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Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 237
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 5:52 pm: |       |
Hi Suzy
When I first walked into Durward Street in the the late eighties, all that was there was the Board School, Essex Wharf and another building next to Essex Wharf. Corrugated Iron fencing was on either side of the road.It was a cloudy day, windy but not cold. I walked into Durward Street from Brady Street, and as I walked down to the the spot Mary Ann Nichols was found, I felt a bit uneasy, there was a strange atmosphere which is hard to describe. I didn't experience that sort of feeling at any of the other murder sites except Swallow Gardens, Chamber Street side. Strangely I didn't know I was standing at Swallow Gardens entrance at the time, it wasn't until much later that I realised I was standing just outside its entrance. Both locations had a desolate look about them, which may account for it, I dunno.
Anyway it's not an feeling I will forget.
All the best
Rob |
Suzi Hanney
Chief Inspector
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 665
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 12:28 pm: | |
Hi Rob'
Agree with you....the old bucks row is still a verrrry spooky place but not as bad as Mitre Sq!
xxsuzi
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Emale73
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 2:59 am: | |
As an evangelical Christian, let me offer my opinion. I believe ghost sightings are really demonic spirits. The spirits of dead people go immediately to Heaven or hell. Demonic spirits walk the Earth however and are known to be drawn to violence, anger, or anything else evil. In the case of JTR, these sightings may simply be demonic spirits drawn to the events of those locations. Hence, since they witnessed the events, they simply replay them as a means of reliving the evil. |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 240
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 4:32 pm: | |
Hi Suzy
I find Mitre Square a bit to modern to pick up (I am not making any psychic claims)any atmosphere. I suppose I would feel the same about Durward Street now. There doesn't seem to be many places left that have any character left, and so wont leave much of an impression on me.
Hi Emale73
I am not a religious person myself, and I keep an open mind where ghosts are concern, but I would find it hard to believe that all ghosts are evil, just my opinion.
All the best
Rob |
Michael Raney
Inspector
Username: Mikey559
Post Number: 281
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 5:00 pm: | |
Emale73,
Question....are you of the opinion that Jack the Ripper was possessed?
Mikey |
Kris Law
Inspector
Username: Kris
Post Number: 235
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 8:54 am: | |
Emale73,
I've witnessed two "apparitions" that I believe were ghosts, and I didn't see an ounce of evidence that either were malevolent in anyway.
Well, maybe the second one had a weird sort of feeling that made a bunch of us bolt, but I don't know that it was evil.
But, then, I don't believe in demons, so . . .
-K |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1152
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 5:39 pm: | |
Hi all
I have found a reference to the ghost of jack himself apparently hurling himself off Westminster Bridge on 31st of December. The info as given is:
Leaping Shadow
Location: SW1; Westminster Bridge
Type: Haunting Manifestation
Date / time if known: Midnight 31 December (reoccurring)
Further comments: Just as the new year begins, a phantom man is said to throw himself off this bridge - many believe it to be the ghost of Jack the Ripper, taking his own life.
This was on this site:
http://www.paranormaldatabase.com/london/lonpages/sw1lon.htm
|
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1525
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 6:32 pm: | |
Emale73,
As a believer in the paranormal and the afterlife -- I have witnessed two apparitions as well, Kris -- I find it very hard to relate to your views upon the matter, Emale, although everyone naturally is entitled to their own beliefs and religious opinions that suits them.
I do think there are sinister spirits, but this has nothing to do with religion or demons. As far as I am concerned there is no hell. Spirits who wanders around on Earth are stuck between two worlds, those who are sinister are hardly demons, but may have been evil people in life -- which is why their personality remains intact as ghosts, until the can be set free and led into the light.
But demons -- no. Most paranormal sightings involving spirits are non-malicious and loving experiences, very seldom evil. Unfortunately Christianity (which I myself belong) has stamped ghosts and the paranormal as something evil coming from or destined for hell, which is a fallacy and a total misconception.
But I can agree on that there are forces that we should be careful with, and who feeds itself on human fear and bad vibes. But don't confuse it with regular ghost sightings or visits from spirits; they are usually harmless, although their visits may cause uncomfortable feelings at times.But those feelings are usually our own creations, and as far as I am concerned, "hell" is our own construction.
