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  | Archive through March 20, 2004 | Glenn L Andersson | 25 | 1 | 3-20-04 2:22 pm |
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Natalie Severn
Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 493
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 4:43 pm: |       |
Well amateur or not it may be necessary to try!
I often think that speech by Hamlet"to be or not to be " is such a brilliant piece of psychology
-sort of sums up the daily dilemmas so well---you dont NEED to be a psychologist really---who appointed them to determine all these things?Shakespeare seemed to have seen these things at a glance don"t you think?
Mind who has ever seen through it all quite like him?
Cheers Glenn,
Natalie |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1320
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 7:48 pm: | |
Hi Natalie,
I just want to add, that I am not at all sure that Jack the Ripper was a paranoid schizofrenic, but if he was I think it is questionable that he would want to communicate or deliver symbolic messages for the police or the general public to crack. Those are mostly loners and asocial people -- I think the profilers actually have right to some extent regarding that.
That being said, I believe we can find exceptions to anything. Introvert people in general can of course find some pleasure or need to communicate -- like the Unabomber etc. -- but they are seldom paranoid schizofrenics.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 900
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 1:36 pm: | |
Hi All,
A literate, non-Jewish Jack (assuming such is a possibility) would presumably want to be one step ahead of the police. So for his next trick after Annie, he might well have seen the advantages of trying to find a victim whose location and circumstancs would at least help to support the latest suspicions that the murderer was Jewish. The whole incident with Stride, as (allegedly) witnessed by Schwartz and pipe man, could have been set up by Jack himself, intending the 'scuffle' to be witnessed and trying (but not necessarily succeeding of course) to give witnesses the impression that Stride's assailant was Jewish. If the witnesses had hung around or tried to intervene, Jack had done nothing - yet - to cook his goose. As it was, they both left the scene, giving him the opportunity to finish Stride off quickly, and sensibly put off ripping until he had found another victim in safer circumstances.
Eddowes gave Jack even more obvious scope for implying he was Jewish.
Love,
Caz
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Natalie Severn
Chief Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 513
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 2:35 pm: | |
I doubt the ripper would have had this sub-script
Caz.If he was a local "literate" racist attempting to act out his demons AND pin the blame on the vulnerable immigrant group that comprised the local Jewish community he would have been trying to attend to two prejudices at once.I think he would then have fallen between two stools:
JtR seems to me to have evaded capture precisely because he was so single minded about his primary urge which appears to have been the death and disembowelling of local middle aged alcohol dependent prostitutes.
This took primacy over everything it would appear to me.
If he was a local racist, this would be his secondary agenda.As I have said before I doubt he would have confined himself to the slaying of non Jewish women [for soliciting outside Jewish clubs?].Some solicited elsewhere in Whitechapel.
I doubt too that his language in the graffiti would have been so devoid of "terms of racist abuse".And I very much doubt he would have been
a solitary perpetrator.He could have found large sections of the local population to rabble rouse in.
But who knows he may just have been so twisted that any old prejudice would do as an excuse to stir up hate.
Best Natalie |
Bullwinkle
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 10:24 pm: | |
1. First of all, don't bother yourselves looking for ritualistic elements in the Whitechapel murders. I know this is a very old thought, venerated through many dusty decades, but it just doesn't bear out in the evidence. There is a at bottom NO reason to believe that Jack the Ripper was doing anything ritualistic at his crime scenes--not in posing the bodies, nor in carving symbols on the face, nor in positioning various body parts and personal items in juxtaposition, or in any other way. I have learned how to smell many a rat in Ripperology, and one of the classic poses of the chandala is ritualism. The chandala interests you in ritualism, then he hands you his interpretation of Jack the Ripper's rituals. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN JACK THE RIPPER PRACTISED RITUALS!!! See how the illicit term is slipped in on you? If Jack were doing rituals, there would be much more solid evidence of it.
2. Posters above do touch on a good idea when they speak of tying all the pieces together. That is how you solve the case, essentially. Once you understand the murderer, you can see that he is after the same kind of thing in all he does. The GSG, the Lusk Letter and Half-Kidney, "Juwes," the triangular marks on Eddowes' face--THESE ARE ALL THE SAME BASIC THING. It's just one guy doing his thing. The trouble is, nobody has ever been able to say what his thing was.
Bullwinkle
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Natalie Severn
Chief Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 528
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 5:05 pm: | |
1]I think I follow you though I dont quite understand the meaning of "chandala".
When I think of him communicating I think of the way he left the bodies-the strange positioning
of the bodies and their entrails
the cuts themselves with the "v"s on Catharines cheeks
and so on .
But myself I haven"t thought of these as "ritual"
in the way people have interpreted me.So maybe "ritual" was an imprecise word for what I was meaning.
I think then that there seem to be cryptic messages in all of this which maybe what you are saying?And yes you are right I think these are all consistent with his central meaning-they all hang together and lead us to his "raison d"etre.
I myself hadnt included the lusk letter or the kidney but it might be an idea.Yes I think I"ll have a go at including them and see if he "speaks"
[ofcourse whether I then understand him is another matter!
Thanks Bullwinkle!
Natalie |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1355
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 5:27 pm: | |
For once Bullwinkle makes sense with his messages. A good post, David -- I agree with much of it.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 911
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 5:11 am: | |
Hi David,
I think of Jack as a childish wannabe Clubman - we all know the type. He longs to be 'accepted' and to join in all the backslapping camaraderie of the gentlemen's clubs, but he is always made to feel that his face doesn't really fit. He is humoured, ignored or rejected, and just hasn't got enough of the right stuff to stand out in an average crowd, or to impress the in-crowd. He is also far too resentful and emotionally immature to live with this situation and make the best of it. But there would have been a trigger factor that set him off on his course of destruction and inevitable self-destruction.
Blackballed by the Masons, perhaps? (Sounds painful!  ) Something of that sort might do it. Rejection would make him so bitter that his motto would become: If I can't join 'em, I'm going to beat 'em.
What we do know is the form this creep's beating took, and that only the most vulnerable and desperate played into his hands and got beaten by him. If MJK finally rejected him too, after he'd succeeded in gaining access to her humble little abode, it's little wonder that he wanted to take all the crayons out of his box and scribble all over the scene of rejection, defacing and trying to obliterate everyone and everything that acted as a reminder of his own inferiority.
The guy couldn't hack it, so he hacked women instead.
Love,
Caz
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Natalie Severn
Chief Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 536
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:51 pm: | |
An interesting post Caz and again you make a lot of sense.I am still unsure about the taking of organs and the possibility of getting off sexually in the killings.
I think hecould have been just sad and mad but he could also have been a bit more knowing and of this world too.
Best Nats |
Natalie Severn
Chief Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 555
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 5:55 pm: | |
Bullwinkle,I have had a look at the Lusk letter again and am unconvinced that he sent it.It doesnt appear to match the spirit of the Graffiti.
I am still of the opinion that there is a lot of symbolic meaning in everything he did in his killings.Underneath it all is a coldhearted puritan following his star!
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