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Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 742
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 3:37 pm: |       |
Hi,
The whole case of 'Jack the Ripper' is a complete mystery, all of us would agree on that.
But I would ask you all to consider one last time the following.
The pattern of events.
Not everyone agrees that Martha Tabram, was a victim, but as she was killed in a frenzy, and she was a prostitute. I would consider her to have been.
She was stabbed a total of 39 times[ medical fact]
Mary Nichols was killed on the 31st of the 8th month, the two numbers equal thirty nine.
Annie Chapman was killed on the 8th september, the last murders number + the 8th =39.
The next date should have been the 31st of sept, but september is a 30 day month, so the 30th of the 9th month=39.
Kelly was killed on the 9th of november, the last victims, were killed on the 30th of the month =39.
The above dates are fact, and the fact is they all equal the number 39, no fiddling of dates, just pure facts.
It would appear therefore that the whitechapel murderer could have worked by design, it has been suggested that he may have practised black magic,as the numbers 3/13 have significance. 3x13=39. also a religious maniac , who saw the 39th psalm significant, or mayby the number 39 had a major significance in his past.
I Cannot answer that at this time, but the number is there staring us straight in the face.
That is why, i am writing this book with Leanne, for I believe, that Barnett has serious connections to that number.
He and kelly decided to move in together on the 9th of a month, he left her on the 30th of a month,he left her on the 30th , she was killed on the 9th, she was found in the room they both shared for a long period of time, which happens to be room 13, 26 dorset street =39.
For those of you , that consider this pure coincedence, consider on thing, if just one day was out , the pattern would not exist, but all of these dates are recorded facts, not inventory, and I personally belief highly significant.
Regards Richard.
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Peter Sipka
Sergeant
Username: Peter
Post Number: 26
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 11:21 pm: | |
Hey Richard,
I just don't understand why you bring this up.
Why does everything connect to Barnett? Perhaps we should get some real evidence from him first, which I have yet to hear and forget about the numbers.
I highly doubt Jack the Ripper or Barnett took the time to write down the dates he would kill, where and how.
There are so many variables involved here and I can give you a NUMBER of coincidences in every possible situation like the myths connecting Lincoln to Kennedy or an occult symbol on the map of all the victims of JTR.
They are just coincidences-end of story
Have you read the Mammoth Book of Jack the Ripper? Did you read about the “coming apocalypse”?
Peter |
Paul Jackson
Sergeant
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 12:13 am: | |
Hi Guys,
Richard, certainly no offense intended, but I think that theory is a little far fetched. Yes,
the months and dates do add up, but I think it was more of a "when Saucy Jacky got the urge" thing than some pre-meditated black magic ritual.
But, thats why we have these open forums....to agree and disagree. Best Regards.
Paul |
AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 918
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 3:52 am: | |
These retrospective theories/incidents/arithmetic circumstances are all well and good, but as previous posters have suggested, with hindsight it is possible to build up almost anything and then offer that as part solution to the case. I suppose we are all guilty of that, but most of us are guilty by using events and facts rather than spurious and magical combinations of numbers.
Last night I was going through a more modern case of unsolved murder most foul, and when many years later the police examined the events and circumstances that took place in the years following the murder, they discovered that one neighbour went on to actually murder his wife; another committed a serious sexual offence on a young girl; and letters were found from yet another neighbour to the victim which seemed to indicate his guilt. So, three prime suspects all next door.
Fortunately the police did have an original DNA sample from the killer and by comparison were able to rule out all three men.
That is something to keep in mind in such discussions.
I did note that the original post starting this thread was posted at exactly 3.37, so if you add the 3 to the 37 you get 40 but because it is a leap year take 1 off and lookie there, you got 39!
