| Author |
Message |
    
RipperHistorian
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 11:23 pm: |       |
I have a new idea for a couple of new suspects. I am wondering if somebody can help me out by telling me two things:
1) How do I get a detailed map of 1888 East End? One that will allow me to actually see specific houses and buildings and their addresses?
2) Where can I find references that will tell me which people were living at which addresses in 1888? In other words, if I am looking at a certain house, with a certain address, how do I find out who was living there?
Thanks,
Tim |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1069
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 12:23 pm: | |
Tim
1)The best bet for a detailed map is one of the Victorian Ordnanace surbey maps which are regularly for sale on Ebay (reprints not originals!)
2) Unless the building you are looking at is a business premises that would be listed in one of the street directories, the nearest you can get go the 1888 date we are all interested in is the 1891 census
Chris
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Thomas C. Wescott
Sergeant
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 30
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 9:37 pm: | |
Are you looking for 6 Fashion Street?
|
RipperHistorian
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 1:56 pm: | |
Thanks for the help Chris. It is greatly appreciated and I hope to be able to share my information with the group here once I get some more solid info.
Tim |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 7:41 pm: | |
Hi Tim
I was wondering if you would tell who your suspects are and why you think that they could be
JTR. My hobby is gathering as much info about all the suspects as possible. Im always interested in listening to new theories with an open mind |
Cludgy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 8:08 am: | |
Ripperhistorian.
The 1st edition 10 foot to the mile Ordnance survey map of 1851, is one of the most detailed maps on Earth. Mary Kellys room would be depicted about 1/8 the size of your computer monitor, on this map.
But did no. 13 Millers Court exist in 1851? The reason I ask, is because the 10 foot to a mile 1851 map was such a mammoth effort,they didn't do a repeat (as they did with smaller scale maps in subsequent surveys)
A good map to consult would be the Ordnance Survey 25 inch to one mile map of 1891. This will also show individual buildings, though nowhere near as detailed as the 1851 10 foot map |
M.Mc.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 1:50 pm: | |
Do we really need to find more suspects? I would like very much to take one off forever. Lewis Carroll since he's one of the best writers since Shakespeare. God help me if anyone puts Edgar Allan Poe or Oscar Wilde or any other arthur from that era on this list of suspects too. I think unless a real clue comes out somewhere about Jack the Ripper we are left to ponder endlessly about whom he really was. Though I believe one can point to whom he was not. Lewis Carroll and Walter Sickert are just bad suspects in my book. I would think JTR was someone not in the spotlight. Other suspects are much better than painters and writers or even actors from that era. Not that it could not be someone in the spotlight but I very much doubt it. Sorry if you disagree with me but if you look at other suspects they seem more like Jack the Ripper than these two. Michael Ostrog, James Maybrick or even the faceless "Lodger" make better suspects by far. However one cannot rule out that the Ripper may not have ever been a suspect at all. He may have been some man who lived in the area and was never fingered at all. It's a sad fact but that could perhaps be the case. We may never know. |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 9:23 pm: | |
M.Mc Why is it so hard to belive Lewis Carroll or
Walter Sickert be JTR. Just because someone is in the spotlight doesnt make them incapable of evil.
Micheal Jackson, OJ Simpson, Robert Blake,
and Fatty Arbuckle are examples that big names are
capable of murder/sex crimes. Wasnt John Wilkes Booth a well known actor before he killed Lincoln?
Im not saying Carroll or Sickert is JTR but there
is enough circumtancial evidence to keep Sickert in the suspect list. It is also very Obivious that
Carroll was a child molester (I dont care if it was considered art any grown man who takes nude photos of little girls is in my opinion a pervert)
. Im just saying that even the rich and famous
can possess an evil/perverted mind.
|
M.Mc.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 2:51 pm: | |
Jerry, I didn't say that anyone was not capable of anything. As humans we all have in ourselfs to kill but not many of us act upon such thoughts.
First I have posted all the people you just did in other post around the board so you had to have read that post from me too. However you missed my point all together in this post above.
In fact to quote myself right here,"Not that it could not be someone in the spotlight but I very much doubt it."
