|
 |
 |
|
|
|
| |
Thread |
Last Poster |
Posts |
Pages |
Last Post |
  | Archive through July 30, 2004 | Glenn L Andersson | 50 | 1 | 7-30-04 11:28 pm |
| |
 Closed: New threads not accepted on this page |
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
    
Kevin Braun
Detective Sergeant
Username: Kbraun
Post Number: 112
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 10:58 am: |       |
In 1979 East Windsor N.J., a very pretty girl named Donna Macco disappeared from the basement apartment of her parents home. The police were called. They discovered signs of a struggle and numerous blood (later determined to be Donna's) stains. A large rug was also missing. A day later they found her car in a parking lot about five miles from the Macco home. The front seat was covered with blood.
The police searched factories, homes, retention ponds and nearby woods. Blood hounds and even an Indian tracker were called to no avail. After a week or so the Macco family called a psychic. I don't remember his name but I do remember that he had long hair combed straight back and the local paper reported that he chain smoked and drank a fifth of vodka in less than two hours. After driving around for hours, the psychic told his driver to stop. He got out of the car, walked around, then instructed the police to search "this area", which was about ten miles from the Macco home, in a wooded area, near a stream that emptied into a small lake.
The police searched the area and found nothing. In November of 2003 (twenty four years later), a boy scout counselor on a nature walk noticed a rolled up rug with what looked like a human foot sticking out by the edge of the lake (N.J. was at the end of a year long drought). It was Donna Macco. The location of the body was about seventy-five feet from where the psychic stood when he told the police to search "this area".
Take care,
Kevin
|
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1943
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
Interesting, Kevin.
We have a couple of similar examples here in Sweden as well.
The problem is, that a psychic medium doesne't get a voice in his/her head saying: "here it is!", but what they usually get is a mental picture of a spot and maybe some initial of what the place is called, and then they have to orientate themselves the best they can. So therefore it is not always easy to find the exact spot, even if the medium is a good one.
And the police have usually not the capacity or means to dig up a complete area.
Kevin, what was the police's reaction to it?
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on July 31, 2004)
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Kevin Braun
Detective Sergeant
Username: Kbraun
Post Number: 113
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 1:01 pm: | |
Hi Glenn,
I talked on the phone to my brother (who still lives in East Windsor N.J.) after he read my post. He said the body was found more like seventy-five yards (not feet) from where the psychic stood. According to the Trenton Times, the body would have been four to six feet under water in 1979. The police did not utilize divers to search the lake because they didn't have any faith in the drunken psychic.
I am not sure what the police's reaction to the find was. To the best of my knowledge, they made no public comment. One of the reasons I made the initial post was I thought you might have heard of this psychic; active in the late 70's - 80's, famous, money motivated, chain smoker, heavy drinker, foreign (Germanic?) accent. I will try to find the name.
It is a wonder why this case didn't receive more publicity. That said, I think this may have been an amazing coincidence.
Take care,
Kevin |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1946
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 1:18 pm: | |
Hi Kevin,
Well, coincidence or not (although I find this to be too much of a coincidence for my taste), it doesen't surprise me one bit that the authorities didn't want it to get any publicity.
No, I am actually not that well read on American or English psychic mediums; I deal mostly with Scandinavian ones (although I know of some English psychics, but that is mostly because they have appeared on Scandinavian television). So no, I haven't heard of him -- although the description of the hair-do sounds a bit like my medium friend (not the chain-smoking and vodka drinking, though). 
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on July 31, 2004)
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Kevin Braun
Detective Sergeant
Username: Kbraun
Post Number: 114
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 2:01 pm: | |
Hi Glenn,
The guy's name is John Monti ( in 1979, the "super psychic"). He now bills himself as a "psychic detective". He seems to be working on some heavy-weight cases. I'll see what else I can find out about him.
Take care,
Kevin |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1949
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 2:04 pm: | |
OK, Kevin.
Thanks for the info.
He is complete news to me.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Howard Brown
Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 14
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 10:12 pm: | |
Hi Glenn...
Respecting your opinion fully, I would also be less than honest in not mentioning that there is, at least to me,less evidence of a sexual serial killer at work in the Autumn Of Terror than an occultist at work.
The first four victims were killed at the four points of the compass,which is in keeping with occult ritual.
The victims were killed in dark and obscure areas,which is in keeping with occult ritualism.
Symbols ( chevrons ) were cut into the face of one victim which can be traced to the occult.
In occultism,often a set number of victims is pre-determined.
