| Author |
Message |
    
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2020
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 6:19 am: | 
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Hi Harry,
Mike spoke mostly the truth - in a general sort of way?? Yes that is a rare view.
What do you mean by 'mostly'? He never told anyone who really wrote the diary, unless you believe Anne did. And he told so many conflicting stories about its origins that, by definition, they had to be 'mostly' untrue, if not all of them. And not one single tale was ever verified, otherwise the debate would have ended before it began.
For what it's worth, I believe Mike has now given up all his one-time claims to know anything about the diary's creation, and has reverted to his original "I feel it's genuine" line.
Love,
Caz
X |
John V. Omlor
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 1687
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 7:10 am: |
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Hi Harry,
I think that if you read RJ Palmer's posts about the diary, especially during the last few months, you'll see that he too has speculated that large parts of MIke's confession might be true and he has offered some specific explanations as to why he feels this way.
If you can't find them through a search, send me a note and I'll point you in their direction. They are worth reviewing, whether you believe Mike or not.
Although Caroline was trying to make a joke, ( I think) about the new Peace Accord, I hope that her post was also indicating that she has agreed to be one of its signators.
If so, I am very pleased that she too has now agreed to the plan not to post on the diary or the watch or anything related to it unless she has some genuinely new information to share with us all.
That's four of us now. Perhaps that will be enough.
Now hoping that we can agree to begin soon, possibly even today,
--John
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Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1305
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 8:28 am: |
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John
That's four of us now. Perhaps that will be enough.
Indeed. Congratulations on a remarkable achievement. I must admit I didn't think it would happen.
Chris Phillips
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Nicholas Smith
Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 39
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 8:46 am: |
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G'day again everyone,
Just from the tone of these latest posts something seems to be working:-) Goodonya's.
I'm still having trouble with that wiring:-( but when I've got the wee beasty working you should be able to hear it at the next C&D meeting:-)
I ran into a couple of old mates in the chat room last night and even though they've stopped posting they still drop by every now and again to see how things are progressing.
Ah wolfy, wolfy, wolfy, what is the matter. The only post you've made on this thread is to have a crack at me. I don't give a stuff mate, crack all you like and I'll fawn all I like, but it ain't gunna get us anywhere is it? That's what this whole truce thing was about. To stop this sort of crap.
We all want new people to come here and express a new view or opinion, but the 'dare I say it' Diary had reached the point where opinions had turned to personal vendettas - that's what was needed to be knocked on the head. Let the discussion go on without the hate, that's all John was trying to say.
So a big hug for everyone and a sloppy kiss for old wolfy.
And don't forget to hug the ones you love - you never know how long they're gunna be with us.
Love
Jules |
Ally
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Ally
Post Number: 1033
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 9:31 am: |
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Whatever happened to that guy who claimed that Anne had approached him in 1970-something about creating a diary about Jack the Ripper.
I know there was huge discussion on this in the archives somewhere, but I can't for the life of me find it.
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David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 983
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 10:18 am: |
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Hi Ally,
Was that a fellow named Steve Powell?
Dave |
Ally
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Ally
Post Number: 1034
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 10:30 am: |
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That could be it Dave. I am hideously suckage at remembering names and dates. I'll do a search and see.
I was wondering what the end outcome of that was.
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David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 985
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 12:05 pm: |
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Howdy Ally,
I don't know what happened, if anything ever did.
Cheers,
Dave |
R.J. Palmer
Chief Inspector
Username: Rjpalmer
Post Number: 688
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 2:20 pm: |
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Dave--Among Mr. Powell's other memories was one of visiting No. 13 Miller's Court long after it had been demolished, while on Donald Rumbelow's tour. Unfortunately, Steve's story about Anne went through several incarnations and thus his memory couldn't be trusted without corroboration. He seems to have enjoyed the 60s. I sent the gentleman the Mike Barrett tape a couple of years ago and never heard back from him. No offense to Steve, who seemed like a good bloke, just unfortunate he had no notes or proof of anykind, and it seemed to me the answer lied elsewhere. RP |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2403
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 2:23 pm: |
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Quite right, Jules.
