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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 896
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 8:46 pm: | 
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I have recently read a book by Dr. Ray Neff and Leonard Guttridge called DARK UNION which is about the events leading to Lincoln's Assassination. The book (printed by John Wiley in 2003) reads well, but is full of suspect "facts". It would be like Fred Spiering's book PRINCE JACK, but that I have more respect for Guttridge as a historian of the American Navy, and or various Arctic exploration disasters (the "Jeannette" expedition and the "Greeley" or "Lady Franklin's Bay" expedition).
What happened is this. Dr. Neff, an amateur historian of the Civil War has collected a vast amount of paper and photographs challenging the normal view of the assassination (i.e., that Booth acted alone, and his plot was aimed at Lincoln, Seward, Vice President Johnson, maybe General Grant, maybe Secretary of War Stanton). Neff takes up after the so-called "Eisenchiml" thesis (named for Dr. Otto Eisenchiml, the author of two books: WHY WAS LINCOLN MURDERED? and IN THE SHADOW OF LINCOLN'S DEATH). This thesis was that the mover of the conspiracy (although Eisenchiml never specifically said so) was Secretary of War Edwin MacMaster Stanton, working with the Radical Republicans. Although the theory has been repudiated over the years, it still raises it's head (in a way like the "Royal Conspiracy" raises it's head in our field of interest).
Dr. Neff insists that Stanton was part of a conspiracy involving Northern businessman and southern planters and Confederate officials that
wanted to swap food and supplies for southern armies for cotton, needed up North to bolster a strained war economy. Lincoln was in favor of the trade (surreptitiously, of course), but met resistance by Radicals led by Stanton, although (here there is one weakness of Neff's theory) they subsequently were willing to go along with the various southern schemes to kidnap Lincoln as he would be out of Washington for a couple of weeks and the Radicals could consolidate their control of Congress and Reconstruction policies.
I purchased the book about a week ago in Barnes & Noble in Manhattan, and finished it last night. The reasons I bought it were that Guttridge (who wrote the manuscript) has always been an interesting writer, and (secondly) I hoped there would be references to one of the suspects (guess which, Malta Joe). Dr. T. did not turn up in the book. As I read it, I cringed at the shoddy end of chapter notes, and I looked it up in the internet as well. It has been roundly attacked by such Civil War scholars as Edward Bearns and James McPherson. But Neff and Guttridge stick to their guns.
Among other points that are brought out are that John Wilkes Booth did not die at Garrett's Barn on April 26, 1865 but was not ever in the barn - a former member of John Mosby's raiders (and one who became a double agent for Stanton) named James W. Boyd was the man who died there. Booth fled to India and made a large fortune there. Any other points about the theory I would welcome you to just read the book, or to read the critiques by Bearns and McPherson.
But I am curious about what most of us feel concerning this assassination. So therefore I have decided to open up this thread to see what developes.
Best wishes,
Jeff Bloomfield |
Rodney Gillis
Detective Sergeant
Username: Srod
Post Number: 55
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 8:50 pm: |
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Hi Jeff,
I think Booth's final words sum up this theory, "Useless,useless."
By the way, I was thinking of scary places since we are so close to Halloween. I think Booth's grave at the Greenmount Cemetery on Greenmount Ave. is about one of the scariest places I know for several reasons. I'd sooner visit Poe's grave at Greene & Fayette any day. |
Donald Souden
Chief Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 779
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 9:18 pm: |
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Rodney,
To each his own, I suppose. Personally, I would gladly spend the whole night at any grave site than spend five minutes with an Internal Revenue Service caseworker. Talk about frightening!
Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 898
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 5:58 pm: |
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Hi Rodney and Don,
Booth's last words does sort of sum up the results of his killing Lincoln, as well as his attempt to escape or reignite the Civil War. It also (as I feel you mean) makes one think of this particular theory about Stanton and the Radicals. Another book, William Hanchett's THE LINCOLN MURDER CONSPIRACIES, did a fine job knocking this theory, but Neff and Guttridge attack it (one time, by the way) for what they term shoddy research. It is only shoddy if you accept the so-called facts that Neff and Guttridge claim they found.
But that does not kill this theory. I think, like the Royal Ripper Theory/Aristocrats-Masonic Ripper Theory, it has a life of it's own based on dislike of the targeted so-called villain(s).