Two uteri were taken [ one wonders why not a finger or hand or something easier to take ]. Uteri have been know to be used in making candles [ is that whacked out or what? }
The parts of the body which were attacked on each victim, have connections with the body, for the month they were killed. Again, a symbol of occultism.
A kidney and a heart [ okay...a 50/50 chance it was taken ] were taken. These organs are used in making magic potions...Oy vey !
No signs of sexual penetration [ impossible,in this case to say 'yes" to MJK, so the burden of proof lies on those who would declare it in the affirmative...]
Assuming that the Ripper was a stranger to each of the Canonical Five [just to simplify things]...the machinations of the Ripper are in direct conflict with virtually every physical attack on a woman, by a strange man. Of course,women are robbed by men and punched in the face in the process. Thats not considered a sexual crime. Nor is it when women are victims of domestic abuse [ excluding the forced-upon sexual entry by a drunk husband,for example ].
However,since prostitutes were eviscerated and they do deal in sex for sale,many of us,perhaps not you,Glenn,take it as an article of faith that the murder/eviscerations were of a sexual nature.
In closing,have any of you ever heard of a murder,much less 5 murders,where despite the savagery of the crimes,male-on-female,where sexual penetration was NOT in evidence? If not,I wonder why we label the Ripper Murders as a sexual serial killing,since this would be a first in that field. A non-penetration sexual serial killer.....
Now we drink...again,Glenn !! |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1963
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 10:37 pm: | |
Hey, Howard... drinking buddy!
Ouch, I hate to tell you this, but I am quite allergic to those kinds of constructed ritualistic scenarios. Those connections one can easily invent if one wants to see them. I admit that I don't.
The details in the Ripper murders are quite consistent with those that we see in other serial killings, also of modern design. And those have generally nothing to do with the occult whatsoever. The Ripper murders were made by a sexual perpetrator, probably also driven by rage.
"...have any of you ever heard of a murder,much less 5 murders,where despite the savagery of the crimes,male-on-female,where sexual penetration was NOT in evidence? If not,I wonder why we label the Ripper Murders as a sexual serial killing,since this would be a first in that field. A non-penetration sexual serial killer...."
Yes, a hundred times or maybe even a thousand.
I think you make a serious error here, Howard. Sexual serial killing has necessarily nothing to do with sexual penetration, rape or intercourse.
For this type of killer, the sexual motivation lies in the mutilations, which is a part of his sexual fantasies. They may not have anything to do with sexuality to us, but for a twisted mind with twisted fantasies it has.
A numerous number of serial offenders have expressed their sexual fantasies this way, also in their own words, and if I would pile them up here and load off examples, it would fill the whole website.
It can take itself several different expressions: mutilations, cannibalism etc.
For some it's a way out since they may be impotent or have a sexual disfigurements.
So I think there is a misunderstanding here, Howard. Sexual serial killing has not much to do with penetration or sex as we "normal" people interpret it, and the sexual forces are the most classic ones that triggers these type of killers.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Howard Brown
Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 16
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 11:06 pm: | |
Hey Glenn....Before we get bombed from all the beer we are imbibing.........................................Sexual serial killing has necessarily nothing to do with sexual penetration, rape or intercourse.-Glenn A. above
Glenn, as you well know,many times crimes are made to appear as one sort,when in reality,they are in fact,a totally different one.
Even occultist crimes that result in murder can be considered sexual serial killings by the parameters and logic given by authorities.
Even robbing a woman can be considered a sexual crime,if the perpetrator went home and masturbated after the fact,using this broad brushed approach to crime.
If a man did in fact rob a woman and the woman belted the guy in the back of the head as he was ready to leave the scene, and it disturbed him enough to turn around and shoot the woman in the crotch region [ sorry for the visual ], the police would absolutely,with no hesitation,consider it a sexual crime,not a robbery first and foremost. This is an example of Occam's Razor at work. And most of the time,its correct....but not every time.
No,Glenn, I understand what you are saying about the dozens of cases that didn't have penetration [ most likely they would have,but the perpetrator may have not been able to rise to the occasion in real sexual encounters and cannibalism,et al,substituting other ways of violating women for the real thing ]..I understand.
Perhaps it is the nomenclature, sexual serial killer....To me,if there is a penis involved [ not being funny....],its a sexual serial killer for sure. Otherwise,unless admitted to, like the people you know to have admitted to as such, as substitution,its still up in the air and only our specualtion that it was a sexual serial killing....to me. This is a good repartee,so we ought to start sipping beer and not chug it.
By the way,before I forget,can you name a series of murders committed against prostitutes that didn't include penetration ? You don't have to go and check it out right now...just p.m. me when you can find a series. Thanks ! |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1966
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 8:53 am: | |
Hey Howard,
I think we are loosing the subject of this thread here (which is supposed to be about psychics), so we better make this breif.