I shall cover myself with sackcloth and ashes and give myself a damn good hiding with the brandy bottle.
That should curb my rancid tongue for a while.
Thank you for reminding me that I am a peaceful person really. |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 986
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 2:34 pm: |
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"Among Mr. Powell's other memories was one of visiting No. 13 Miller's Court long after it had been demolished, while on Donald Rumbelow's tour."
I've heard Mr. Rumbelow's tour is good, but I didn't know it was that good. Thanks, R.J.
Dave |
R.J. Palmer
Chief Inspector
Username: Rjpalmer
Post Number: 689
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 3:11 pm: |
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Dave--The tour is good. Mr. Rumbelow would have made a fine actor, he's got quite the dramatic touch. I saw him roughly eleven years ago, and at the time Kelly's room was (I think) a bright green set of metal stairs next to a garbage dumpster, but I wouldn't trust my memory either. RP |
Nicholas Smith
Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 41
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 3:41 pm: |
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G'day,
The last I remember of Steve Powell was Leanne and myself trying to track him down in about 2001 I think. Leanne might still have all the info about where he worked, lived etc. Mine got left behind in Oz.
The nurse who Steve dated had an old man who was a copper in the NSW police force, we tried to find him to to find the nurse, but lucked out there too.
I don't know if Leanne gave up the search, but give her a call and she can fill you in.
Jules |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2023
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 4:30 am: |
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Hi Chris,
I will continue to respond to any questions asked, and to anything stated more as fact than speculation, where there is insufficient information to be dogmatic about anything.
Sorry to rock the 'Mike told the truth when he confessed but we mustn't repeat it too much' boat.
Steve Powell's stories didn't add up in the end either, and I believe Shirley dropped her enquiries.
Love,
Caz
X |
Harry Mann
Detective Sergeant
Username: Harry
Post Number: 140
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 5:18 am: |
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Caroline,
Well Mike did say firstly that he had received the diary from another person,and if as it is generally believed,neither Mike nor his wife wrote the text,then it must be true it came from someone else.Or as I believe, returned after the text had been inserted.For I also believe that the Barrets were the family that procured the diary,which is pretty much in line with what has been claimed. |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1309
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 5:18 am: |
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Caroline Morris
Oh well. Maybe we can count you as a "half", if you're really only going to respond, and not initiate?
Chris Phillips
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Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2843
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 6:10 am: |
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Hi,
oh Caroline isn't playing!
Jenni |
John V. Omlor
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 1689
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 7:11 am: |
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Jenni,
Well, let's wait and see.
Given her words yesterday, even those partially in jest, I believe there's still hope.
--John |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2029
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 1:24 pm: |
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Hi Chris,
If I initiate anything, without providing any snippets that haven't appeared on the casebook before (like, for example, the correct details of Crashaw's works published in Liverpool, just a short walk from the Maybrick family home), I'm confident you will be the first to clear up after me.
I can't say, hand on heart, that I have never initiated discussions containing only stuff repeated from earlier casebook posts, but I don't think anyone can say, hand on heart, that it's a common trait of mine.
Hi Harry,
...if as it is generally believed, neither Mike nor his wife wrote the text, then it must be true it came from someone else.
Well spotted.
But the rest of your post is pure speculation based on incomplete information.
Only when it has been established who else knew about the diary's existence before it appeared in London, will you be able to start exploring roles, and how and why Mike Barrett came to have such a major one.
Love,
Caz
X |
John V. Omlor
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 1690
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 1:57 pm: |
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Just a note to everyone,
I think people should read the posts on this thread during the upcoming few days very carefully.
