| Author |
Message |
    
Dustin
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 8:37 pm: | 
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1st) What exactly were the social reactions to JtR... as in, what reforms came about because of these grisly deaths (did any directly effect prostitution?)
2nd) Does anyone think that there was any correlation between the massive amounts of prostitution and JtR... Like do you think he was technically an extreme view of backlash against this immorality? If so, why?
3rd) I researched some articles about there being a Jill the Ripper. It is usually objected harshly though. What are some reasons that it had to be a man (besides the obvious reason that some of the deceased were seen with men?)
Oh and does anyone know where I could get the FBI profile on Jack the Ripper? That would certainly answer some questions I have on him!!! |
Scott Suttar
Inspector
Username: Scotty
Post Number: 171
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 9:50 pm: |
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Hi Dustin,
Not to present evidence that it could not have been a female killer, but rather to say this.
In the investigation of crimes such as these often detectives or media will throw up suggestions which might be considered. These are generally either logical deductions or come under the guise of saying "let's check all avenues and leave no idea out".
In the Miller's Court murder women's clothing was found partly burnt in the fire. This led to the theory at least in the papers that Jack could have been disguised as a woman. In reality the clothing probably belonged to an acquaintence of Mary's.
What i'm saying is that I have no evidence to rule out a female killer, but that the subject was only brought up in relation to the Whitechapel murders through misinformation and speculation. There is no evidence to point towards a female killer either.
Scotty.
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Sarah Long
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 1330
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 4:48 am: |
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Dustin,
Not sure about there being an FBI file on Jack seeing as how he killed in London, England. I think it would be Scotland Yard you would need to get in touch with. Most of (if not all) the information from the files are out in books now anyway.
Also, I don't think that Jack the Ripper affected prostitution at all. These women still needed to get money and the risk of being Jack's next victim was very low really when you think about how many prostitutes there were in that whole area.
Sarah
Smile and the world will wonder what you've been up to 
Smile too much and the world will guess 
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2343
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 6:09 am: |
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Sarah,
I think Dustin means the profile FBI conducted on JtR in the late 1980s.
Dustin,
John Douglas from the FBI:s Behavioural Science Unit made a famous profile on Jack the Ripper and it is covered in his book "The Cases That Haunts Us" (search for it in Amazon, and you get a lot of hits both in US and English editions).
He also appears with his profile together with FBI profiler John Hazelwood in a Ripper documentary called "The Secret Identity of Jack the Ripper", where they put forward their information and conclusions in a board panel discussion. You can find this video on Amazon also.
To your points:
There is really no reason to suspect a female murderer, and for several reasons:
-- it is very unrepresentative for women to conduct serial murders involving mutilations (although it actually has happened a couple of times); we have so few examples of this in crime history, that this is generally regarded as a MO and signature used by men, while poisoning for example is considered strictly female approaches.
-- It is usually regarded that the murders did take some strength and physical ability to perform
-- Like you say, it doesn't fit any of the witness descriptions.
I just guess the police didn't find anything relevant in pursuing such a direction, and they were of course right.
Regarding prostitution,
As Sarah says, it had very little, if no impact at all on prostitution -- and if it did it was only temporary on only slightly. Women in these situations are desperate need of money and they really have no choice but to continue. It all comes down to deep social circumstances and poor living conditions.
All the best
G, Sweden
"Want to buy some pegs, Dave?"
Papa Lazarou
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Nicholas Smith
Detective Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 125
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 4:07 pm: |
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G'day Dustin,
There is an FBI file on Tumblety but you'd have to get in touch with Steve about that one. Scotland Yard and the FBI both had files on him.
As for changes that the murders had on Whitechapel - they were almost immediate, the women got drunker and the prices for their services went up about half a pee.
And as for the 'Jill' theory - that was kicked out years ago. If you check out the witness statements you'll see that all the victims were seen and 'heard' talking to a bloke before they were they were murdered.
