War to Guy's-hospital, and I helped him part of the way with it. That is all I have got to say.
See originalWILLIAM DYOTT BURNABY. I acted as clerk to the Magistrate, at Bow-street; at the first examination of the prisoners among the articles produced was this brad-awl, and May said something about it, which was not taken down - he said, "That is the instrument which I punched the teeth out with."
JOHN KIRKMAN. I am a Policeman. I was attending at the station-house, in Covent-garden, at the time the Inquest was held on the body of the lad; I saw all the three prisoners in the front room - there was a printed bill stuck up there, referring to this supposed murder; it was behind where they sat - Bishop looked at the bill, and then sat down; Williams was between him and May - Bishop leaned his head over Williams to speak to May, and observed, in a low tone of voice, "It was the blood that sold us;" I heard no answer made to that - he then got up, looked at the bill, read it over a second time, and sat down with a sort of forced laugh, and said, "This states marks of violence, the marks of violence were only breakings out on the skin;" nothing was said in answer to that.
MR. THOMAS re-examined. When I first saw the body. I observed some patches of dirt on the breast, the side, and front of the legs - I particularly observed dirty marks on the left arm, which bore the appearance of fingers having grasped the arm; I now recollect that did observe on the breast a sort of falling in, as if it had been crushed if not broken- there was a continued stream of blood from the wound in the forehead, down the chest and body; it seemed as if it had been smeared off the breast, but sufficient was left to show that it had been blood.
MR. JOHN DAVIS. I had purchased two bodies of May the day before.
Bishop's Defence (written.) I, John Bishop, am thirty-three years of age, married, with three children, twelve, five, and three years of age, born at Highgate, was for some years a carrier, but have been engaged in procuring bodies for surgical and anatomical purposes twelve years; I have carried bodies to St. Thomas'-hospital, St. Bartholomew's-hospital, Guy's-hospital, and most of the private schools in London, at which places I am known - I declare that I never sold any body but what had died a natural death; I have had bodies from the various workhouses, together with the clothes which were on the bodies - I occupied the house in Nova Scotia-gardens, fifteen months; it consisted of three rooms and a wash-house, a garden, about twenty yards long, by about eight yards broad, three gardens adjoin, and are separated by a dwarf railing; I could have communication to either cottage, or the occupiers of them to mine - the well in my garden was for the joint use of all the tenants; there was also a privy to each house - the fact is, there are twenty cottages and gardens, which are only separated by the paling already described, and I could get easy access to any of them; I declare I know nothing at all about the various articles of wearing-apparel that have been found in the garden, but as regards the cap that was found in the house, and supposed to have belonged to the deceased Italian boy, I can prove that it was bought by my wife of a Mrs. Dodswell, of Hoxton Old-town, clothes-dealer, for my own son, Frederick - the front I sewed on myself after it was purchased; the front was bought with the cap, but not sewed to it - they were sold to my wife along with other articles; Mr. Dodswell is a pastry-cook, and has nothing to do with the business of the clothes-shop - the calling of Mrs. Dodswell, therefore, as evidence to prove the truth of my statement, will put it beyond a doubt that the cap never did belong to the deceased boy, and Mrs. Dodswell should also prove how long she had the cap in her possession, and how she came by it: as much stress has been laid upon the finding of several articles of wearing-apparel, and also the peculiar manner in which they appear to have been taken off the persons of those supposed to have came in an improper way into my hands, I most solemnly declare I know nothing whatever of them; the length of the examinations, and the repetition of them have been so diligently promulgated and impressed on the public mind, that it cannot but be supposed that a portion of the circumstances connected with this unfortunate case (if not all,) have reached and attracted the attention of the Jury; but I entreal them, as they value the solemn obligation of the oath they have this day taken, that they will at once divest themselves of all prejudice, and give me the whole benefit of a cool, dispassionate, and impartial hearing of the case, and record such a verdict as they, on their conscience, their honour, and their oath can return: May and Williams know nothing as to how I became possessed of the body.