With the Royal Rippers etc Theory, we are sympathetic to the poverty of the victims, and dislike the huge wealth and prestige of the Royal Family, the court, and the rich (even the professionals like Sir William Gull). With the Stanton - Radical Republican theory, there is anger at the iron-fisted Secretary of War, and at the punishing view of the defeated South pursued by the Radical Republicans. What is forgotten is that the defeated South favored slavery and would reinstitute "Jim Crow" in it's place (with the approval of the North).
I agree with Don, five minutes with an IRS caseworker would scare me too. As for the grave (or supposed grave) of Booth, I've never seen it or Poe's. On the other hand, I have walked by the Player's Club near Gramercy Park in Manhattan. That was Edwin Booth's townhouse, originally.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Rodney Gillis
Detective Sergeant
Username: Srod
Post Number: 56
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 5:48 am: |
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Hi Jeff,
I lived in and around Baltimore for 37 years (I'll be looking forward to coming bck for the conference) and when I thought of Booth at Greenmount, it conjured up many memories. The cemetery is very large and very old. What is scary is that that area is in a really bad part of town. I would imagine it to be sort of like Whitechapel during Jack's time. I worked as a delivery driver right before I left Baltimore and I can remember timing my driving so I wouldn't hit a red light when I was near Greenmount. Poe on the other hand, rests in a much safer part of town. I wonder if someone still leaves a toast at his grave on Poe's birthday as someone has done for so many years.
As for the Lincoln conspiracy theory, I don't buy it for several reasons. Lincoln had changed his position on several issues during the war and there is no reason to think that he would not alter his plans for reconstruction when huge injustices were brought to his attention. As for Stanton, he was a sometimes dark figure but he worked well with Lincoln. I would think someone like Thaddeus Stevens would be more passionate about the urgency for Radical Reconstruction.
I've never been a big fan of conspiracy theories because it is against human nature to keep secrets and I believe a whopper of this size would have come out sooner than later. Andrew Johnson would have loved to have had the conspiracy information before his impeachment.
Rod |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 902
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 2:17 pm: |
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Hi Rod,
I've been to Baltimore only once, a decade ago, and I saw the acquarium and passed Camden Yards. It's odd that in all these years living in New York City, I never took an Amtrak down there to look at the sites connected to Poe, to Mencken, or to Babe Ruth. I did not even attend the conference last year, although I am thinking of it this year.
I am also aware of a similar famous cemetary in Brooklyn that is there for the visitor to see, but is in a bad area. It is Green-wood, wherein are buried Boss Tweed, Lola Montez, and Frank Morgan (yeah, the "Wizard of Oz") among others. If you go, make sure you are in a party, and park the car as safely as possible.
Most conspiracy theories are hard to swallow because of the twisting of logic to make every point match. Even when there is a genuine conspiracy (the bombplot against Hitler) it actually was limited to those Wehrmacht officers involved, but Hitler and his goons took advantage of it to implicate all types of people who were not involved, out of vengeance against them.
What particularly gets me about this new spin on the Stanton-Radical Republican conspiracy is the attempt to link it with the Confederates, with big business, and even with Andrew Johnson and his staff (which would have so tied Johnson with the Radicals that impeachment would never have occurred).
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Rodney Gillis
Detective Sergeant
Username: Srod
Post Number: 58
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 4:41 pm: |
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Hey Jeff,
Lola Montez . . .now there was woman. You know, I have never been to Brooklyn. I really should go for the experience if nothing else.
When I lived in Baltimore, I used to take my son to Camden Yards to see the O's until it got too expensive. When I was a little boy, the O's (and Colts) played at Memorial Stadium.
If you join us for the conference next year, make it a point to visit Poe. It's a tiny cemetery, you can't miss his grave. Hope to see you!
Rod |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 904
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 8:45 pm: |
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Hi Rod,
I am still hoping to go in April. If I do, I will try to see Poe's grave. If anyone's willing to try it maybe Booth's too, but probably less likely if the area is unsafe.
I know what your youthful feeling about the Memorial Stadium is like. My mother was brought up in Brooklyn, and loved Ebbett's Field and the Dodgers. And I have lived two and a half miles from Shea Stadium since the Mets came there in 1964.