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 743
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 2:17 pm: | |
Hi,A.P,
Every time dates are mentioned, the same answers are given, ie, juggling with numbers, or a coincedence, all i have submitted are the actual dates of the murders, which all comply with the number of stab wounds on Tabram, and mentioned the dates that could be relevant to Barnett, that being the day they started, to live together, and the day he ceased to, also the very fact that 30th he left her and the 9th she was killed ,
I cannot understand why the dates of the murders, are not considered a pattern.
Regards Richard. |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Inspector
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 241
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 3:49 pm: | |
Hi Richard
Sorry I am not clear on what you mean re chapman. How does 39 come in to that?
********
look this wass getting offensive so I deleted it.
Let me try again
the significane of any number can be incorporated into your theory,
you say the first dates are significant ie the culmalative number of the previous two murders
but if stride and eddowes were killed on the same day the significant number for eddowes is in fact 30 plus 30 six or sixty
anyhow
cheers
Jennifer D. Pegg
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 744
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 4:08 pm: | |
Hi Jennifer,
Lets simplfy this,
First of all, I am simply mentioning the significance of the dates, I am not alone on this , many people over the years , have argued this matter.
We do not know for certain , if Stride was killed by 'Jack', by killing chapman on the 8th september, the next murder, should have occured on the 31st , but as there are 30 days in that month, the 30th of the 9th is suffice.
With respect to any one reading this thread, how can confusion, be a issue, the timetable of events is fact.
Jennifer , your issue may be a good pointer to stride being killed by another person, but it matters not, they were both killed on the 30th, and the explanation being, that no mutilation was posible on Stride, therefore he killed another.
I am astonished, that the dates of these murders do not register with readers of this thread.
Regards Richard.
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Bob Hinton
Inspector
Username: Bobhinton
Post Number: 181
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 8:11 am: | |
Dear Richard,
Once again you are taking a series of events and manipulating them to fit your theory.
For example look at the Polly Nichols murder. You say it was committed on the 31st of August, the 8th month, and thus by adding 31 and 8 together you get 39. Because this number fits your theory you say 'There you are then'. But I can add the same numbers together and get 3.
3+1+8=12
1+2=3
You add the two main numbers together and get 39, I have added all the individual integers together and get 3, each method is equally viable. It is interesting to note that in Black Magic circles my method is used to arrive at a magic number.
You cannot just pick those events that fit your theory and disregard all others. For example what happens if you start to add in the actual time of the murder? What happens if you add in the year?
Keep looking
Bob |
Ronald James Russo Jr.
Police Constable
Username: Vladimir
Post Number: 8
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 10:15 am: | |
Richard,
An interesting coincidence.
One thing though, if Tabram were killed in a frenzy, would the killer (Now Frenzied) be able to keep track of how many stab wounds he inflicted upon poor Martha? And why 1 left handed, 38 right handed? Why use 2 different weapons?
Now that is 1+38+2=41.
I just do not get it.
Vlad |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 745
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 2:39 pm: | |
Hi,
First of all, I am not intentionly trying to fit these numbers into my theory, they fit without forcing them in.
Bob.
I am talking about the relevant dates of these murders, taking in account of the 39 stab wounds inflicted on Tabram.
There is one more intresting point to make, for it is very strange.
The last victim was known as Mary Jane Kelly.
known also as Marie Jeanette.
The latter name as a affectionate , by Joseph Barnett..
The above three names add up to 39, infact three seperate thirteens.
You infact can use either name of kelly, add it to Joseph Barnett, and take the number of the room , she was killed in to make 39.
Remember, I am merely stating facts, as recorded, and just one letter out , demises the theory, but like the dates of the murders , there is no piece that does not fit.
All speculative of course?.
Regards Richard. |
Frank van Oploo
Inspector
Username: Franko
Post Number: 224
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 4:19 pm: | |
Hi Richard,
Although your 39 theory is based on facts, days, months etc., the pattern you’ve been talking about, the pattern or logic in how the number 39 is reached each and every time, isn’t there.
- With Tabram it’s the number of stabs.
- With Nichols it’s the day and month she was killed
- Then suddenly the day Chapman was killed is added to the day one of the next victims were killed, leaving out the month.