Williams' Defence (written.) I, Thomas Williams, am now twenty-six years of age; I am a bricklayer by trade, and latterly worked at the glass-blowing business, as a fireman - I was never engaged in any instance as a procurer of dead bodies or subjects; into the present melancholy business I was invited by Bishop - I know nothing whatever about the manner in which he became possessed of the dead body; Bishop asked me to join him on the Friday - I made no inquiry about the nature of the business; I shall, therefore, leave my case entirely to the intelligence and discrimination of the Jury, and the learned and merciful Judge; but trust I may be allowed once more to state, that I am entirely innocent of any offence against the laws of my contry.
May's Defence (written.) I, James May, am thirty years of age, am married, with one child four years old, born at the New Inn, Strand, London, in the parish of St. Clement Danes, and received a moderate education; I was not apprenticed, but followed the calling of a butcher in the earlier part of my life - I was engaged by several masters, who carried on their business in Clare-market; men, who are circumstanced as I was, are backwards and forwards from one master butcher to another, as may be required: I first became engaged in the traffic of anatomical subjects six years since, and from that period, up to the time of my apprehension, have continued so, with occasionally looking after horses; I accidentally met Bishop at the Fortune of War, a house that persons of our calling generally frequent, and are known there as such - Bishop wanted to speak to me, called me outside the door, and asked me where the best price could be procured for things; I told him where I had sold two for ten guineas each, at Mr. Davis', and I had no doubt I could get rid of that thing for him at the same price - he said if I did I should keep all I got above nine guineas to myself; there was no question asked as to the manner in which the body had been procured, and I knew nothing about it: as to what has been said in the public papers, or the prejudice that exists against me and the other prisoners, is of no moment; I here declare, that during all the years that I have been in this business, I never came into possession of a living person, nor used any means for converting them into subjects for the purposes of dissection; I admit that I have traded largely in dead bodies, but I solemnly declare that I never took undue advantage of any person alive, whether man, woman, or child, however poor or unprotected - I have not been accustomed to make application for bodies at the different workhouses, and I now solemnly
See originaldeclare that I know nothing at all of the circumstances connected with the procuring of the body, which is suspected to be that of the one named in the indictment, nor did I ever hear, nor understand, how Bishop became possessed thereof: I shall, therefore, leave my fate entirely to the intelligence and discernment of the Jury, and the learned Judge.
ROSINA CARPENTER. I have known May fourteen or fifteen years, but have not seen him for four or five years till within the last four months - on Thursday, the 3rd of November, he came to my house, in Nag's Head-court, Golden-lane, between four and five o'clock in the evening; I am sure it was Thursday - he stopped with me till between eleven and twelve o'clock next morning, which was Friday: I am sure he never left me - this was in Nag's Head-court, Golden-lane.
MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Do you live by yourself in Golden-lane? A. Yes - nobody was present during the time May was there; several people drank with us during that time - I am sure he did not go away till between eleven and twelve o'clock in the day on Friday; I know the Fortune of War - he was never out during the time; I cannot particularly name the persons who drank with us -I had frequently seen May for about three months, but before that had not seen him for four or five years; he had passed several nights with me before this - he had no human teeth in his possession, to my knowledge.
SARAH TRUBY re-examined. I never saw any white mice in possession of Bishop or his family.
Bishop. Q. Do you never recollect any mice running out of my garden into yours? A. Never.
Q. Six or seven months ago do not you recollect the cat catching some in your garden? A. No.
MARY DODSWELL. I am the wife of George Henry Dodswell - we live at No. 56, Hoxton Old-town, and sell second-hand clothes - my husband is employed as a pastry-cook. I know Bishop's wife perfectly well; I sold her a cap about two years ago - it was a cloth cap with a leather peak in front: I am perfectly sure it was cloth - the front was attached to the cap when I sold it; it had a black front, but I am not sure how it was lined.
Bishop. My wife bought two caps of you. Witness. She only bought one, I am quite confident.
Q.You recollect selling the two caps, my wife gave you 3d. for the peak? A. I never sold but one cap to her - I never saw Bishop nor any of the family but his wife; his daughter lived servant with me twelve months ago.