Just my personal beliefs and opinions -- take it or leave it.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on April 14, 2004)
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1526
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 6:38 pm: | |
Hi Rob C,
I agree that Mitre Square is completely rebuilt beyond recognition, but the original cobble stones are still there, and although modern buildings are framing the "square" today, the layout of the place is the same.
As a local historian, I have learnt that it isn't always necessary for the old buildings to be there, in order to get caught up in the place's special atmosphere. But of course, it helps...
I still think Mitre Square is spooky, just the same -- maybe because it still feels a bit desolate, especially after dark.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 245
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 5:49 pm: | |
Hi Glenn
Unfortunately, I need a bit more than cobbles to get my pulse racing. To me there is nothing like an old lived in building (or railway arch)for atmosphere. I need a bit more of a link to the past, to help jump start my imagination.
All the best.
Rob
P.S. on your recent trip here, did you get as far as Fournier Street? |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1541
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 6:15 pm: | |
Hi Rob,
Well, I see what you mean, although I do think there still is something special about Mitre Square, in spite of the terrible modern office buildings. I went there a couple of times, once at 11 p.m., not a soul in sight and it was completely dark. Not cosy.
Anyhow, I guess I have always been quite sensitive as far as moods and atmosphere is concerned. As long as it's possible to outline the original layout of the place, that is usually enough for me. I am quite used to studying old crime scenes or local spots that today is totally changed beyond recognition, so I guess I've bread a certain sense of imagination during my time as a local and crime historian, in order to make it possible to analyse an event linked to a certain place. It would be an impossible task otherwise.
Oh yes, I passed the Ten Bells and walked down Fournier Street. A very genuine and well kept street, although I guess it may have been a bit more shabby in 1888; it seemed somewhat clean, like a museum street. But very nice indeed. Another one that got me driving 100 years back was the narrow Artillery Passage.
The one I felt to be most genuine in a more gloomy and shabby way was Gunthorpe Street (former George Yard).
They have excellent Guinness in the White Hart pub (and an usually clean men's room, to my big surprise...). I didn't run into Klosowski, though... 
I missed Durward Street and Shallow Gardens, though. Was a bit short of time, but hopefully I will return as soon as possible anyway. I would give anything to be back in England and London at this very moment. 
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on April 15, 2004)
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 246
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 6:43 pm: | |
Hi Glenn
I know what you mean about Fournier Street, I am just glad the buildings are still standing.
Its places like Fournier Street and Artillery Passage that help transport me back to that era.
Near Whitechapel Underground Station is Woods Building, a narrow arch almost identical to the narrow Millers Court arch, walk through there and you probably get a whiff of what quite a few alleys smelt like back then, not very nice, but it cleared my blocked nose.
All the best
Rob |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1543
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 7:01 pm: | |
Hi Rob,
Thank you for that tip. I sure will keep that in mind for next time. Interesting.
"...walk through there and you probably get a whiff of what quite a few alleys smelt like back then, not very nice, but it cleared my blocked nose."
I can't wait... 
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Lisa Turner
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 4:09 am: | |
Hi All
My personal favourite for ghosty atmosphere was Durward Street (nee Bucks Row) before it was renovated into flats. I used to get some bagels down Brick Lane, sit there with a mate of mine at night overlooking the building. Back then (circa 1996) practically every window was broken. There is a photo in the picture section here showing how it was then, imagine it at night! It always seemed so isolated and quiet.
Luckily we gained access into there one night to have a look around. From the top floor you could see the roof of the London Hospital and sprawling 'City' which is so rapidly expanding itself. But for a while, I was in a dusty little corner of the disappearing Ripper's East End.
Special times.
Lisa. |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 249
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 6:41 pm: | |
Hi Lisa
Got to agree with you there. It was spooky enough during the day but at night
I admire your nerve in going into the board school as it was very dangerous, and at night.
This is close to how Durward Street looked on my first visit, take a year or so later
All the best
Rob |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1563
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 8:12 pm: | |
Hi Rob,
I see what you mean. When I look at that intriguing photo, I deeply regret I didn't have enough time to cross Brick Lane that far east. I agree, looks like the street that God forgot.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Lisa Turner
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 6:51 am: | |
Hi Rob,
I took some photos as well, I will have a go at trying to upload them soon.
Regards
Lisa |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 250
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:56 pm: | |
Hi Glenn, Lisa
Glenn, Durward Street looks nothing like the photo now. Modern flats, and I believe it is a school on the North side now has made Durward Street go the way of Mitre Square. At least the Board School is still standing, which helps conjure up an atmosphere. Also the majority of the buildings on the South side(actually on the far side of the underground tracks) are contemporary from 1888, which helps a lot.
