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Paul Jackson
Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 22
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 8:30 pm: |       |
Hi Everyone,
This thread may have already been addressed somewhere in the archives, but, Im just curious.
Who are your Top 3 suspects...and why?
Paul |
Peter Sipka
Sergeant
Username: Peter
Post Number: 23
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 11:31 pm: | |
Hey Paul,
1)Mr. Severin Antoniovich Klosowski
(Glenn might like this!)
2)The Lodger
3)Mr. George Hutchinson
*No order and am thinking about Barnett
Peter
(Message edited by Peter on March 04, 2004) |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 741
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 3:07 am: | |
Hi,
a]Joseph Barnett number one suspect.
b] Walter sickert
c]M Druitt
Reasons.
Barnett lived with the last victim, objected to her wayward life with passion,and the grave spitting incident, which i cannot overlook.
W. Sickert, may have sent correspondence to the police, acted strangely with reference to these murders, and his painting ' A passing Funeral'depicting two women gazing through a window, apparently observing a funeral' very similar to events that may have occured at 'St patricks cemetary'.
M Druitt. found dead not long after kellys murder, fits a uncanny resemblence to the man seen by White, and also similar to the man seen in the court by Bower talking to Kelly on the wednesday, also 'Since Friday I felt I was like mother' was this friday 9th?.
Richard. |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1231
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 3:59 am: | |
Hi,
(Hello Peter, hehe...  No, I'll keep quiet...)
I really don't have a favourite suspect at all, and they seem to change with time anyway, but here is some that I find particularly interesting (in correct order)
1) The Lodger
2) M Druitt (although the case against him is circumstancial)
3) Kosminski/Polish Jew theory (although it doesen't work all the way through and has some problematic and unclear elements)
I am also think about LaBruckman (but we know too little about him) somewhere below these three and I may also have to keep an open mind about Barnett in connection Mary Jane Kelly's murder (although I don't really believe it).
Anyhow, I think it is easier to state which suspects are the NON-favorite and least likely ones (see my profile page)!
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Natalie Severn
Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 384
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 4:09 am: | |
Hi Richard,
1]Druitt
I think one section anyway of the police [city maybe]knew something about him and this is possibly why they scaled down the police after he was "found drowned"and this is why they took
Hutchinson"s statement so seriously.
However Abberline obviously doubted he was and later said so leading me on to the Kosminski/David Cohen mystery[which again Abberline disputes because he said there was no hard evidence]
But I think both were watched by the police and no murders of the "pattern" happened after they were watched and detained and again-why did the police scale down and not intensify their hunt after the last murder?
Cutbush strange to have changed his MO but something stinks over his incarceration if you read the different sentences given to Cutbush an Collicut[cant spellit now].Why let one off and put the other in Broadmoor for the rest of his days for much the same offence?
I dont dismiss Joe Barnett though.
He had a reason to build up anger and rage towards Mary Kelly attack her by frenzy
and then try and blame it on the ripper.The thing I find hard is him doing the other murders.
As for him carrying out such a sickening attack on Mary well murderers seem to panic and do all sorts to avoid detection and dismembering[body in the trunk type] murders seem quite common in domestic murders.
Best Natalie |
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 490
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 5:50 am: | |
Hi Paul, here's mine
1. James Kelly - known paranoid schizophrenic, murdered his wife by stabbing her in the neck after accusing her of being a prostitute and giving him an STD, was disavowed of this in Broadmoor and would thus have almost certainly realised that he caught it from the Whitechapel prostitutes he was in the habit of frequenting - thus motive. Escaped from Broadmoor in Jan 1888 and left England for France in Nov/Dec 1888 thus opportunity. Was observed to experience wild mood swings between gentle and placid and wild violent rages, thus means.
2. George Hutchinson, simply because his behaviour is so bizarre and does not add up.
3. Kosminski/Polish Jew/So far unidentified person. |
Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 833
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 6:08 am: | |
1. Barnett - lived with last victim, hated her profession, was desperate for her to stop.
2. Druitt - found drowned after the last murder, felt he was going mad, appearance in the Magnaugtan Memoranda, fits some descriptions.