MARY ANN HORNE. I am single, and live at No. 4, Dorset-street, New Kent-road. On Sunday morning, the 30th of October, May left me, and said he was going into the country - I saw no more of him till the Wednesday night following, when I met him at the corner of William-street; we went home, and May went to bed; I sat up till three o'clock in the morning to air his jacket, which was very wet indeed, and also his under jacket - he got up on Thursday morning, put on a clean shirt, clean waistcoat, and braces, and went away; I saw no more of him till Friday night, when I met him by the Alfred's Head, facing the Elephant and Castle, at half-past eleven o'clock - he went home with me, got up about eight o'clock, and went out; I asked if he could give me a little money - he said he should be back by the time I wanted any. My landlady kept a jackdaw.
MR. ADOLPHUS. Q.What is your landlady's name? A. Mrs. Carrol - she is not here; I and May live up stairs- we do not live together exactly, but I think he is more with me than with any body else; he did not come home at all on Thursday night - he left at half-past seven o'clock on Thursday morning, and I saw no more of him till half-past eleven on Friday morning; where he had been I do not know - Charlotte Berry, the next witness, is single, and lives in the next room to us; I believe she occasionally sees gentleman - I do the same; I have been in custody at Bow-street twice on this charge, and stated to the Justice what I have now.
CHARLOTTE BERRY. I only know the last witness by lodging in the same house; the landlady has a jackdaw, which I pinched behind the door about Thursday evening, the 10th of November - that made it bleed, and it went away into the last witness' back room; I do not know of its injuring any clothes there.
MR. THOMAS. May requests that I will state about what I found at his lodging: - Higgins, having searched his lodging on the 11th, returned with some things, among the rest was a pair of trousers, stained with blood - I put my finger to it; it was not wet, but certainly glutinous - it was fresh blood, and must have been done since he was taken into custody.
EDWARD WILLIAM TUSON. I am a surgeon, and am subpoenaed on behalf of the prisoners. I know them by seeing them; I believe I have seen Bishop once or twice, but I do not know what I am to prove.
BISHOP - GUILTY - DEATH. Aged 33.
WILLIAMS - GUILTY - DEATH. Aged 26.
MAY - GUILTY - DEATH. Aged 30.
[Dec. 2.]
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3702
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 27, 2004 - 5:03 pm: |
|
A lot to digest there, AP. One thing that seems to come out, is that the doctors weren't totally sure about anything - it was "this is unlikely, but I have heard of cases..." and that sort of thing.
Robert |
Lindsey Millar
Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 155
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 3:31 pm: |
|
Wow, AP.
A boy of fourteen years.. how terribly sad!
Lyn |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1649
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 4:58 pm: |
|
Robert
yes, you are right, but the strong impression concerning the doctors then - just like now - is that they were very much in the purse of either party and sold their soul accordingly.
Prostitutes basically. Four pence and they were yours.
Lindsey, thanks, but I do have much sadder cases. What about a 12 year old kid being hung for taking a hanky? Used at that.
Very sad and bad times I'm afraid. |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1709
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 5:24 pm: |
|
AP as ever! sensational stuff!
Thanks
Suzi |
Ken Proctor
Detective Sergeant
Username: Gizmo
Post Number: 70
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 6:36 pm: |
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Hello A.P. Thankyou for an amazing read. I cant help but wonder, how many others in Bishop's illustrious 12 year career fell under the same circumstances. I presume all three hanged and that they were magnanimous by donating their own corpses to science. DOUBT IT Thanks again. "GIZMO"
"Hey Rookie----You were good" (Field Of Dreams)
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Nina Thomas
Inspector
Username: Nina
Post Number: 202
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 4:44 pm: |
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Hi AP,
That poor boy! They even took his teeth to sell. So very sad!
THE CONVICTED
John Bishop and Thomas Williams were executed at Newgate Prison on December 5, 1831 in front of an estimated 30,000 spectators who cheered for several minutes. After the execution, Bishop went to Kings College and Williams to the Theater of Anatomy, where both were dissected. They were later put on public display and crowds came to view them.
