|
 |
 |
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
    
R.J. Palmer
Inspector
Username: Rjpalmer
Post Number: 332
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 11:52 am: |       |
I consider Wynne Baxter, Tom Bulling, Sir Robert Anderson, Forbes Winslow, Sickert, D'Onston, the ghost of Israel Lipski, Krafft-Ebing, Macnaghten, Albert Bachert, the unknown correspondent from Vienna, the Star, Donald McCormick, Stead & the Pall Mall Gazette, the Goulston Street graffiti artist, Michael Kidney, and the entire staff of the Daily Telegraph as the main supsects. |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 558
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 10:59 am: | |
Hello All
I can only state that killer was an escaped zoo animal of the lowest class whose confederates refused to give him up to human justice. In saying this I am only stating a definitely ascertained fact and for me to reveal more would cause the traditions of my old department to suffer. Unsolved murders are rare in London and the JTR series was not one that falls into that category. I am almost tempted to reveal the identity of this creature, but no public benefit would result from this action and nothing positive would come of this revelation.
All The Best
Gary |
Belinda Pearce
Sergeant
Username: Belinda
Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 12:39 pm: | |
1 David Cohen
2 David Cohen
3 Someone very much like that |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2196
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 2:04 pm: | |
Gary, in fact the gorilla was positively identified by another gorilla who refused to swear to him out of simian loyalty.
Belinda, that third suspect...could it be David Cohen?
Robert |
Monty
Chief Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 841
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 8:01 am: | |
Guys,
Mine are:-
1) An individual I cannot name. They're description matches witness descriptions. There is a possible trigger. The trigger is linked with mutilation. The murder locations are linked. Possible link to a victim.
You'll have to wait for 2 and 3.
Monty
 |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1241
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 8:45 am: | |
Guys,
Hehe, it seems like Belinda has made her mind up...
I wish it was that easy, really -- at least as far as I am concerned. The problem is that none of the suspects really are that 100% convincing (in my view), which is exactly what to expect in an over 100 year old murder case, with fragmentaric facts and most of the suspect files missing.
Besides the completely ridiculous ones, there are details pointing in favour and against many of the suspects, but it could just as well be someone we are completely unaware of.
I think the Lodger is extremely interesting, but we have two main questions to answer: how well verified is the story, and if the Lodger really existed, who was he? Some might claim that he was Tumblety, but it isn't really proven beyond doubt. But it is an intriguing story which I consider to be something more than the ordinary fairy-tales surrounding the case in general.
Druitt is an interesting suspect, but there are a lot of factual question marks to consider, and I don't think neither his connection to East End or his link to the case is convincing beyond circumstancial.
As far as Kosminski and the Polish Jew trail goes, I wonder how much we really can depend on Macnaghten. He seem to have gotten his facts confused in many ways; there is no evidence showing that Ostrog was a homicidal maniac and neither on that Kosminski was dangerous to anybody else but maybe himself. I really don't know what to think about Anderson's views here or Swanson's. At least Swanson I consider to be a good police man (Anderson was merely a politician) and his marginalia puzzles me. The David Cohen theory is interestsing, but a bit of a stretch if you ask me.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Belinda Anastasia Peacre
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 12:01 pm: | |
David Cohen
David Cohen
David Cohen
or someone very much like that |
Dan Norder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 5:13 am: | |
I lean toward some completely unidentified psychopath, but if I had to pick people, they'd probably be Hutchinson (at a crime scene, suspicious), Blotchy-Faced Man (mixing sunburnt-faced man from Ada Wilson into the mix as a possibility), and maybe LaBruckman or James Kelly or someone like that. None of them have a lot of solid evidence behind pointing the finger their way, but they seem more likely to me anyway than a lot of unlikely other suspects. |
Tiddley boyar
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 5:09 pm: | |
Interesting how "The Lodger" features in a few entries, and a reference to G. Wentworth Bell Smith (worth consideration David!).
My top 3: 1) James Maybrick
2) The Lodger
3) G. Wentworth Bell Smith
So I suppose my choice comes down to one then - James Maybrick! aka 2) and 3).
Regards, Tiddley
|
CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 6:37 pm: | |
Hi all,
The sesitivity level is high on the boards and I wish to point out that an attack on a particuliar suspect is not an attack on a particuliar person. so Paul her are my least favorrite suspects.
It would be easy to point out the suspects such as, Jill the ripper, Lewis Carrol and Gull. Here are a few of the more popular suspects that I dont agree with.