Thanks and enjoy the week,
--John |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1614
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 2:30 pm: |
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Hi All
As I recall, Steve Powell's stories improved and got more detailed as he went on, which in itself was suspect. When he first appeared, he stated that he hardly knew Anne Graham and was unsure that she was the nurse in question. Later he was sure it was Anne, and his story line appeared to be that the Diary story was fully formulated in Australia and ready to present to the world. While the story sounded promising, I am not surprised that the Powell lead petered out and that Keith Skinner and Shirley Harrison would conclude that Powell's tale did not hold water.
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
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Harry Mann
Detective Sergeant
Username: Harry
Post Number: 142
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 4:54 am: |
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Caroline,
Not pure speculation.Rather informed suspicion,leading to confirmed belief. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2033
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 6:16 am: |
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Hi Harry,
Informed suspicion, based on your current information, which is, as I said, incomplete. When you are finally in a position to see all the missing jigsaw pieces and fit them into the puzzle, only then will you know whether your suspicion led to your belief being confirmed - or thrown into confusion.
Hi Chris,
Many thanks for your observations on the Powell episode, which we described in Ripper Diary as 'a long and distracting diversion'.
I agree with your take on it.
The diary, for better and worse, has attracted - and continues to attract - some extremely colourful and eccentric personalities.
We will get to the bottom of it one day, despite all the distractions along the way that would have us go down blind alleys - or stop asking questions at all.
Love,
Caz
X |
John V. Omlor
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 1691
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 7:27 am: |
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What Chris and Caroline have said about "the Powell episode" raises an interesting question I have not seen asked concerning this guy.
Why would he do it?
Why would someone come here and go public with such an obvious hoax story? Why show up and say he knew stuff when he also had to know that he would be asked details and he'd have to lie and would be found out?
There wasn't any real hope for any serious money from such a story.
There wasn't much chance he'd become famous or anything.
So why go to all the bother of performing his little charade and producing this hoax in front of us all?
Would someone actually take the time to produce such a hoax story, not for money, not for fame, but just for their own perverse and inexplicable reasons?
Steve, I mean.
Just "asking questions,"
--John |
Ally
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Ally
Post Number: 1035
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 7:35 am: |
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Honestly, in thinking it over, I am not too concerned about apparent discrepancies in memory. I have severe memory problems when it comes to dates, especially years. I know certain things happened, I couldn't necessarily tell you when they happened and if I told you when, it might be totally wrong but would be a best guess.
As for his story embellishing over the years, I would like to see specific instances of how it embellished. Did he add outlandish detail or did he remember more detail. Either way leads to suspicion, but I would be interested in knowing whether the core of his story was still true.
He could have totally embellished in the wake of "spotlight" but that doesn't mean there wasn't a kernel of truth.
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John V. Omlor
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 1692
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 7:49 am: |
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I suppose that's true, Ally.
I seem to recall when he first showed up here that he was quite polite but really wanting to tell someone his story. Maybe he knew some things but couldn't recall others and that made his story weak in the end.
I don't know, but it's an interesting thought.
Other than Shirley and Keith, did anyone else, anyone not directly involved in writing and selling a book on the diary, thoroughly investigate his claims? I think that might be interesting to know.
If anyone knows for sure, I'd be grateful to hear about it.
--John
PS: On the other hand, the lesson of the recent Greek text message hoaxer might be relevant on this thread as well.
(Message edited by omlor on August 18, 2005) |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1615
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 10:16 am: |
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Hi John
Your mention of other hoaxers I think answers your question for you as to why Powell would have done what he did, if he was making the story up. I really do think some people like getting a rise out of other people, to get some attention. It doesn't have to be for fame or fortune, but just simply to hoodwink others for a while. Just to prove that Sir Jim is not the only one who thinks themselves "clever". 
All my best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
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John V. Omlor
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Omlor
Post Number: 1693
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 10:35 am: |
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Hi Chris,
You write:
"I really do think some people like getting a rise out of other people, to get some attention. It doesn't have to be for fame or fortune, but just simply to hoodwink others for a while."
I think you're right. 