I don't have a lot of time today (always time for sipping Guinness, though...), so I'll only name a few who has been categorized as sexual predators.
The victims don't have to be prostitutes, but can be any kind of woman -- from young girls to elderly women.
John Eric Armstrong - a warship sailor who strangled a number of prostitutes;
Gary Ridgway (The Green River Killer)
Jeffrey Dahmer - who thought he made love to his victims while he cut them to pieces and eat them
Bill Suff (The Riverside Prostitute Killer) - who strangled and mutilated his victims
And the list goes on.
In a number of other cases, the Hillside Stranglers and Ted Bundy, there are sexual encounter, sadism or rape involved in some of the murders, but only on some occasions, not all.
The important part for their sexual arousement is the sense of power to inflict pain to others, the mutilations (when such occurs) etc. The sexual encounter as such seems to be of minor importance.
It shall also be noted that, although these types of killers are labelled sexual predators, their crimes are also just as much originating from rage and a need to feel powerful. But somehow their acts for the part seem to give them sexual pleasure.
Finding serial killings that have an occult background is quite a harder task, though.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Howard Brown
Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 17
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 10:01 am: | |
Hey Glenn !
I hear you,buddy..the thread did stray.My apologies.
I'll post a response to this in its appropriate place. So with no further ado....
Back to the psychics ! |
Scott Suttar
Inspector
Username: Scotty
Post Number: 153
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 10:21 am: | |
OK, Ok, back to the psychics.........but first.
Just want to agree with Glenn here and perhaps add a little. In some ways the term sexual in "sexual serial killer" can be misconstrued as involving sexual contact. In fact most sexual serial killers get their kick from having power over the opposite sex. No sexual contact is necessary for them to be termed a sexual serial killer. I have been reading a lot about BTK an uncaught killer in Wichita who has suddenly started communicating with the police and local media after being silent for 25 years. Info can be found on him on casebook, I think in the "Shades of Whitechapel" thread. It appears he has never had sexual contact with his victims, he did however masturbate at the scene of his crimes when possible. We cannot know if JtR did similar as forensics at the time probably would not have picked it up, besides the police would not know to look for such a thing as they had never seen such crimes before. Despite our lack of evidence it is clear that Jack was definately a sexually motivated killer, he did not however need to have sex with his victims to make him one.
Scotty. |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1967
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 10:31 am: | |
Hey there Howard!
OK. Talk to you later.
Scotty,
Great post and a good summary.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Howard Brown
Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 19
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 4:04 pm: | |
Dear Mr. Suttar....I've taken this conversation to a new thread...../4920/10178.html"#DEDDCE"> |
Jon Smyth
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jon
Post Number: 146
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 6:10 pm: | |
Scott, you wrote, regarding semen at the crime scene:
"cannot know if JtR did similar as forensics at the time probably would not have picked it up, besides the police would not know to look for such a thing as they had never seen such crimes before."
They did actually, forensics were not necessary to determine if a prostitute had completed her business transaction. Semen on the clothes was not unusual, sometimes a woman would simply trap a clients penis between her thighs, or just use her hands.
Semen on the womans clothing is nothing to do with "these type of crimes", the police would see it regularly. It is simply an indication of prostitution.
Regards, Jon |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1980
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 9:54 pm: | |
Jon wrote:
"Semen on the clothes was not unusual, sometimes a woman would simply trap a clients penis between her thighs, or just use her hands.
Semen on the womans clothing is nothing to do with "these type of crimes", the police would see it regularly."
OK Jon. That is probably true and a good point.
Semen I suspect they would have managed to recognize (although not who it came from)...
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Scott Suttar
Inspector
Username: Scotty
Post Number: 154
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 10:58 pm: | |
Hi all,
Good points regarding the semen. I was not actually referring to semen on the victim or her clothes as much as just in her room. At least that was what had happened in the case I was referring to.
Scotty. |
|
Use of these
message boards implies agreement and consent to our Terms of Use.
The views expressed here in no way reflect the views of the owners and
operators of Casebook: Jack the Ripper.
Our old message board content (45,000+ messages) is no longer available online, but a complete archive
is available on the Casebook At Home Edition, for 19.99 (US) plus shipping.
The "At Home" Edition works just like the real web site, but with absolutely no advertisements.
You can browse it anywhere - in the car, on the plane, on your front porch - without ever needing to hook up to
an internet connection. Click here to buy the Casebook At Home Edition.
|
|
|
|
