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Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2865
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 3:29 pm: |       |
I'm in the midst of cleaning out my archives and came across an article I'd meant to post a while back, but had never got around to it.
In the debate about the origins of the name "Jack the Ripper", it is often suggested that there may be a link with the "High Rip Gang." Frankly this link always seemed somewhat tenuous to me, until I read this article from the Liverpool Echo (dated 20 November 1886), in which the author refers to the gang as both "High Rips" and the "High Rippers". If this gang was indeed generally known as the High Rippers - and this was 2 years before the Ripper murders - I would think that this is by far the most reasonable explanation for the origins of the name. (Whether this "High Rip" gang was the same as that in London, an offshoot, or just coincidentally named the same, I'm not sure)
___________________________________
Liverpool Echo
20 November 1886
Mr. Justice Day yesterday closed the Liverpool Assizes with a speech about the "High Rip Gang," and the social condition of Liverpool generally. His lordship's address was very able, thought and language clear and distinct, and full of that deep conscientiousness which is one of the learned judge's most prominent characteristics. But his lordship merely travelled over the same ground which has often been traversed in this column. We are all aware that the populatio of Liverpool is a peculiar one - very peculiar. Taking it individual by individual, a poorer population probably does not exist in any large town or city in Great Britain. The poor-rate is indicative enough of the extent to which the destitute from other places flock to the banks of the Mersey to compete fiercely for the casual and fluctuating work whcih is to be found in teh second seaport of the world. We have frequently pointed out that from this number there must necessarily spring, out of the very conditions of their environment, a rough element. But his lordship will not have it that this element is ever organised against the law so as to form such a conspiracy as that of the "High Rip Gang." "There may," said the learned judge, "be found in Liverpool, as in every large town, a very large number of ruffians who do indulge in vice and ruffianism. Such persons naturally herd together, such persons naturally associate together, and such persons assist each other in their enterprises. Such persons in many instances, I have no doubt, take revenge for wrongs they think have been done their associates in the infliction of judicial punishment or evidence given in courts of law against their associates. I have never seen and cannot believe that there is anything in Liverpool of the nature of an organisation of ruffians banded together against the law. All I say is that there may be, but I have seen no evidence of it. Exactly so. His lordship does not know of his own knowledge. He admits that there are ruffians, and that they are banded, only he does not know them by the name of High Rippers. That is just what the police say; and they took care that his lordship was not permitted to see anything that would lead to a different conclusion during his personally-conducted tour last Saturday night. However, the citizens of Liverpool will not quarrel about names. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet; and if the police will suppress the organisations of ruffians which Mr. Justice Day says are to be found in Liverpool, and which he charges with taking revenge for judicial proceedings taken against them for their crimes, the police may deny that these gentry are High Rippers till they are black in the face. One thing is certain. When Mr. Justice Day's "ruffians" are caged, the High Rippers will not be at large.
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 840
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 3:40 am: | |
G'day Stephen,
Well that explains where the 'Ripper' bit came from, and I researched 'Spring Heeled Jack', which one Ripper book described as a fictional character based on fact.
I wanted the find out about the 'facts' here, and found that 'Spring Heeled Jack' was a real-life villain, that terrorized women annonymously, (but never actually killed anyone). He was called 'Spring Heeled...', because of the way he disappeared from sight. I think he attached carriage-wheel springs to his boots.
I wrote a story once for Ripperoo, and I think I may have already sent it to you!
LEANNE |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 841
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 3:49 am: | |
G'day,
I just found it in Issue 12, and here is a link below:
http://casebook.org/dissertations/ripperoo-spring.html
I forgot to mention in my last post, that this could be where he got the name 'Jack'.
LEANNE |
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 399
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 8:44 am: | |
Hi, Stephen:
Yes you might be right that the Liverpool High Rip Gang, also known as the High Rippers, was the origin of the name Ripper, however, please note that there was a gang in Baltimore as early as 1856 called the Rip Raps at the time of the Know-Nothing riots (David Grimstad, American Mobbing, 1828-1861: Toward Civil War, Oxford University Press, p. 237).