3. Someone else entirely.
Sarah |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1232
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 6:11 am: | |
Hi Alan,
I agree; James Kelly is interesting as well. Unfortunately, I don't think John Morrison's story about Mary Jane Kelly having aborted a child he was the father to, and he then killing all the prostitute women in her circuits of friends, holds up -- and his claims have never been proven to have any factual basis. Sounds too much Stephen Knight for me.
But looking at James Kelly's personality traits, he seems interesting. I just wish we knew more about him.
Regarding my third and last option (Kosminski/Polish Jew), I naturally should have added "So far unidentified person" as well. My strongest belief is that the Ripper may not have been identical with any of the known suspects at all -- at least there is a good chance for it.
As far as occupation is concerned, I would say that a butcher or a barber would be appropriate (but that is just my personal opinion).
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 492
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 6:31 am: | |
Glenn
I personally think Morrison's story is ridiculous. James Tully's book about Kelly is a great read but I think he goes too far as well with his various conspiracy/cover up theories. But neither of these things change the basic facts of the Kelly case, I think it stands on it's own without these embellishments. |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1234
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 6:35 am: | |
Alan,
I agree, especially considering his unrecorded whereabouts during the Ripper murders and his escape from an asylum before the murders started.
Do you have any tip on where one can read up on him, besides the A to Z and Tully?
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on March 05, 2004)
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 493
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 6:41 am: | |
Tully would be the best source. The book is "The Secret of Prisoner 1167: Was This Man Jack the Ripper?" Tully was able to view the police and Home Office files on Kelly and his Broadmoor file, none of which are currently in the public domain. |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1235
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 6:50 am: | |
OK. Thank you, Alan. One has to over-look the conspiracy elements, then. Authors that has had the ability to study original documents are naturally worth reading, regardless of which crazy ideas they put forward.
I wonder if James Kelly was skilled with a knife, though. Because I think the Ripper at least had some anatomical knowledge possessed by a butcher or something like that (not necessarily a doctor). I can't find any info about his (former) occupation. The problem, as I see it, is that he stabbed his wife in the neck -- we have no evidence of him having some experience in mutilations.
Well, anyway I'll look into Tully's book when I get the chance.
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
David Knott
Sergeant
Username: Dknott
Post Number: 28
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 6:50 am: | |
Hi all, here are mine: -
1. One or two occultists who had become involved in Jacobite politics and took things too far. D'Onston either involved, or aware of what was happening. Reason - Far too many little bits of circumstantial evidence to be coincidence IMHO (too many to mention here)
2. George Hutchinson. Reason - Very suspicious behaviour and statement. Situation of Victoria Home vis-a-vis Eddowe's murder and Goulston St.
3. G Wentworth Bellsmith. Reason - Very suspicious behaviour. Location of clue left by junction of WENTWORTH street and BELL lane!!
David |
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 494
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 7:01 am: | |
Glenn
Kelly's profession was an upholsterer. Tully points out in his book that one of the main tools of that trade is an item called a "Ripping Chisel" and suggests that this may have been where the name Jack the Ripper came from (this assuming that the killer himself coined it of course). |
Chris Michetti
Sergeant
Username: Pl4tinum
Post Number: 42
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 3:10 pm: | |
My 3 favorite are:
Tumblety, since he collected uteri and performed abortions. Maybe a couple of our victims were his test patients. Although, lately, I'm thinking less that he was the killer and more that he had someone kill and fetch him the organs he wanted for a price.
Hutchinson, since he was hanging about the night of MJK's murder for hours; and because he would supposedly take trips to Romford (?) and come back through town late at night near where some of the murders occurred.
La Bruckman, because he matches alot of the witness descriptions, and also because even after he went to New York, another ripper-like murder occurred (Brown). As well, some of his company boats docked in Whitechapel on the dates of the murders, and he was arrested on suspicion of being JTR in both Whitechapel AND New York. There are alot of coincidences here - unfortunately there are too many unknowns at this time.