As is I very much "doubt" it but it could be. Maybe a cat could learn to talk given enough time to do so. But I very much doubt that too. Sorry.
Look, I'm not saying that any person in the spot like can not do awful things. No I'm saying I doubt that this is the case with Sickert and more so with Carroll. At least I believe Sickert wrote some of the hoax Ripper letters if that means anything. But I'm not swayed by Cornwell's book which I own a copy of BTW. Nor am I swayed by the book about Carroll being JTR, which I also have read. If these two were the only suspects I'd pick Sicket over Carroll hands down.
Plus the "circumtancial evidence" is slightly better on Sickert that Carroll but both are weak as water. I need more than any of this stuff like poems with so called hidden messages Carroll wrote about JTR. And I need more than Sickerts paintings and hoax JTR letter writing to sway me. I believe Sickert paid off a cop or someone like that to see the photos taken of the JTR victims. Still does not make him Jack the Ripper. None of his paniting show ANY of the JTR victims as JTR himself would have left them. A couple look like the post photos we've all seen. If there was a panting of woman on a bed cut up on her bed, then I might be more swayed by Sickert's guilt. However, nothing like that is around and I'm sorry I do not like Cornwell's book. The only thing I was interested in was the GUESTBOOK she found. I'm still wondering about that really. All she did was what she did all in her book. Give her point of view about it and jump to what she believed about Sickert. She showed a couple of fuzzy photos of the GUESTBOOK and I was rather upset about that. I would have like to see her or someone post the pages of this GUESTBOOK. I hope without Cornwell's two cents tossed in.
It's too weak to say, Oh this proves either man was JTR. Not when another suspect I can name right off "Francis Tumblety" had a collection of wombs. Plus the fact there are far too many other suspects are better suspects by far than either of these Sickert or Carroll put together. So far it's not enough for me to buy it. 
Now I want to go on record as saying that I think anyone who abuses children in anyway is sick. This before you read the rest of this. Thanks
Alas Carroll was indeed a pervert, both he and Oscar Wilde turned gay and had other very odd sexual habits to say the least. However Carroll did not have sex with the little girl who is better known in his story Alice in Wonderland. In fact she was asked many times about this in her life and she said the most he ever did was hug her good-bye. Maybe Carroll was a like like Sickert, not a very good man but I doubt either was Jack the Ripper. So even though Carroll had thoughts about it he never acted upon it unlike Micheal Jackson. Now Micheal Jackson I believe is a evil person, I mean anyone who wears one white glove and sings "Beat it" has to be. Then all this stuff with all these kids, too many kids are saying he did stuff to them. I think Micheal Jackson did have sexual contact with these kids as gross as that is. Believe I think that is more gross than what Jack the Ripper did. |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 6:16 pm: | |
I am sorry I missed your point. I know there are never any strong enough evidence on Sickert and Carroll. I just was thinking there wasnt also enough evidence to to completely elimanate them
as suspects. I guess the negative things known
about them makes you think they are capable of such crimes. I do agree on Tumblety being a good suspect. I have discovered the time period in which the Ripper struck there an awful lot of eccentric,weird, and mean spirted people in the spolight. Sickert, Carroll, Prince Albert, William
Gull, James K. Stephen, ect are such people. By some of the things that went on their lives it can be easy to put them on the same page as the Ripper. I hope there are no hard feelings, I am just very interested in the Ripper case, Read up on all the theories, and keep an open mind |
M.Mc.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 1:24 pm: | |
Thank you Jerry I was afraid of this getting a bit harry between us. It's really the way I express myself most people have mistaken what my point is. Don't feel bad about it I just needed to explain myself better that's all. I'm a dyslexic so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it or not. Anyway, I'm just amused by some of the wild hair evidence on some of these suspects. I myself have not picked a stand out suspect from JTR. There are many men who fit the profile of Jack the Ripper. Tumblety is a pretty good suspect but there are others. The only suspects I rule out are the following, Carroll - Sickert - Prince Albert - Gull - Jill the Ripper or any other woman.