The following from a Maryland Historical Society webpage gives an idea of the violence of which the Rip Raps were capable and note the weapon used, an awl:
". . . nothing could give a Rip Rap more pure delight than outright assault and battery, and if changing times called for more restraint and fewer shootings he had the answer in the shoemaker's awl. Small, sharp, easily concealed, it was the perfect weapon for a new, more discreet era. Gang members could surround a reform voter and stab him repeatedly and painfully, though not fatally. So pleasing was this new development that the Know-Nothing Party made the awl its symbol."
These types of names, Rip Rap, High Rip, Ripper might have been current on both sides of the Atlantic. Such a name might be reflective of the menacing violence such a group or individual could threaten, so it is all of a piece, although I think not definitive that this is where the name came from. Rather it is a bit like "Eight Little Whores" poem and variants of such a rhyming song, they were all current but it's hard to know which influenced which.
All the best
Chris |
Dan Norder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 7:26 pm: | |
Leanne,
Jack was a common term for all sorts of characters in the United Kingdom. Jack o' Lantern, Jack Tar, Jack the Giant Killer, etc. The name wouldn't have had to come from Springheeled Jack at all.
And it is highly doubtful that Springheeled Jack was ever a real life person. The varied descriptions and the particulars of the phenomena makes it likely that it was just another case of mass hysteria that strikes people now and then (just Google for Muhnochwa, Bigfoot, Mothman, Mad Gasser, Malawi vampire, Needle Men, etc.). The idea that someone really had springs stuck to his boots and used them to jump around with just isn't realistic. If someone really tried that he would have been known as Fall on his Ass Jack. |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 846
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 7:28 am: | |
G'day Dan,
You obviously haven't read my story on the link provided above yet!
LEANNE |
Dan Norder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 2:23 am: | |
Leanne,
No, I read your story but can't take it seriously. There's absolutely no reason to believe that hysterical reports about somebody jumping around meant that there really was an actual real life Springheeled Jack.
I mean, come on, have you even taken ten seconds to think about if it's even possible for someone int he 1800s to jump around reliably on boots with springs on them? This fails the common sense test.
People tell strange stories all the time, that doesn't mean they are true. Or do you believe in Bigfoot, Mothman, etc. too? |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 855
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 5:28 am: | |
G'day Dan,
There were so many sightings of this practical joker, they would have been any man, (not the same man), who wanted a sexual thrill, and someone to blame it on. This myth was supposed to have been started by that Waterford guy, who was a known practical joker. People who reported these incidents probably did exaggerate a lot. You seem to be saying that I believe there was a real monster roaming around. Can't you comprehend?
Why do you seem so determined to rubbish everything I suggest? I don't wish to continue with this. I'm not biting your bait!
LEANNE |
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 156
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 8:15 am: | |
Well just to continue my sycophancy from the other thread, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your Spring Heeled Jack article Leanne, I knew a little of the story before and I found it handily filled in the gaps in my knowledge. Thanks for putting it up on the site. |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 856
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 3:31 pm: | |
G'day Alan,
Thanks mate! I really try!
I can see now that writing the line: 'Over a period of nearly 70 years, a leaping madman startled and attacked young women.', could have lead readers to believe I was pushing the idea that the same man attacked women for nearly 70 years. I should have put: 'Over a period of 70 years, reports of a leaping madman....'
LEANNE
(Message edited by Leanne on November 07, 2003) |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1193
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 5:23 pm: | |
Hi Leanne
Just to say that I enjoy arguing with you. I may sometimes find your Barnett-bashing bewildering, and even perverse, but I know if I'm still around in fifty years' time I'll find a highly energetic little grey-haired old lady trying to convince me that Poor Old Joe was the Demon of Dorset Street.
You never let go!
Robert |
Glenn L Andersson
Chief Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 648
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 7:26 pm: | |
Hi Robert,
Yes, this board wouldn't be the same without Leanne, that's for sure.
Leanne,
Just read your piece above. and I found it very interesting and enjoyable. Even if some of us don't buy your Barnett reasoning, we do appreciate your links and your efforts, at least I do. Just thought it had to be said. 
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 138
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 2:28 am: | |
Hello Leanne,
I have just read your Dissertation on "Spring-Heeled Jack".Interesting..
To me, this episode indicates, how men who delighted in scaring helpless women, could get their "jollies" by imitating the original prankster.
When I think about the name "Spring-Heeled" and "Jack", the first brings to mind a breed of dog(?), and the second, the generic term pinned on anonymous fiends since time immemorial.