Chris 
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2191
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 5:13 pm: | |
Cutbush, Polish Jew, Hutchinson.
Robert |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1237
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 6:50 pm: | |
For anyone who cares, and to turn it the other way around;
here are my personal list of the Top Five worst Ripper suspects in my view -- that is the least credible among the most well-known ones (which is why I haven't included such ridiculous whims like Jill the Ripper and Lewis Carroll...). Regarding the order, the first one is the absolute worst (although I think number one and two here very well could share the same spot on the list) and then it's a gliding scale.
1) The Royal Conspiracy & Dr. Gull
2) Prince Albert Victor
(both for obvious reasons)
3) Michael Ostrog
(he was an obvious con man and we have no evidence whatsoever saying that he really was a homicidal maniac, apart from Macnaughten's notes).
4) Severin Klosowski/George Chapman (sorry, Peter -- I can't help it)
(a wife poisoner and a complete psychopath with a personality from hell, but hardly a Ripper -- his crimes are completely different psychologically compared to the Ripper's -- even considering that a murder can change his modus operandi. Too bad, really, because I actually find him fascinating.)
5) James Maybrick
(an adulterer and wife abuser from Liverpool, without anything significant linking him to the Ripper crimes -- apart from the so called diary, which in my personal opinion is a hoax).
Note that this list may change with time -- nothing is self-written and static in Ripper Land...
Anyone else got any suggestions?
All the best
Glenn Gustaf Lauritz Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Peter Sipka
Sergeant
Username: Peter
Post Number: 25
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 8:01 pm: | |
Hey Glenn,
Anything on Chapman will spark a huge debate between us.
Well, I hope Ronald James Russo Jr. doesn't mind me quoting him, but I found his quote that he made himself interesting.
Serial killers kill for thier own reasons, not for reasons we can comprehend.
Take care Glenn
Peter
P.S.-I e-mailed you. |
steven tavani
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 6:28 pm: | |
1. Klosowski
2. Kosminski/Polish Jew
3. OJ Simpson |
D.Neal
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 5:12 pm: | |
My top three:
1.Thomas Hayne Cutbush - He was of unsound mind. He had the local knowledge. He was a violent individual. He is a suspect who was actually arrested for an attack on women with a knife. He aroused enough suspician to have numerous articles written about him. In my opinion when looking at the basic character traits and history of T H Cutbush compared to Macnaghtens three, Thomas seems more likely to have committed the crimes.
2. Francis Tumblety - He was suspected at the time both in England and the USA. He hated women. He had killed before.
3. Oswald Puckridge - Oswald was admitted to Hoxton House Lunatic Asylum on 6th January 1888 and was released on 4th August 1888, he was discharged as 'relieved' but not cured. Puckridge was mentally ill and had threatend to 'rip people up with a long knife'. In September 1888 he was being looked for but could not be found.
Oswalds whereabouts during the 'Rippers reign of Terror' have never really been ascertained.
D.Neal |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 301
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 10:05 pm: | |
None of the suspects with names really enthrall me as being the actual Ripper. This is because, so far, conclusive evidence is missing for any of them. This does not mean that Jack can't absolutely be one of them, but it suggests far more work will be needed before we approach the actual killer.
I tend to feel a local man (possibly a Jewish man, but a non-Jew is just as likely) from the East End is the best choice for being the Ripper.
That would be because only a local man would know the terrain well enough to get away so frequently.
Of the named suspects, I find Druitt the saddest because of the mystery of his death - if it was suicide it seems particularly tragic (if he did commit suicide it was due to the realization he was losing his mind). The known-murderer group
(Deeming, Cream, Chapman, Bury, Mrs. Pearcey (?)) would be interesting just by their own known sins - none strike me as being the Ripper, though I recently wrote of Fred Deeming in THE RIPPEROLOGIST. The Duke of Clarence strikes me as
being too stupid to have successfully carried out any of these killings, and his sexual history (bi-sexual, actually) is not totally known even now.