Now I do not rule out James K. Stephen as being JTR because there's more that points to him than Cornwell's book about Sickert ever could. My main reason is I think Stephen had a mental disorder of some kind, perhaps from that very severe blow on his head. He may or may not of become a split personality. This is not a fact or anything but that sort of thing can happen.
I think too that maybe Jack the Ripper may have had a split personality. If this were the case then it would harder to track him down. His normal self may have been unaware of his evil deeds as Jack the Ripper. Again just an idea no clue could point to a split personality really. But Stephen is not the only suspect who you say this about. The English George Hutchinson story about a man with Mary kelly seems to have too many details in some places and not enough in others. If he was JTR he may have been talking about his other personality without even knowing it. That's the problem with people who have this mental disorder of split personality. No I'm not writing a book but other people like Cornwell can jump all over the place with their suspect. I just thought since I don't have one guy as a suspect that I could come up with my own ideas too. I'm also going by other cases like Jack the Ripper as a research tool. These killers usually have 4 types of motives. Revenge, hate, sexual issues or voices in their heads ordering them to kill. I tend to think JTR who ever he was had all four motives. No doubt JTR hated hookers for some reason and many of the suspects fit that profile as well. The way he killed his victims was personal due to the over kill. Mostly in his last two victims of the main five victims. Sexual revenge by cutting up the victims private parts. This man loved cutting these hookers up and one only has to look at what he did to Mary Kelly to see that. Even people how have seen or worked with dead bodies have made remarks about the way Mary Kelly was cut up. It still stands as one of the worst cases of overkill in history.  |
Paul Jackson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 105
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 7:57 pm: | |
Hi everybody,
Jerry.. I agree with you on one point. There are indeed a lot of suspects that are less likely to be the ripper than Sickert. He is a decent suspect....I think Cornwell book turned a lot of people off regarding him though. Too much B.S. and "What if". There are much worse suspects...like Lewis Carroll. Best regards.
Paul |
Paul Jackson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 106
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 8:42 pm: | |
Hey MC,
Good post...I enjoyed reading it. I would like to disagree with a few things though. By "split personality" Im guessing you are meaning "multiple personality". In any event,
I think that JTR knew exactly what he was doing when he was pulling the guts out of these women.
And this point is by no means 100% either....
"If" The Ripper sent that kidney to Lusk (which is a good possibility) then that pretty much indicates that he knew what he was doing.
I also agree that the ripper was probably a "nobody"...just some loser pissed off at the world and taking it out on the whores. I dont think he was Schizophrenic, nor insane(at least not criminally insane), nor a doctor, or a butcher, or anything like that. I think he was just mean as hell and had issues. Best regards.
Paul
PS..why dont you go ahead and send your application in for the boards? You're a good Ripper enthusiast with good ideas and opinions. You are a girl right?
(Message edited by paulj on April 06, 2004) |
Dan Norder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 8:46 pm: | |
M.Mc wrote:
"His normal self may have been unaware of his evil deeds as Jack the Ripper."
Hate to constantly be the naysayer, but this idea has more to do with fictional descriptions of mental illness than how they actually work. Beyond just that, many professionals are beginning to doubt that there is actually any disorder where someone can have more than one personality. The vast majority of these cases in the last several decades are thought to have been misdiagnoses and examples of patients following whatever their therapist suggests. Certainly there have been quite a number of cases finding the therapists negligent for falsely convincing their clients that they had multiple personalities. |
M.Mc.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 8:42 am: | |
Well I did say "MAYBE" JTR had a multiple personality or split personality, which ever you want to call it. It is true JTR "knew exactly what he was doing" as you said. However if Jack the Ripper was some ones 2ed evil personality and of couse this is only an idea not a fact by any means. Then his 1st personality may have blocked out the events perhaps. There have been cases where totally sain people have blocked out awful events that they had. Even if this was not the case with JTR he was not sain in my book. Anyone who cut up anouther human being like JTR did. I'm sorry but JTR had mental issues of some sort. I'm just tossing out one that could explain his evil behavior. JTR may have just been a person with no remose, which in it's self is a disorder. Other killers have had the very same 'tude about their actions. No remose and some have boasted about the lifes they have taken. I think anyone who shows these type of signs should get help before they kill but sadly this is not the case.