James May was respited during his Majesty’s pleasure. I have been unable to discover what later became of him.
Nina |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 652
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 5:23 pm: |
|
Hi A.P.
If you know, what's this "lost window" and "lost door" the King boy talks about? Is that an architectural term?
"I was looking down upon him from the lost window"
Thanks for the transcript,
Dave |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1656
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 6:01 pm: |
|
Thanks Dave
the only explanation I have at this moment for the term 'lost' when applied to a window or door in this time period is that the property referred to was formerly a shop or place of business.
Hence when the shop or business closed and turned back to a private dwelling the front windows were boarded and became 'lost'.
We see this all the time today, but I'm not sure if this is the answer you seek.
I'll see if I can find more. |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 653
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 6:22 pm: |
|
Thanks very much for that, A.P. That caught my Irish there, King watching the doomed boy from a lost window  I can't find a reference to the term, but what you said makes sense. Please don't go out of your way, but if you happen to come across anything about that, I sure would be interested.
Meanwhile, people might like this: http://www.exclassics.com/newgate/ng609.htm They have an overview of the case less detailed than your transcript, but they include a couple of confessions Bishop made before they executed him. Looks like he exonerated May at the end.
Cheers,
Dave |
d g cornelius
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 11:31 pm: |
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As an architectural historian, I am unfamiliar with the "lost window/door" references, although they may have been peculiarities of the time. I was, however, struck in the same account by the apparent use of the terms "first floor/second floor" in the American sense, i.e. British "ground floor/first floor" respectively.
Was the twelve-year-old [i.e. born ca.1819] witness George Gissing related to the novelist [born 1857 according to one source] with the same name? |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 673
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 10:53 am: |
|
Thanks, D.G. and A.P. I did a little digging and saw some photographs of "lost windows"--they were all boarded up as A.P. said. Sorry to sidetrack the thread, the term just struck me.
Thanks again for this transcript, A.P. I don't know if you read the confession on the other site, but I thought the murder of the woman with the little baby was particularly pathetic.
Cheers,
Dave |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1668
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 1:29 pm: |
|
No worries, David.
Yes, I did visit the other site, but believe me I have found far more harrowing detail than this whilst searching the LVP.
My main interest in this transcript was simply that so many modern researchers damn the idea that people may have been murdered for their bodies or body parts in the Victorian age.
Well, it happened... no disputing that now.
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D G Cornelius
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 11:47 pm: |
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For much more about this pathetic narrative as a microcosm of nineteenth century London, including the fate of Mr May and the giant dung-hill in Nova Scotia Gardens, see Sarah Wise's splendid new book The Italian Boy: A Tale of Murder and Body-Snatching in 1830s London.
I am still curious about the two George Gissings. Calling C. Scott, perhaps? |
Sarah Wise
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 6:31 am: |
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Hello, Sarah Wise here –I've just found your site, and thanks for the mention Mr/Ms Cornelius.
'Lost' in the transcript is a misprint and it should have said 'loft' – on the first floor of the Kings' cottage in Crabtree Row.
And George Gissing is no relation to the Wakefield-born novelist.
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Dustin Gould
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 11:22 pm: |
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Not an all that uncommon practice. Here in Canada, our original capital city, "Kingston", was rampant with body snatching over a century and a half ago. With a medical school being located there, the unscrupulous could turn a quick profit, with only a little bit of after-hours digging. They would sell the body to the school, and cash in the deceased's jewlery at a pawn shop.
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Robertoa C. Reed
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 10:17 pm: |
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There is a book about this crime, it is called "The Italian Boy" Murder and Grave-Robbery in 1830's London and it is written by Sarah Wise. As for James May who was given a reprieve from the hanging almost at the last minute he said goodbye to his wife on December 18th 1831 and boarded the hulk Justitia,
which was bound for Botany Bay , where he was to spend the rest of his life and instead died abroad the prison hospital ship the Grampus , moored off Greenwich,January 20th 1832. |
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