Hi Lisa
Look forward to seeing your photos. The Board School was a very difficult building to photograph before it was cleaned up. Unless you had bright sunlight on it it was very difficult to pick out details from it.
Glenn, this is the back of Woods Building, taken from the footbridge which crosses Whitechapel underground station, behind me would be the South side of the Board School.
All the best
Rob |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1570
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:31 pm: | |
Hi Rob.
Thanks for the photo -- nice picture there with a lot of atmosphere.
Typical that modern buildings have been erected on Durward Street as well.
Talking about streets without a genuine feeling, Hanbury Street was also somewhat of a disappointment in that regards.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Alan Sharp
Chief Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 547
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 5:39 am: | |
Robert/Glenn
I find Woods Buildings to be one of the spookiest locations (assuming as many do that it was the Ripper's escape route from Buck's Row). Once you cross the footbridge, as the photo above shows, you get a real feel for what it would have been like back in 1888.
The other place I would recommend for anyone to get a similar sense of the area back then would be Angel Alley, the bottom part of which has not changed a lot in the last 116 years.
I have a good photo of Durward Street as it is now, but because I am STILL waiting for my new laptop to be delivered and have no imaging software on this old crock of a thing I can't resize it to load onto the thread. I'll try to do so in the next day or two. |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1009
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 12:35 pm: | |
Guys,
Gunthorpe Street blows my bellows. Always raises my hairs.....especially at night !
Monty
Our little group has always been and always will until the end... |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 818
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 4:05 pm: | |
Hi,
As remarked previously , I started visiting the sites 39 years ago, that was when a lot of the original buildings were standing, i also visited them in the autumn of 1965, and visited each site, on the relevant dates and times of the murders.
I remember the atmosphere well.to walk the streets of Whitechapel aged 18, in the middle of the night, alone with just ones imagination, was a extremely harrowing experience, I retraced all the steps known to me, Hutchinsons following of kelly at 2am on the 9th November, into Dorset street. etc etc.
I Hoped to obtain an atmosphere, what it would have been like , and I achieved that, and since then I have been a passionate follower of this subject.
Looking back , I was a strange teenager, one minute a tearaway against the Mods, and then a 18 year old historian.
Anyway, all of those experiences, have resulted in you having to endure all of my posts.
Regards Richard.
|
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1584
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 4:21 pm: | |
Monty,
I agree. Gunthorpe Street is incredible. Very genuine, at least the part closest to the arch leading to Whitechapel High Street; as we know George Yard buildings is no more. But the rest is just incredibly genuine and spooky. I loved it, and I also loved the Guinness in Chapman's old pub. It was great sitting in the window, looking out on the alley.
Alan,
Angel Alley. Thank you for the tip. I'll check it out next time.
Looking forward to the picture of Durward Street, Alan. Post it when you can.
Richard,
Really a shame that Dorset Street is gone. I don't have that much positive to say about the modern car park in its place...
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Alan Sharp
Chief Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 551
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 12:05 pm: | |
Okay, I have resized them. These were taken in February this year. The first is looking down the street from the board school, the second is where I estimate Polly Nichols body to have been.
 |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1024
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 12:32 pm: | |
Alan, Folks
Just to confirm what Alan estimates.
Pollys body would have been where the small bush is on the extreme right of the entrence in the second photo....and pause for breath. Next to the pillar butting the wall on the right.
Monty
PS Cant see any mountain tops on em. Sure Bucks Row was high enough for ya ??
Our little group has always been and always will until the end... |
Lisa Turner
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 7:35 am: | |
Just as I get around to posting some of my photos it tells me I have "exceeded my maximum dimensions" (cheeky I knew that years ago!) Anyone know what I am doing wrong (on uploading the picture, not the diet!!) |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 253
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 2:10 pm: | |
Hi Lisa
What I normally do is have a photo which is about 500 to 600 kb. I then put the photo I want to post over that one and save it as a jpeg image. It should be okay to post then.
If you get any problems, send them to me at rclack@supanet.com and I will resize them and post them for you.
All the best
Rob |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1766
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 6:46 pm: | |
Alan,
Splendid photos there on Durward Street (and so recent as well) - much appreciated for the likes of me who haven't gotten around to see the site in live and colour - yet.
Thanks again.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
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