You have previously speculated on whether there might be a possible linking in the London public mind between "Spring-Heeled Jack" and :Jack The Ripper".
Two things occur to me: given that JTR was (at least as far as we know)an East End phenomenom, and given the proclivity of street argot to hinge greatly on rhyming slang, might not "Jack The Ripper" stem from some street chant using words like "kipper" or "slipper"?
Lastly, you probably knew that Montague Druitt's uncle in Australia, Archdeacon Thomas Druitt - at least within his family circle- referred to John The Baptist as "Jack The Dipper"!! ?
I'm not sure if this was before or after JTR's campaign. |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 863
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 12:49 am: | |
G'day,
I'm not sure why everyone through history always picks on the name JACK. It's like PLAIN JANE. I've got an uncle Jack, who's as nice as pie!
LEANNE |
Dan Norder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 4:32 pm: | |
Leanne,
Just going by what you wrote.
You claim there actually was a real person running around that the stories were based on. A "real life villain." There's no evidence to support this. In fact, it goes against what we know of these kinds of mass hysteria cases.
You also claim you think someone had carriage springs on his boots and was able to jump around. This is an absolutely ridiculous idea.
But then I have said both of these things already, and you have the gall to say I am accusing you of believing in a monster. Then you top it off by asking *me* if *I* have trouble comprehending things... LOL.
I try to point out the inconsistencies of logic of anyone posting here, especially in areas in which I have a lot of knowledge, such as mass hysteria cases like this. The fact that I end up correcting you a lot should be a clue that you make a lot of errors, not that I am out to get you. |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 874
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 5:39 am: | |
G'day Dan,
I do not claim anything! I researched this from books in my library, and the Internet. Are you saying that there is nothing to support the fact that these attacks were reported? Let me find some links!
I do not claim that someone had carriage springs attatched to his boots. That's what they claimed!
LEANNE |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 875
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 5:54 am: | |
http://theshadowlands.net/jack.htm
http;//www.anomalyinfo.com/articles/ga00002.shtml
LEANNE |
Sarah Long
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 6:16 am: | |
Leanne,
Not to sound like I'm ganging up on you but you did actually say:-
I think he attached carriage-wheel springs to his boots."
So it did sound like YOU were claiming he wore them.
I do enjoy your posts though and there are many things about this case we don't agree on (ahem, Barnett, ahem) but you are very thorough and have actually made me think more about the idea of Barnett. The only reason I question it so much is because deep down I think you may possibly be right but i need checks and re-checks. So keep it coming!!
I also heard that this "Spring-Heeled Jack" was based on a true life villian, but can't remember where now.
By the way Leanne, when is you book coming out? I'm looking forward to it tremendously.
Regards,
Sarah |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 883
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 7:06 am: | |
G'day Sarah,
Open the first link I gave in the post above this. Just click on it. Then click on 'The Legend - Variations & Theories' at the top of the page. About 2 paragraphs down it says: 'One theory pointed a finger at Henry, Marquis of Waterford, who supposedly managed the amazing leaps attributed to Jack by means of carriage-springs strapped to his ankles.'
This is not as silly as it sounds, because I read somewhere else that a trick used by the Nazis in the war, was to attach springs to their boots to make them quicker.
I'm not sure when we'll be finished this book, but I'd say probably early next year. There were 140 pages last time I checked, and Richard and I are still going!
LEANNE |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 884
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 7:10 am: | |
G'day Sarah,
Sorry, I just checked and it was in the bottom link, above. I'll try to find the one about the war-time trick.
LEANNE |
Sarah Long
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 7:16 am: | |
Leanne,
No it's not all silly. People did things back then that to us today may seem silly anyway so we can't discount anything.
Dan,
"This is an absolutely ridiculous idea."
Why do you say that? Just because you may not think the idea of attaching carriage springs to your boots would be any good, it doesn't mean that someone over a hundred years ago thought the same. |
Thomas C. Wescott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 66
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 12:06 am: | |
Interesting thread, though, like so many others, it quickly wandered off topic. Ha ha. Personally, I think the name of 'Jack the Ripper' carried with it two influences: John Pizer, ol' would-be Leather Apron himself, inspired the words by being referred to in the papers as a guy named 'Jack' who 'ripped' his victims (this is prior to the 'Dear Boss' letter and, pardon me, I cannot quote the paper or date of this particular piece off the top of my head). The construction of the words could very well have been suggested by a historical figure who's name had only recently been revived by the book 'Dracula' and thrust back into the public conscious - Vlad the Impaler. A very powerful name, indeed, emulated in 'Jack the Ripper'. Never know, could be. 