Jules |
Phil Hill
Chief Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 957
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 11:44 am: |
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But Jules, not all IMMEDIATELY before they were killed. Nichols' last sighting was by a female friend sometime before her body was found - so no sighting of her with/or talking to a man (though she did imply indirectly that she had had customers - ie the new "bonnet" she had acquired).
Chapman and Eddowes were reported talking to a man shortly before their deaths. In Strides' case (assuming her a JtR victim) she seems to have been assailed by at least one man.
But with Kelly, given doubts about the time of her murder - again there is no close link between a sighting of her with a particular man, and her death. Hutchinson implies things - but his testimony has been questioned.
Phil |
Nicholas Smith
Detective Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 126
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 7:57 pm: |
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G'day Phil, yeah mate, agreed with Polly, but the others???? They were seen talking to men, and yes - Hutchinson's 'story' does leave a lot tyo be desired.
Anyway mate, I'm knackered. It's almost 1.00am here and I've got the circus coming around tommorrow (The family and kids) so I'll have a yarn again with you again tomorrow - if I can get on the computer:-)
Take care mate,
Jules |
Donald Souden
Chief Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 770
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 8:31 pm: |
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Jules,
Tumblety shuffled on and off stage much too early to have an FBI "jacket," as the Bureau wasn't created until 1920 or so. Now, because of suggestions he was implicated in the Lincoln assassination and other naughtiness, there may well be lots of federal files on him somewhere. But I know little about him and don't much care.
Where is Malta Joe when we need him? He seems to have his fingers on a lot of Tumblety information.
Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
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Nicholas Smith
Detective Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 127
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 4:22 pm: |
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G'day Don,
Yeah mate, you might be right about the FBI file on Tumblety, but the American coppers did have a file on him regardless of what they were called. Stewart Evans wrote a very good book about Tumblety and was able to tie him in with the Lincoln assination albiet a minor role.
Anyway mate, there was a file on him.
Jules |
Rosey O'Ryan
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 12:29 pm: |
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Hi All,
The 'FBI & Jack the Ripper' has become an urban myth. To all dreamers out there...wakey, wakey! The Federal Bureau of Investigation have NO CONNECTION TO ANY PREVIOUS> CONTEMPORANEOUS> MODERN> STUDIES, relating to the Whitechapel killer of 1888.
Rosey :-) |
Nicholas Smith
Detective Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 129
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 8:04 am: |
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G'day Rosey,
Please read page 230 of Stewart Evans book ' First American Serial Killer'.
Cheers
Jules |
Stanley D. Reid
Inspector
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 441
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 5:41 pm: |
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Hi all,
Not a total myth.
The FBI took some of its historical data from the files of Pinkerton's Detective Agency which had some loose ties to the JTR investigation. In fact, Abberline went to work for them after he left the Met.
An off-shoot of Pinkerton's was formed in the early 1900s that became the FBI by name at a later date.
Best wishes,
Stan
(Message edited by Sreid on October 13, 2005) |
Nicholas Smith
Detective Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 130
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 5:52 pm: |
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G'day Stan, I agree with you but am too tired to make comments tonight.
I'll post again tomorrow mate
Cheers
Jules |
Rodney Gillis
Detective Sergeant
Username: Srod
Post Number: 57
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 6:02 am: |
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Hi Stan,
Considering any information from Pinkerton's Agency is risky business. His information during the Civil War was inaccurate more than not. Still, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Rod |
yasha clark
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 9:31 pm: |
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I was just wondering maybe Jack had a partner a fellow prostitute. My theory is that she did not want any compititiona dn jack was the way a husband maybe a boyfriend with a temper. He did kill most of the women but she wanted to get in on the action to. think about it. The ones that died maybe had done something to her in the past. It is a theory but coudl happen. |
Nicholas Smith
Detective Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 132
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 9:38 am: |
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G'day Yasha,
There would have been too much competition out there even had 100 Jacks been at work.
Jules |