If you do ever get to Brooklyn, aim for Green-wood, Prospect Park, the Brooklyn Museum (which has one of the world's best collection of Egyptian Antiquities and another great collection of impressionist art), the Aquarium, and Coney Island (in the summer, of course).
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Phil Hill
Chief Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 975
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 1:07 pm: |
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Jeff - do you really think that:
...the Royal Ripper Theory/Aristocrats-Masonic Ripper Theory... has a life of it's own based on dislike of the targeted so-called villain(s)... With the Royal Rippers etc Theory, we are sympathetic to the poverty of the victims, and dislike the huge wealth and prestige of the Royal Family, the court, and the rich (even the professionals like Sir William Gull)... [My underlining.]
I don't see how personal prejudices of that sort help us at all. Surely a theory should stand up on its own merits, not be supported or dismissed on the basis of personal likes or dislikes?
The 1880s were indeed a period of a vast difference between rich and poor, but the same was true in the US and elsewhere. If one goes around basing a view of history on one's social or political agenda, surely one will never understand the past?
Perplexed,
Phil |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 909
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 7:09 pm: |
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Hi Phil,
I am sorry if my comment perplexed you, but I do believe that there is a type of social/class anger that is at the base of the continued fascination with the Royal Theory.
My reasons for this is the following:
1) The victims apparently are all poor - frequently whores (if some may have been trying to get out of the prostitute class).
2) The ideas thrust about regarding the various Royal Conspiracy theories are connected with protecting the monarchy and the social groups around it. These include:
a) The Royal Family (Eddy, Bertie, Victoria)
b) The national religion (connected to the Royal Family by the ruler being "defender of the Faith") from an illegal, heir producing marriage with a non-Anglican wife (usually a Catholic).
c) The involvement of the aristocrats and upper stratum of society in a cover-up. Not only aristocrat members of court, but also government and police officials. It even is stretched to include the Masons - but note it is the upper crust Masons. I have yet to see a theory where people in the lower classes who are Masons are involved in the cover-up (unless Netley was a Mason - was he?)
This does seem unfair - I admit it. Sorry if it does, and I did not mean to give offense by saying it.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Phil Hill
Chief Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 980
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 2:09 am: |
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Jeff, you didn't give offense and I don't care whether what you say is unfair. I just see supporting a theory on those grounds as nonsense from the perspective of genuine historical interest.
Phil |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2182
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 5:17 am: |
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Hi Phil,
I agree that it's nonsense for anyone to plump for a 'royal' answer to the mystery, simply because it would be good to see the monarchy come down a peg or two hundred.
Unfortunately, other people's personal prejudices and preferences aren't enough in themselves to allow us to conclude there was no royal connection whatsoever. Only facts, like the ones you have described elsewhere, can do that.
The trouble is, every theory, argument or opinion (and that's all we have, whenever we depart from a simple regurgitation of facts), whether it concerns a named suspect or just the kind of man we think Jack was, is based on, or influenced by the personal prejudices and preferences of the theorist.
It's just that there are few more obvious than the one that says the royals were involved because they 'deserve' to come a cropper.
Sorry everyone, back to the topic in hand...
Love,
Caz
X |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 912
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 8:30 pm: |
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Hi Caz and Phil,
Well, there is a relatively simple way of testing how valid my comment might be - at least regarding the Royal Conspiracy theories. Take three figures who pushed it:
a) Joe Sickert
b) Stephen Knight
c) Dr. Thomas Stowell
Has anyone ever looked into the backgrounds of the three men to see:
1) what was their political feelings
2) what personal grudges might they have harbored against the establishment.
3) whether they ever favored a different form of social order to that of present day Britain.
I suspect nobody ever did look into it. When (back 1970) Stowell came out with his mysterious "S", he did not precisely say it was Eddy. Later he even denied it was. Was Stowell a firm supporter of the social order of his day? Was he satisfied with how that social order had recognized whaterver professional merit he had displayed? Or did he feel snubbed by it's intricate webs and networks.
