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Bruce Dibble
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 1:41 pm: | 
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Hello people.
One question which has often occurred to me is:Did Jack use a lamp or lantern?
This seems particularly relevant when considering the Eddowes murder and in particular,the delicate mutillations to her eyelids.
I find it hard to believe that this sort of intricate cutting could have been performed in that dimmest corner of Mitre Square without the aid of a localised source of light.
At first thought,one might think that the use of a lamp might be too risky in that it might attract to much attention.
However,nobody actually saw the killer in the act of killing a so nobody can rule out the posibility either.
I know that no witness every testified to having seen a suspect carrying a lamp.....or did they?
Mary Anne Cox claimed that the man with the blotchy complexion and carroty whiskers carried a quart pot of ale.
Now this may sound silly but seeing as Mrs.Cox was behind Kelly and her client as she entered the court,could't she have mistaken an unlit lamp for a quart pot,which in the dark I think would have looked quite simmilar?.Particularly the type of lanterns carried by policemen.
Also wasn't there a empty gap in the flesh piled on the bedside table?
Just the place to position a lamp or lantern!
Now I'm not implying that Mary Kelly's killer was a policeman or a night watchman,I'm merely suggesting that he may have had a lamp.
All the best,
Bruce Dibble. |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1006
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 11:52 am: |
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Bruce,
If I remember correctly the idea that a miners lamp could have been used was mentioned at some point on the old boards.
I did receive a post from Stewart Evans regarding an experiment he did with his Bulls Eye lamp. According to him the lamp got extremely hot extremely quicky but gave off little light (.....when eventually he did manage to light it !). Infact he stated that to read he had to hold the lamp fairly close the the reading matter. More of a marker or indicator than a tool to see by.
He also mentioned the cost of running such things which is why they were used sparingly by the Bobbies. And, as I mentioned before, a pain in the ar$e trying to light it
It is an interesting point though.....may even explain the empty match box !!
Personally I feel it would be too cumbersome to light, manouver and then to put out and store what would have been a very hot piece of kit.
But as you say, no witness saw a lamp.....but no witness watched the actual murderer at work.
Monty
Our little group has always been and always will until the end...
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1053
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 10:48 am: |
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Hi All,
Could the killer have used something else for instant but temporary light at one or more of the darker crime scenes? A piece of material, or even a bonnet perhaps, offered to his proposed victim as a gift, but after killing her did he plan to set it alight with a match, and allow the 'evidence' to burn just while he needed its light to work by?
Was he angry with Liz for not bringing the piece of green velvet with her for their 'date'?
Imagine the scene in Mitre Square, if he had to use several matches trying to keep a bonnet or similar item alight for the duration, and then - blow it - the last one goes out, luckily after he had bagged his bodily trophies and marked Kate's face, but with the effect of plunging the scene back into sudden and therefore, for him, total darkness. He would have needed to grope around in the pitch black to find any offerings left unburnt, and he may not have had time, although we know an empty matchbox was listed as found in Kate's pocket.
Love,
Caz
X
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1076
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 8:57 am: |
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Caz,
I refuse to believe that corner was pitch black.
Dark aye, but not so dark as you cannot see something.
I did some calculations some while back using Fosters map and what I estimated to be the length a gas lamp beam reaches. I figured Jack would only had been a foot or so away from being in the light.
The problem Harvey had is the lamp that would have been situated above his head (if he did indeed do what he said he did). It would have been very difficult to have seen out of that light. In fact, the best place would have been around 4-6 feet forward of that lamp. I have little doubt that had he done this he would have stumbled on Kates body and her killer.
But thats just my opinion.
Monty
Our little group has always been and always will until the end...
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Sarah Long
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 1100
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 9:42 am: |
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All,
In 1888, because of the dim lighting at night time I would presume that people back then were extremely used to seeing in light, which we would now have to strain our eyes for.
Sarah
Smile and the world will wonder what you've been up to 
Smile too much and the world will guess 
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1081
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 12:28 pm: |
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Sarah,
Yeah, I agree.
We are so spoiled today.
Monty
(Message edited by monty on May 04, 2004)
Our little group has always been and always will until the end...
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1749
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 1:50 pm: |
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Sarah, Monty,
I may be out on deep waters here, but my biggest problem with the lamp is that it's not very consistent with someone who don't want to be spotted. Although those old lamps didn't lit up that much - or rather, not at all - the small bowl of light from it would nevertheless have made the killer easier to spot. It would be a rather great risk to take, as I see it.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1084
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 9:32 am: |
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Glenn,
Its a great risk full stop aint it?
The darkest, unfrequented spot in that square would have been behind the gate or where Kate was found. Seeing as the gate was locked the choice was rather limited.
My opinion? It was the best spot. Dark, secluded, a good view up church passage. Far enough away to escape those that enter via St James passage or Mitre st.
Ideal really.
Monty
I don't share your greed, the only card I need is
The Ace Of Spades.....and dont forget the joker 
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Sarah Long
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 1105
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 9:39 am: |
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Glenn, Monty,
Did anyone used to walk around at night with a lamp? I don't think they did but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. What about all thoses prostitutes taking their clients into dark corners were there were no police and not much chance of anyone seeing them and yet I presume they could see what was going on.
Sarah
Smile and the world will wonder what you've been up to
Smile too much and the world will guess
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 1056
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 9:48 am: |
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Hi Monty,
My point was merely that if Jack did use matches and/or another light source to help him with Kate's facial mutilations, the darkness, for him, would be temporarily that much more intense if his personal light source suddenly failed for any reason.
Love,
Caz
X |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1086
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 10:49 am: |
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Hi Caz,
In that case my reply would be yes, I see your point.
Monty
I don't share your greed, the only card I need is
The Ace Of Spades.....and dont forget the joker
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Steven Moore
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 1:57 pm: |
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Could the lamp have a cover? During the the second world war, a good bit after the murders, people had lamps with a type of shutter fitted for blackout purposes. Could the ripper have fashioned a cover for a lamp that would block any revealing light and which could be quickly opened for him to perform the murders and closed again for the getaway. He was after all good with his hands. ;-) |
Dustin Gould
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 12:16 am: |
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I think it would have been counterproductive for Jack to have had any light source next to his person. Because essentially, that's one more light to illuminate his features, should he come into contact with someone, while in the midst of his evisceration. Which makes all the more sense, when you take into consideration how crudely said evisceration was performed. |
Julie Lambert
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 10:52 am: |
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I don't think a prostitute would have needed a light to guide her client to the relevant parts!
However, the killer may have needed light to see where blood had been desposited on his person so that he could clean away the most visable amounts. As to whether he needed a light to carry out the multilations, it depends on whether he was making deliberate and symbolic cuts or merely 'ripping' away at the face and stomach. He could have used his hands to guide him.
No one hasd considered whether he used a candle. Would this have been possible of would it have flickered and died?? he could have carried a candle and matches around quite easily. |
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