--John |
Nicholas Smith
Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 44
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 8:23 pm: |
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G'day Chris, John, everyone,
There could also be the possibility he opened his mout at the wrong time not realising what interes he would have generated.
I met a woman in a club over in Canberra a couple of years ago and she reconed she had seen other photos of MJK. I told a couple of people about and that I had teed up another meeting with her. When she turned up, she couldn't remember which 'BOOK' she had seen them in, but still stayed staunch to her fact that she had seen other photos.
I didn't see her again and I had made a total fool of myself (I'm used to it) by telling others that I was about to get my hands on some other photos.
Such could be a similar scenario with the elusive Steve.
Jules |
Harry Mann
Detective Sergeant
Username: Harry
Post Number: 147
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 6:13 am: |
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Caroline,
As I am 78 years old this coming birtday,It's almost a certainty I will never see all the pieces.
Your post though,speaks in a confidence that there will be a revelation one day,and I hope your expectations are well founded.
The one revelation that I do not expext to be fulfilled,is the name of the person who wrote the words in the book. |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 664
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 12:07 pm: |
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RJ - you remember correctly about the site of #13. It is indeed just to the left of a set of metal stairs. No dumpster next to it now, though. Most nights I have an empty pallette (good stage) or a bloody great fork-lift stuck in front of it.
Yes, Don is good. After the amount of life he has spent doing it he better be!
But then SO AM I......!!!!!!
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1619
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 1:48 pm: |
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Hi Jules, Philip et al.
Philip and Jules, will you be in Brighton for the Ripper conference in October? Who else will be there? Speak up! I will be there. 
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1623
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 3:30 pm: |
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Hi Jules
If your lady with the other pictures of Mary Jane Kelly seen "in a book" was on the level, it sounds as if she is confusing pictures of other murders with the Mary Jane Kelly murder pictures. The only somewhat different MJK pic that I know about was published in Alexandre Lacassagne's Vacher l'Eventreur et les crimes sadiques (1899). Lacassagne published one photo each of Kelly and Eddowes - they are different prints of the same photographs. Lacassagne's French text and a translation are in The First Jack the Ripper Victim Photographs by Robert McLaughlin which was supposed to come out from Zwerghaus Books in October 2003 but I think is still to appear... Robert promised me a copy and I haven't seen it yet. 
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
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George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 666
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 8:22 pm: |
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Chris
Ditto about RM's book. With any luck he'll have them for Brighton. Sorry - just saw a pig fly past the window.
Of course I am coming to Brighton. Either that or I do my talk by video link.
In regards to the CE photo in Lacassagne, it was thought for many years that it was a 'rare' image hitherto unseen, but Stewart Evans has shown me his copy and I am certain it is the full-length Golden Lane shot in reverse with some touch-up work done to her hair which makes it look positively Gorgonesque. However, the thing about said book is that the MJK image is much clearer than the ones we see today.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2039
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 4:29 pm: |
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Hi Harry,
Your post though,speaks in a confidence that there will be a revelation one day,and I hope your expectations are well founded.
The one revelation that I do not expext to be fulfilled,is the name of the person who wrote the words in the book.
There speaks a wise man.
My expectations are as well founded as a very well founded thing. 
Love,
Caz
X
PS Can't wait for Brighton. I love that place almost as much as I love Liverpool. |
Nicholas Smith
Detective Sergeant
Username: Diddles
Post Number: 56
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 6:53 am: |
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G'day guys,
I think I'm too late for the Brighton thing and I'd probably get lost trying to find the place. So far I've managed to get lost on a straight road just around the corner from mum's place.
I am definitely gunna make it to some of the meetings though, I've just got to get directions on how to get there from here.
Take care
Jules |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2336
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 10:18 am: |
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Hi Philip,
SSush.. Shhh....fingers strictly on lips--- re post 666-it wasnt a pig you saw it was a male on his way to conference-thinks he is
in luck to see Caz in her Bunny Suit!
psst!I am dealing with him!
Nats
x |
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