- Then the day and month of Stride or Eddowes are used a second time.
- With Kelly it’s the day she was killed and the day Barnett moved out.
- Then you give significance to the day (not the month) Barnett and Kelly started living together by adding it to the day he moved out, leaving out the month.
- Then you bring in room numbers.
- Then you add the letters of Mary’s names to Joseph Barnett’s and a room number, in which case ‘Mary Jane Kelly’ and ‘Marie Jeanette’ may be used, one with and one without a surname.
Although it’s interesting that the number 39 is reached every time, I can’t discover a pattern here. In fact, in about two minutes time I’ve managed to come up with some examples of 39 of my own.
For instance, George Hutchinson came forward on 12 November 1888. Now, if we would add the 1 and 2 of 12 November to the 1 + 1 of the 11th month we would get 5. If we would add 18 to 8 + 8 of 1888 we would get 34. 5 + 34 = 39.
If we would take the number of letters in the name Hutchinson (10) and add this to the 1 and 2 of the day he came forward (1 + 2 = 3) we would get 13. Hutchinson left Miller’s Court on the night of 8/9 November when the clock struck 3. And 3 times13 makes 39.
The names of Fred Abberline and Walter Sickert are each made up of 13 letters. If we were to add them to the letters of Hutchinson’s name and the 1 and 2 of the day he came forward, we would again get 39.
Now, I’m not trying to make fun of you or anything - I hope you don't see it that way, but the fact that there’s no pattern in the 39 theory and the fact that, as I’ve shown, 39 can be reached quite easily if anybody wants to, makes this theory interesting, but nothing more. But of course this doesn't mean that you aren't free to stick to your theory.
All the best,
Frank
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Leanne Perry
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 1224
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 10:21 pm: | |
G'day Rich,
Franks right. Your 39 theory is interesting and may start a few people that are interested in numerology thinking! But it's too disorganized to believe that the Ripper organized it that way!
LEANNE
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 746
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 3:30 am: | |
Hi,
I Will agree, that one can devise a set of numbers to reach a number, if one sets out to do so, However my theory actually sticks to the murder dates, which was the original idea, and not with respect, rather clever examples.
In the name game I suggested , you have the millers court victims name, the room she was killed in, and also I believe the killers name, of course one could invent any male name consisting of thirteen letters, but that would not be relevant.
Most killers of this type tend to work to a pattern, that would have been prepeared in their minds , from the outset, and I believe our killer, was no exception, nothing complicated he simply ventured out on the relevant dates, and sought a victim, and commmitted the gastly act.
He may have simply saw a pattern in his life, and acted accordingly, who knows what a person of this sanity could have conjured up?.
Richard. |
Mark Starr
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 11:33 pm: | |
Richard:
I think you may have the wrong website. Maybe they have a discussion forum for The Bible Code.
By the way:
J = 10
A = 1
C = 3
K = 11
total = 25
T = 20
H = 8
E = 5
total = 33
R = 18
I = 9
P = 16
P = 16
E = 5
R = 18
total = 82
grand total = 140 (which cannot be factored by 39)
Shouldn't that be enough to totally disprove your theory? Or do you have another number explanation?
If you are looking for numerological significance, try searching in works where you already know for a fact that the author put it in -- for example in the music of Johann Sebastian Bach.
Regards,
Mark Starr
PS: BTW, what is the numerical value of SICKERT?
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Dan Norder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 6:32 am: | |
Richard wrote:
"I cannot understand why the dates of the murders, are not considered a pattern."
The dates may be a pattern, in that they were holidays or weekends, but adding them all up in any old hodge podge way with anything else that comes to mind to come up with a specific number is not discovering a pattern, it's inventing one.
What I cannot understand is why you insist on bringing this up over and over again or why you've started yet another new thread for it after you already have created more than one on this topic... How many different threads do you need to say the same thing in? Can't you just repost in one of your old threads? |
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