Dr. Gull was slightly dotty after his stroke - but it also would have affected his agility (if his age and stoutness didn't). Furthermore Gull was not the only doctor in London who could have been mad or sick - there is an odd concentration on this man. Among his contemporaries Sir James Paget (died 1887) was noted for his interest in crime - he was the one who suggested that Adelaide Bartlett tell everyone how she poisoned her husband silently with liquid chloroform "for the interest of science". Sir William Broadbent took care of the Duke of Clarence in his last illness in 1892, and was being sent blackmail threats by Dr. Neill Cream while this was happening. Broadbent (as a result) is one of the few figures in this story who links two of our suspects.
Tumblety and D'Onston are very interesting people in their own ways - and I hope their biographers keep finding more about both. While I have questions about the Sickert and Maybrick candidatures, I feel any information on either man is welcome (particularly as they may shed light on Sickert the painter, and Maybrick the possible poisoning victim).
I have absolutely no understanding about why Lewis Carroll got chosen. His fellow master of nonsense, Edward Lear, died in 1888 - otherwise we would be considering if "they dined on mince and slices of quince, which they ate with a runcible spoon. And hand in hand by the edge of the sand, they danced by the light of the moon, the moon, the moom, they danced by the light of the moon." actually has some sinister connotation.
Why, after all, did the pobble have no nose?
As a character in Gilbert and Sullivan's PRINCESS
IDA would have said (referring to the pobble's nose), "The subject's deep."
Jeff |
Paul Jackson
Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 24
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 11:11 pm: | |
I guess I need to throw in my 3, since I started this thread. Ok, Here we go:
These are not in a particular order....
The lodger- Even though there a few different lodger stories out there, they all seem to say the same thing. The stories Ive read seem to be genuine, as far as the storyteller "believing"
that the person known as the "lodger" was Jack the Ripper. Whether He was or not, is not known.
Thomas Cutbush- I like his last name.
Tie: Sickert/LaBruckman...even though I cant really see a Muslim from Morocco(if he was Muslim) being the ripper. However, there seems to be evidence that cant be ignored. Sickert...He fit the description, could have hated women because he had some sort of problem "down there". Ok...Ya'll dont rip me up too bad.
Paul |
Paul Jackson
Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 25
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 11:13 pm: | |
Hey Glenn,
Why dont you start the "Favorite worst suspects"
thread..That may get us some laughs.
Paul |
Peter Sipka
Sergeant
Username: Peter
Post Number: 27
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 11:25 pm: | |
Hey Paul,
Regarding the Lodger, I think he is the best suspect out there. If he had a name and face, then I would think he'd be the top suspect among Ripperologists.
Peter |
CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 1:03 am: | |
HI PAUL,
In my oppinion there is only three ways the murders stop. The ripper dies. He is locked up for some reason. He goes abroad and his new killings our never connected to WC. I dont believe the ripper could just stop killing nor do I believe he good kill for a long period of time an not get caught. I will use Sickert for an example. He was 28 at the time of the WC. murders that would give at least 30 more years of killing without getting caught. I just dont think that would be possible or he would of had to kept his urges in check again I dont think that is possible. I dont think you just wake up a serial killer I think there would be sighns that there was something wrong earliar. I think the ripper would of had a criminal past prior to the WC. Murders. I dont believe the ripper would of had a girlfriend. I think the ripper hatted women. I see the ripper as being a loner and antisocial. For thease reasons I have chosen three suspects.
Tumblety, He had a history of deviant behavior and he was arrested numerous times. Everything from manslaughter to abortion. He left England at the right time for the murders to stop and he hated women
LaBruckman, I dont know a great deal about him but his antisocial behavior aboard ship and his cruelty to animals along with his connection to the Brown murder makes him Interesting.
Kosminski/Cohen, His antisocial behavior and he was locked up in a insane haouse. He along with Tumblety and possibly LaBruckman were suspected by the police at the time.
Take care,CB |
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