Joe Barnet, There is know proof other then the fact that he is Mary Jane Kelly's ex boyfriend to believe he is the ripper. Why not Liz Srride's boyfriend?
George Hutchinson, There is no proof other then the fact he gave a description of the man he saw with Kelly the night she was murderd. Why not accuse IS He claimed to see the man fighting wih Liz Srtride.
James Maybrick, Other then the Maybrick diary is there any other reason to suspect him? I dont think so.
ALL THE BEST, CB |
Caroline Anne Morris
Chief Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 830
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 8:16 am: | |
Hi CB,
If the neat H 9 3 engraved in the 'secret' surface of the 'Maybrick' watch is an old repair mark, someone apparently had James down as the ripper a lot longer ago than has been assumed.
It seems the H 9 3 was engraved after the crudely scratched 'I am Jack', making it the current focus of attention on the diary boards. It will need to be explained away somehow.
Love,
Caz
|
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1040
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 6:13 pm: | |
Hi all
An interesting games - the top three suspects - hmmmm - so many to choose from:-)
Seriously, if I had to say three favourites at this stage, I would probably opt for:
1) A local unknown whose name has not yet been put in the frame
2) George Fisher
3) Of the named suspects, Kosminki is the only one who really grabs my attention as viable
All the best
Chris
|
Michael Raney
Inspector
Username: Mikey559
Post Number: 166
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 6:29 pm: | |
I have a suspect...no name at the moment (because I don't know it for sure, not because I won't tell it). I believe he had a good working knowledge of Whitechapel and the area surrounding it. Late 20's. Lower middle class (or that's what we would consider it today). Matches the description given most often. No true medical knowledge. Not believed to be Jewish.
Mikey |
Paul Jackson
Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 29
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 8:54 pm: | |
Hi CB,
There is a worst suspect thread that Glenn started the other day. Who are you 3 Favorite suspects?
Paul |
Peter J. Tabord
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 5:52 am: | |
Having posted on the Barnett circumstantial evidence thread my reasons, I guess I should weigh in with my candidate 'lurkers' - i.e. people who might have been in the habit of prowling about for their own reasons.
A couple of years ago I'd have made entirely different suggestions. (And in another couple of years time I may have changed my opinions again!)
1) Hutchinson. Actually admitted hanging around in a highly suspicious way, possibly a pimp, possibly a petty burglar or footpad. Pretty hard to imagine he was hanging around in the rain for fun. Story doesn't hold water. Was he Pipe Man?
2) Francis Thompson. In the area. Behaving strangely (and I would have thought a far better prospect for an 'artisitic' murderer than Walter)
3) Cutbush. Interestingly nuts, wierd behaviour patterns, strong and exceptionally agile, familiar with the east end and of course the whole series of peculiarities surroundinng his trial and incarceration, the memoranda, etc.
As outsiders, two known murderers, James Kelly or W H Bury.
But I suspect a) someone not yet named and b) we'll never know.
Regards
Pete |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 564
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 9:42 am: | |
Hello All
I believe that descriptions of the killer point to a sailor who absented himself from the district by returning to his ship and leaving London. I believe he was an Englishman and a psychopath and possibly a monomaniac who lived near the heart of the killing zone. He was someone who could come and go as he pleased without attracting any undue attention. He would have been known to the police as someone who frequented the company of prostitutes and who had a criminal record which may have involved the abuse of prostitutes.
Therefore my suspect would be William Grant Grainger or some other psychopath who exhibited the traits mentioned above.
All The Best
Gary |
CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 8:32 pm: | |
Hi Paul,
I think there is only three reasons the murders stop. The ripper dies. The ripper is locked up for some reason or he moves away and his murders are not connected to WC. I dont think he could just stop. I think the ripper would of had a criminal record. prior to the murders or after the murders.
Dr.T, He was arrested on numerous times from manslaughter to abortion and the time line fits
Chapman, he lived near the first murder and he was later hung.
Kozminski, He was locked up.
I am also interested in Labruckman
I just feel something had to happen to the ripper I dont think he could have gone on killing without getting caught.
Caz, thanks for your responce.
ALL THE BEST CB |
Saburr
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 10:33 am: | |
I have only had a few days to look over the information given about JTR, but I have yet to see any evidence about a local undertaker. I do not feel that JTR was a notable lunatic. It should be noted that most serial killers have been claimed to have every appearance of being normal. An undertaker would have vast medical knowledge of the removal of internal organs. More importantly he would know how to postion a body in such a way to drain the blood away from his postion to avoid the blood on his clothing. Does anyone feel that this theory could hold water? |
Paul Jackson
Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 34
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 10:16 pm: | |
A local undertaker? Hey, thats not a bad lead to check out. I agree With Saburr about JTR not being "known" as a nutcase. Most people that are sadistic serial killers have a wife, kids,
a job, and are very "Normal" on the surface.