Joe Sickert's claims were striking in two ways. He was claiming he was the descendant of one of Britain's leading early 20th Century painters, and he was a descendant of Queen Victoria's grandson (who would have been King). But the story he told suggested a darker side of the Royal Court, complete with homicidal Court doctors and carriage drivers, and government officials who looked the other way, or assisted in the cover-up of a sexual/marriage indescretion. None of this suggests he thought highly of that court and it's supporters.
As for Stephen Knight, what are we to make of the numerous mistakes and lies he spread in order to build up his theory about a massive Masonic murder conspiracy? Did Knight ever belong to the Masons? Did he try to join but get turned down?
Historically, I know of only one attempt by a Mason to use being a Mason as a last ditch trick to avoid being hanged - Frederick Seddon in 1912 reminding Mr. Justice Bucknill that they were both brother Masons (though not from the same lodge). It shook up Bucknill (who was known for his heavy involvement in the order), and he was far more upset at Seddon's bringing it up than Seddon was.
Bucknill, gently, reminded Seddon that the organization did not countenance murder, and suggested that the convicted man use his remaining time to make his peace with "the great architect of the universe". Seddon said he would, before he was led away.
Aside from that I have never seen any other comment about Masonic killers (although Dr. Pritchard was a 33rd degree or some high degree Mason). It is like a side issue in those murder cases where it pops up. But Knight put it center stage - was he just using it for convenience (because so many leading figures in Victorian society and the court were Masons) or did he have some grudge against them?
I don't know if you ever thought of any of this, but these matters do make me think about what the validity of their theories are worth. You can destroy the bones, blood and sinews of what they presented (many have already), but why did they go in those particular directions?
Best wishes,
A curious Jeffrey |
Phil Hill
Chief Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 983
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 1:53 am: |
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Good points Jeff.
Knight certainly had a perfervid hatred of the masons - he published another book, "The Brotherhood" that was very very anti freemasonry.
I think Joe Gorman was just simple and initially at least regailing family lore. Gradually though I think he started to embroider the memories when he realised they might be a source of income.
Phil |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2192
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 6:15 am: |
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Good post, Jeff.
Yes, it might be instructive to learn what all those favouring a royal ripper or Masonic mystery actually feel towards these institutions.
Love,
Caz
X |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 915
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 9:20 pm: |
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Hi Phil and Caz,
Thanks for the compliment about the response. But now let's return to the theme of this thread - Lincoln's Assassination and the conspiracy theories.
What are your opinions?
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Stanley D. Reid
Chief Inspector
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 531
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 8:57 pm: |
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Hi Jeff et. al
I see that there are two Lincoln movies due out in 2007. One, entitled Manhunt, is about the assassination and its aftermath and stars Harrison Ford. Wonder what they'll come up with.
Best wishes,
Stan |
Andy and Sue Parlour
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tenbells
Post Number: 137
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 3:46 pm: |
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Re the above post's on the Lincoln saga.
I used to live in the small fishing village of Brightlingsea, which is on the Essex coast.
A friend of mine purchased his house from an elderly gentleman named Booth in the mid 1970's in Tower Street, Brightlingsea. When Mr Booth moved out he asked my friend not to give anyone his new address and he would call to collect any post etc. My friend jokingly asked if he was on the run. Mr Booth went on to explain that his great grandfather was the brother of the Booth who assassinated Abraham Lincoln. He had left America soon after the killing because of a witch-hunt for any relations of John Wilkes Booth. Many Booth's left the USA. Some came to England and his ancestor ended up in this small Essex village. Booth went on to say he had had many people come to the house over the years etc once they found out about his families past.
AWP |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 955
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Hi Andy and Sue,
I'm sorry being two weeks late on responding, but I just noticed this interesting comment.
Booth had three brothers, the best remembered was Edwin Booth - who had a daughter. Edwin never moved from the U.S. He retired from the stage in anguish at Wilkes' crime, but within a year his friends told him he should return to acting. The night he returned to the stage he got a standing ovation from the audience when he reappeared. In later years Edwin received public support from Robert Lincoln because in November 1864 he saved Robert Lincoln in Boston, Massachusetts, when the latter fell on a track as a train approached at the railway station. Edwin would retain America's leading theatrical personality until he died in 1893 (ironically, the day of his funeral part of Ford's Theatre in Washington collapsed killing over two dozen government employees - they used the building as a government storehouse after 1865). Edwin's home in Gramercy Park is the famous Player's Club, and it's initial members included his friends Mark Twain and General William Tecumseh Sherman.