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Alan Sharp
Chief Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 601
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 6:31 am: | |
Tom,
Dracula was not published until 1897, nine years after the murders, so it is not really possible for it to have inspired the name. At the time of the murders Bram Stoker was still working as theatre manager at the Lyceum. It's more likely the other way round, that Dracula was inspired in part by Jack the Ripper.
Cheers
Alan |
Thomas C. Wescott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 67
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 7:22 pm: | |
Alan,
Good point! It would appear I had its publication year confused with that of 'Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde'. Regardless, it's not impossible that Vlad the Impaler's name influenced Jack the Ripper; though the opposite would be impossible!
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Alex Chisholm
Detective Sergeant
Username: Alex
Post Number: 98
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 8:46 pm: | |
Hi Tom, Alan
The Daily Telegraph, 17 Nov. 1888, page 5 contained the following little gem:
A CURIOUS addition to the inner history of the Theatre Royal, Drury-lane, has been made by an incidental allusion in Mr. JOHN COLEMAN’S entertaining “Players and Playwrights” to the bygone custom of “packing” theatrical audiences. The vivacious writer tells us that a former lessee of Old Drury maintained in permanent employment a functionary known as “Jack the Packer,” who was always ready to provide a compact cohort of loud-voiced and horny-handed auxiliaries to make an uproar in the theatre in the interests of the management.
Perhaps the originator of Jack the Ripper was a theatrical type, who had heard of Jack the Packer or read Coleman’s book. Add to this Vlad the Impaler and the ‘stage Irish’ of the Lusk letter and we could start making a case against Bram Stoker. 
Best Wishes
alex
|
Thomas C. Wescott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 72
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 9:35 pm: | |
Alex,
Very interesting. My, you're so familiar with the Daily Telegraph, you'd almost think you wrote the book on it!
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Alex Chisholm
Detective Sergeant
Username: Alex
Post Number: 99
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 10:04 pm: | |
Now Tom, I think you must be confusing me with the grumpy old Jock who collaborated with those DiGrazia and Yost blokes.
This happy chappie finds the ‘sensationalistic balderdash’ of another publication far more interesting. 
All the Best
alex
|
Thomas C. Wescott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 74
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 11:59 pm: | |
'Ripperologist', perhaps? (just kidding, Paul/Chris/Eduardo!)
T-Dubs |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 224
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 7:21 am: | |
"Jack The Reaper"?.."Jack the (Grim) Reaper"?
You knew of course, Bram Stoker was an ancestor of Ripperpologist DANIEL FARSON? Dan wrote his relatives biography.
Enjoyed Alex Chisholm's annecdote about "Jack The Packer". |
Kelly Robinson
Sergeant
Username: Kelly
Post Number: 34
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 10:33 am: | |
I've read some of the penny dreadful versions of Springheeled Jack and I've always thought there were a lot of parallels between his character and that of the legendary Jack the Ripper. Not in fact, of course, but the mythological Ripper who wears a cape and moves without making a sound.
As characters of legend, they have a lot in common.
Kelly
"The past isn't over. It isn't even past."
William Faulkner |
Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 757
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 1:27 pm: | |
Hi, all
I am not sure that it can be determined that "Jack the Ripper" derived from Springheeled Jack or from Jack Shepherd as might be thought. As noted, the name "Jack" was common usage, Jack Sprat, Jack and Jill, Jack Tar, Union Jack, blackjack, Jack of Diamonds, the game of jacks, and so on. See "Jack O' Words" for a long list of examples of the use of "Jack" in different names, nursery rhymes, terms, etc., throughout history.
In addition, the word "ripper" appears to have been a word in general usage, often to mean something spectacular or wonderful, eyecatching, though not necessarily bloody.
We have discussed previously that a "ripper bill" was a type of bill in American government--
"The Legislature has passed a ripper bill gerrymandering the city of Cleveland so as to perpetuate Republican rule there. But it will likely turn out a boomerang."