Thats the problem with suspects like Kosminsky and others that were known to be blooming idiots and eating out of the gutter and not bathing and all that. JTR was a very normal; guy. We do need to follow up on that lead about the undertaker though. Does anyone know who the morgue guys were?
Paul |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1264
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 9:01 am: | |
Well, I don't necessarily agree.
Some that are considered lunatics can act quite normal on the outside; to say that, for example, a paranoid schizofrenic can't be a serial killer due to his "appearance" is a common fallacy. Regarding Kosminski, we have no idea about the condition of his mental illness in 1888. We can't automatically take for granted that he "ate bread from the gutter" at the time of the murders.
There are a number of cases where a person diagnosed with paranoid schizofrenia have committed rather cunning and complicated murders, even serial ones and who only got caught be pure coincidence. One such example is Hadden Clark in the case of Laura Houghtelling, who was a paranoid schizofrenic, but did some very serious planning, used make-up in order to disappear unnoted etc. We have had cases here in Sweden as well, involving paranoid schizofrenics.
I am not saying the Ripper was a lunatic, just that the presumptions for discounting a lunatic are wrong and ill based. A paranoid lunatic doesen't have to be a dirty idiot, with a strange appearance. It is possible that his real personality traits only were noticeable by those who knew him.
I for my part, think that the crimes he committed, does suggest a person with some sort of insanity, although I am not at all sure or fully convinced about it.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on March 12, 2004)
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Paul Jackson
Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 36
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 10:45 am: | |
Glenn,
You must have watched forensic files last night,
that very case was on. The Haddon Clark killing of that little girl, and Laura. Cool. I see your point, but I still am not to convinced by Kosminsky. Well, Im off to work. Goodday!
Paul |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1266
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 10:59 am: | |
Hi Paul
Yes, as a matter of fact I did, but I learnt about the case for the first time several years ago (and that FBI Files episode was an old rerun anyway). Since then I have come across several others involving paranoid schizofrenics, some on my own home turf, some international.
I am not at all convinced about Kosminski either (rather the opposite), but as I said, we don't know how bad his medical condition was in 1888.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1267
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 11:05 am: | |
This thread is really a tough one, since there really is no one I find that 100% convincing. And my bet is that it was someone not known to us -- a complete nobody.
But if I may choose between some of the known ones (and revise my earlier ones a bit), the list would for the time being (it could just as well change tomorrow):
1) The Lodger
2) Unknown lunatic, maybe a Polish Jew, maybe not
3) James Kelly or W.H. Bury (can't decide which one)
But it really is a tough call.
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 869
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 11:10 am: | |
CB,
You say there is no proof (you may mean evidence) for Barnett or Hutchinson but then what evidence is there for anyone else? At least Barnett had a motive and that's more than many other suspects. I'm not saying I think he was Jack 100% but he is a favourite of mine. Just because some people don't understand why the motive we say he had would cause him to kill those other prostitutes, it doesn't prove he didn't just as much as it doesn't prove he did.
Sarah |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1269
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 11:18 am: | |
Sarah,
Barnett's (sorry to drag him in here, I won't do it again) motives for killing Mary Kelly may be valid to consider, although they would be rather thin nevertheless. But there really would be no motive for him to be Jack the Ripper, unless you want to construct one out of pure imagination.
It is true, none of us have proof of anything as far as the suspects are concerned, but there nevertheless must be some logical reasons to suspect someone -- in this case Barnett -- of being Jack the Ripper. I can only draw such logical conclusions (to some extent and with a stretch of the imagination) regarding the Kelly murder, but the others... sorry, there goes the limit.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
|
Use of these
message boards implies agreement and consent to our Terms of Use.
The views expressed here in no way reflect the views of the owners and
operators of Casebook: Jack the Ripper.
Our old message board content (45,000+ messages) is no longer available online, but a complete archive
is available on the Casebook At Home Edition, for 19.99 (US) plus shipping.
The "At Home" Edition works just like the real web site, but with absolutely no advertisements.
You can browse it anywhere - in the car, on the plane, on your front porch - without ever needing to hook up to
an internet connection. Click here to buy the Casebook At Home Edition.
|
|
|
|