PS: I need to stop being lazy and join up I know. |
Paul Jackson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 108
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 9:21 pm: | |
Hey MC,
Whats up? I said that I didnt think JTR was "legally insane" meaning he knew what he was doing was wrong. I absolutley agree that he was
seriously screwed up in the head. That cannot be disputed. And yes, Im sure he had little if any remorse for his crimes. Which is a symptom of antisocial disorder, which is generally the rule with most serial killers. They obviously
dont think like you or I. We can think about killing someone all day long, but we dont cross that line because of the consequences or the moral issues that go along with taking someones life for no reason whatsoever. Its hard for most of us to comprehend how they can do it and
not think a thing about it. Thats what makes us normal and them "psychos".
Paul |
Jerry Maynard
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 6:50 pm: | |
MC,
I think its possible that JTR might have had a split personality. From looking at what I have read so far JTR had two motives. One is certainly
sexually related and the other is to prove that he
is smarter than the authorities. In a way he is alot like the unibomer or the zodiac. He wanted to prove himself smarter than those who are trying to catch him. I think he wanted to play with their minds. The mason/occult style of the murders, the chalk writing with the "Juews",
the possibilty he wrote a couple of the letters ect are ways to match wits with the police.
That is why I like Tumblty and Robert Donston
Stephenson as suspects. They seem the type to want to prove how smart or clever they are.
By the way I also need to explain myself better I am very ADD so I can understand how hard it can be
sometimes
|
M.Mc.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 2:58 pm: | |
Alright I think we kind of agree in a round about way here. I look at it as if I killed some one myself for any reason I would feel guity for it. Even if it came down to my life or theirs. In Jack the Ripper's case he enjoyed killing with no remorse or sorrow at all. Have a happy Easter BTW.  |
Busy Beaver
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 1:34 pm: | |
Jack did enjoy killing these woman and did not feel even the sligtest pain of guilt. This is evident other wise he would have given himself up and we would know who he was- Particularly when the whole world was after him. Jack liked the thrill of the chase, there was nothing more gratifying than to kill a Woman and butcher her to beyond recognition and then run and watch whilst the police tried to catch him and failed miserably. After MJK, if there was not such a public outcry regarding the horror of her death, Jack would have no doubt killed again, but now he too was frightened. With Montague Duritt having committed suicide and George Hutchison giving his "more than helpful" evidence, Jack had all he needed to take a break and dissappear as quickly as he had appeared.
Jack was clever and cunning. He probably read every newspaper in London covering the murders, so he could plan where he would kill next, but not necesarily who. He knew the police were fighting amongst one another regarding the various details left at the crime scenes, he also knew that damning evidence against him was destroyed as the police had no way of coping with the murders. Let's say that Jack was always one step ahead and was damn good at it too. |
John Carey
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 4:54 am: | |
"Jack the Ripper" is named in the Holloway Lunatic Asylum records as a re-admitted inmate in October 1891. Please see my article in Ripperana #45 for July 2003. I first wrote about him 1997 so he is not really a "new" suspect. |
John Carey
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 8:20 am: | |
"Jack the Ripper" is named in the Holloway Lunatic Asylum (re-admission) records for October 1891. Please see my article in Ripperana #45. I first wrote about him in 1997 so stricly speaking he is not a "new" suspect. |
Paul Jackson
Inspector
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 151
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 10:31 pm: | |
John,
Can you provide us a link for that? I dont have a copy handy. Thanks.
Paul |
John Carey
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 4:51 am: | |
Paul
Ripperana pages cannot be viewed on the internet. Back issues can be bought from the publisher, Nick Warrren, details are at
http://mysite.freeserve.com./ripperana
If you live in London, you could purchase a copy from Murder One bookshop in Charing Cross Road.
Alternatively, if you would like to email me at
john.carey@defra.gsi.gov.uk
with your address I will post the info to you.
John
|
okay
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 9:25 pm: | |
So who was jack the ripper, i was told that a retired officer from Scotland yard, traveled and found similar murders like that of jack the ripper in other countries and that he found who jack the ripper was and sent it to scotland yard, but i dunno who was jack the ripper? |