Edwin's brother Junius Brutus II remained active in acting (principally in the Western United States), and became a producer. His son, Junius Brutus III murdered his wife and committed suicide around 1912.
There was a fourth brother who left the stage, but I don't know if he left the U.S. It's possible, but I am not sure.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Eduardo Zinna
Detective Sergeant
Username: Eduardo
Post Number: 104
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 1:54 am: |
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Hi Jeff,
You bring memories. I lived for over 25 years at 22nd Street and Second Avenue - a stone's throw away from Gramercy Park. Besides every other place you mentioned there is Pete's Tavern near Gramercy Park where O'Henry wrote The Gift of the Magi. Is Poe's cottage still somewhere in the Bronx? And how about the cemetery where Herman Melville and Bat Masterson are buried? I think it's also in the Bronx. Memories.
Best,
Eduardo |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 1000
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 12:33 pm: |
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Hi Eduardo,
I have to see if Pete's Tavern is still near Gramercy Park. Two other authors (one somewhat forgotten, despite his demise, today, and the other a bit to the south) are connected to the area.
The one towards the south is Washington Irving, for whom Irving Place is named for. I seem to recall that there was some public marker regarding Irving in the area, and Washington Irving High School (with a bust of the author of THE SKETCH BOOK and TALES OF THE ALHAMBRA outside it) is in the area.
The less remembered is David Graham Phillips. You probably never heard of him, unless you read about the "muckraker" writers of the Progressive Era (Jacob Riis, Lincoln Steffens, Ida Tarbell, Upton Sinclair, Phillips, Thomas Lawson), who wrote of political and economic problems (read trusts - in Tarbell's case the Standard Oil Monopoly) of the period 1890 - 1913. The best recalled are Riis, Steffens, and Sinclair. Phillips wrote THE TREASON OF THE SENATE, about how (due to the legal indirect election of Senators via the U.S. Constitution) the U. S. Senate was a millionaire's club run for big business and not the common man. The book spurred the amendment for the direct election of Senators. [Ironically, Phillips never realized that the cost for senatorial elections made the Senators the servants of special interest blocks, which was just as bad.]
Phillips wrote fiction, and (for it's day) it was hard-hitting. He wrote one novel that, movie fan that you are, you may have seen the film version with. It was SUSAN LENNOX, HER FALL AND RISE, made in a film in 1932 with Greta Garbo and Clark Gable. It was an economic view of prostitutes.
Phillips also wrote a novel, THE FASHIONABLE WORLD OF JOSHUA CRAIG (I think that was the name), which unfortunately fell into the hands of a lunatic. Fitzhugh Coyle Goldsborough was an eccentric musician (violinist) from a prominent Philadelphia family, who doted on his older sister. He got it into his head that Phillips was basing the character of a shallow, society woman of limited sense on the older sister. In January 1911, as Phillips was leaving his flat near Gramercy Park, Goldsborough shot him multiple times, and then blew out his own brains. Phillips died the day after the shooting.
Except for his contemporary, historian, bibliographer, and novelist Paul Leicester Ford (1860 - 1902; author of THE HONORABLE PETER STIRLING and JANICE MEREDITH) Phillips was the only American writer of that period to be murdered (Ford was shot by his brother Malcolm in a long simmering feud over an inheritance; Malcolm, like Goldsborough, committed suicide).
Gramercy Park is also where Governor (and near President) Samuel Tilden's home is still standing
(the Art Institute of America has it's headquarters there).
Another contact with criminal history is the building (still standing) where the "gentleman Burglar" Gerald Chapman (hanged for killing a policeman in Connecticut in 1925) resided in the teens and early 1920s.
Poe's Cottage is still standing in the Bronx as a museum. The cemetery in the Bronx is Woodlawn. I believe George M. Cohan is born there too.
Hi Stan,
I noticed you mentioned the film being released this year about Booth's fleeing the assassination called MANHUNT, starring Harrison Ford. There is an element of controversy about it that annoys the family of Dr. Samuel Mudd. The film goes into the earlier kidnap plot of Booth, and he did apparently meet Mudd at that time. The family denies Mudd was involved in the kidnap plot as well.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
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