Newark (Ohio) Daily Advocate, March 19, 1887
Do such American occurrences of the word "ripper" bolster the idea that the Dear Boss letter contains Americanisms, and that the writer of the letter could have been an American?
All the best
Chris
*************
"No doubt Jack the Ripper excused himself on the grounds that it was human nature."
A. A. Milne
|
Neil Cooper
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 6:14 am: | |
Sensationalist balderdash? Could that be the (deep breath) Daily Mail? The name Jack turns up everywhere connected to crime, but I'm suprised no one here has thought of Jack Sheppard, the early 18th century housebreaker and prison escapist.
http://www.exclassics.com/newgate/ng173.htm
William Ainsworth's romantised retelling of Sheppard's story was published in 1848 and was followed by a flurry of penny dreadfuls and plays that mutated Jack from rebellious scamp to murderous rogue. After an apprentice claimed he killed his master after seeing a play on Sheppard, new plays on about him were banned. It was said that Victorian pauper children who couldn't recognise biblical figures such as Moses or even their own Queen, had a good knowledge of the life and escapes of Jack Sheppard. Also Jack was born in Spitalfields and thus I reckon on this being the reason for the "Jack" part of the killer's label. As for the "Ripper", it might be a reference to High Rippers, or it might be because that's what he did. Oh and Sheppard was quite partial to wenches, so it might be a distasteful gag. |
Alex Chisholm
Detective Sergeant
Username: Alex
Post Number: 100
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 11:13 pm: | |
Hi Neil
Sensationalistic balderdash was Tom’s term for a Star report on the Stride Murder thread, Wed. May 26 @ 10:14pm. As I don’t hold to this popular perception, I simply registered my preference for reading the Star as opposed to the at least equally unreliable other contemporary newspapers I’ve come across.
I don’t know that people here have not thought of Jack Shepard. I for one agree with Chris George that any number of Jacks – Spring Heeled Jack, Jack Shepard, Jack the Packer, Jack in the Box, Jack the Giant Killer, Jack Tar, et.al – or none of the above, could have influenced the originator of Jack the Ripper. As I see it, your guess is as good as anyone’s, but we are unlikely to ever know.
Best Wishes
alex
|
Thomas C. Wescott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 87
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 11:57 am: | |
Alex,
You mean to say you think the Star's version of what Schwartz saw is correct and Swanson's report is not? You should join the thread and speak your mind, man!
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Alex Chisholm
Detective Sergeant
Username: Alex
Post Number: 101
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 1:04 pm: | |
Hi Tom
That’s not what I think at all. Personally, I wouldn’t bet my shirt on either account being all that correct.
I simply don’t subscribe to the all too popular view that reports by officials, and even some other newspapers, must always be more reliable, because the Star can be dismissed as sensationalistic balderdash. ‘Tis not necessarily so.
Best Wishes
alex
|
Busy Beaver
Sergeant
Username: Busy
Post Number: 16
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 1:44 pm: | |
I've got it! Jack was Australian...
Jack mate, what a ripper!!
Busy Beaver |
Thomas C. Wescott
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 93
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 9:05 pm: | |
Alex,
I was dismissing that particular piece, that happened to appear in the Star, as balderdash, due to the replacement of the pipe with a knife, which from official records is clearly nothing Schwartz hinted at. Had that piece appeared in the Daily Telegraph or Pall Mall Gazette, I would think the same thing.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Alex Chisholm
Detective Sergeant
Username: Alex
Post Number: 102
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 9:56 pm: | |
Hi Tom
I’m pleased to hear you would be even-handed in dismissing this report, no matter in which newspaper it had originated.
For my part, despite the fact that the Star report seems difficult to reconcile with Swanson’s, and may well contain elaborations by Schwartz, the interpreter, or the reporter, I still wouldn’t dismiss it as balderdash or useless as evidence. It simply needs to be considered with great caution, as should all sources.
But, hey, it’s no big deal.
All the Best
alex
|
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 363
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 11:18 pm: | |
To Mr. Cooper,
William Harrison Ainsworth's novel, JACK SHEPPARD was published in 1839, not 1848. And the claim that it influenced a killer was due to a comment made by Francois Benjamin Courvoisier, the valet who robbed and murdered his employer Lord William Russell in a Park Lane house in 1840. Ainsworth's novel was one of several at the time, starting with Charles Dickens' OLIVER TWIST, were called "the Newgate novels". There was also one about Dick Turpin by Ainsworth. The comment from Courvoisier caused a public revulsion (momentary) from crime novels.
Jeff Bloomfield |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 225
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 9:31 am: | |
When Lleyton Hewitt won at Wimbledon a couple of years ago, his first utterance to the crowd was
a familiar (in Australia) Australianism:
" You little Ripper!"-
Meaning "You beauty!"...
Not so sure it was popular in Australia back in the 1880's though.
In the 1980's a Sydney tyre company (Jax) had a slogan: "Jax the ripper Tyre for the ripper deal"! |
Neil Cooper
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 6:07 am: | |
To Mr Bloomfied,
Sorry about that. I've just checked in Lucy Moore's "The Thieves Opera" and you're right of course - 1839. Also I probably overstated the name connection, but I wouldn't want Jack Sheppard being overlooked, God bless 'im. Little scamp! |
Donato Fasolini
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 3:03 pm: | |
Hi
A little idea. The similarity between the word ripper and the word reaper can't suggest that Jack, in his mind, gave at his work a sense apocalyptical? Does He see at herself as a purifying?
Donato Fasolini
It’s catching you but you don’t see}The reaper is you and the reaper is me |
Donato Fasolini
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 12:38 pm: | |
Hi all
Another idea. In The Times of 1 september 1888 the journalist writes "The weapon used would scarcely have been a sailor's jack knife, but a pointed weapon with a stout back--such as a cork-cutter's or shoemaker's knife. In his opinion it was not an exceptionally long-bladed weapon." If the murder loves read about his work on Polly, he cannot take from here his name? A sailor’s jack knife= Jack.
Or he cannot was a sailor that want give evidences to police (evidences real o not real)?
Someone had already say it about that article? I search in my Cd Casebook but I ‘m find nothing.
Bye
Donato Fasolini
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2746
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 2:09 pm: | |
Hi
I believe that "ripper" was also a mining term.
Robert |
Donato Fasolini
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 4:44 pm: | |
Another idea. About my last post in this thread: can Jack be the name that the murder give at his knife (I mean to sailor's jack knife)? Many men, I think at world war, used give names at their weapons (guns etc.)…..it’s only an little idea (probably a silly idea), what you think?
Donato Fasolini
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Donato Fasolini
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 12:42 pm: | |
Anybody can say me what thinks about my idea? The killer should had read the article about Polly (on the Star) and say “Hi, the journal thinks that I had employed a sailor’s jack knife for my little funny games…….so I can call myself Jack as my knife”. I donno if someone has give this interpretation in the past, than if I had repeated sorry (I am new and I don’t want annoy the others with stale ideas )
Donato Fasolini
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sam
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 8:10 am: | |
This is my first post be gentle! This is probably been said lots of times already but the first 2 and the last 2 letters of 'James Maybrick' spell 'JACK' |
Neil Cooper
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 7:59 am: | |
Haven't been here for a while. It seems most of these ideas on the derivation of the name rely on the killer having thought up the name. I thought the common sense approach was that it was a journalist. If you read the from hell letter, (not the film) and take that to be THE genuine whitechapel murderer correspondence, it's obvious clever word games and puns and retoric about "funny little games" and "just for jollies" were over the head of the killer. By which I mean, he wasn't clever enough to write them. Obviously this stands in opposite to the idea of an educated doctor being the killer, but still. I've certainly never considered "Dear Boss" and "Saucy Jack" to be anything but a hoax, thus severing the tie between killer and name. |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 143
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 4:26 pm: | |
Dear Neil
In the latest Ripperologist,Nov.#56, Tom Wescott has an interesting article on one possibility as to how JTR's moniker came about.
In the Popular Romances of the West of England, there was a legend in Cornwall named Jack The Tinker.
It appears the legend has to do with The Tinker's introducing the knowledge of tin to the Cornish people.
Its well worth the time reading this story,I might add.
How |
D. Radka
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 12:18 pm: | |
"Its well worth the time reading this story,I might add."
>>Which may well be a more substantial investment for some than for others. |
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